Neutering worry

Hi everyone

I'm new here so please forgive me if this subject has already been discussed.

Our 3 month old male rabbit is due to be neutered next week. I wasn't too worried until the vet told us that there was quite a high risk that we could lose him due to there being no general anaesthetic wholly suitable for rabbits. Now I am worried sick. I'm wondering what to do.

If it weren't for the fact that we have a female rabbit the same age (they are brother and sister) quite honestly I don't think I could go through with this. The vet said to avoid a litter we would obviously have to separate them. However this would cause them more stress because they hate being separated. They play together, sleep together, eat together and create havoc together. They would be miserable if we kept them separately. Also this would be tricky because they are house rabbits and used to running around together all the time wherever we are and we never leave them out unsupervised.

Can anyone give me any advice? Is there anything we should be doing to make sure there isn't a fatal result from the anaesthtic?

Also (I'm sorry to go on like this) another very minor concern is that Nini (the male) has quite a large lump on his nose. Honestly, his nose is enormous. lol (but we still love him). The vet said it was an abnormality but nothing to worry about but I just wanted to know whether anyone else had any experience with their rabbits of lumps and bumps on noses.

Thanks so much in advance for taking the time out to read this.

Hi,

I'm not too sure and if I'm wrong the more knowledgable people may correct me with no harm done, but I was under the impression that a "rabbit savvy" vet would find the best anaesthetic suitable for buns and go from there. Although neutering isn't exactly uncommon for rabbits now, it didn't become a normal practice until fairly recently and techniques are still being perfected.

I'd also suggest getting your doe spayed. Without being spayed there is an 85% risk that by the age of five she will have developed uterine cancer or an abnormal and extermely dangerous mass or abnormality in her uterus. Its not worth the risk, and she'll be happier, less territorial, and generally it will enhance her temperament.

The only thing you can do really is make sure your boy is healthy before you take him, and DO NOT by any means stop feeding him before the op - rabbits cannot vomit and are therefore not at risk from vomiting due to the anaesthetic. Also, if you were to starve a bun for 24 hours and then add to that the stress of neutering, he may go into stasis and need extensive treatment to get him back into normal health.

I'm afraid I can't help you with the other issue, about the lump on his nose.. I'm sure someone else will be able to though. Good luck

I have a brother and sister also, and had Bob neutered as soon as possible, so they could happily live together. Although the risk is slightly higher for bunnies than say cats, it really isn't significant for buns who are otherwise healthy, and their quality of life afterwards is so much better, that it really is worth doing.

Remember to keep them separated for a while after the op as males can still get females pregnant...I think you keep them separated for 2 weeks? Can't quite remember, but I am sure someone on here will know.

I also had my female spayed a year after to prevent uterine cancer, and to put her out of the misery of nest building/false pregnancies. Again, it always causes a concern when any animal goes under anasthesia, but it is a small risk and is definitely worth taking for the health and well-being of the bun.

Amanda x

I can understand your concerns and I too would worry if my vet had said that to me, I think if I were you I would ask your vets how many neuters and speys they have actually done and what their success rate is. The RWA do a very good 'question list' when looking for rabbit savvy vets :wink: . If the answer to this question to your vets is a low number on both accounts, I would recommend that you look for another vet :wink: Took me nearly a year to find the vets I have now who answered yes to all of my questions :lol: :lol:

If you give your location, some-one on here might be able to recommend a rabbit savvy vet who has many a success in the neutering/speying area :wink:

Hi - and welcome to the forum! Putting any animal under GA is always a risk but it shouldn't be "Quite high". I would do as others have suggested and look for another vet who is more confident - I have had 11 boy buns neutered in the last 18months and all have been fine and there are others on here who can testify to much higher numbers than this! I think everyone of us on here worries whenever our rabbits have to go under GA and this is normal but at the same time you need to be confident that they are in the best hands.
Like Denny says - if you let us know what area you are in someone is bound to know a good vet to recommend.

Totally understand your worry! My Albert is being neutered right now! I think the advice above is right - find a rabbit-savvy vet who will reassure you rather than put the fear of God into you!

We had Midnight spayed last year and it changed her temperament for the better - immeasurably. We need Albert neutered as he is quite aggressive and we want to bond the two.

Good luck with your buns, and with finding a good vet.

It is worrying but neutering is safer than it has ever been.
Also boys are easier to do than girls so there is a little less risk attatched.
I would be concerned, however, about what your vet has said as it may reflect the fact that he is not very experienced or familiar with rabbit neutering.
As someone else suggested it would be a good idea to ask how many rabbits your vet has done and what his mortality rate is. I think the nationally average is around 2%?
Some other good questions to ask him wold be;
-should the rabbit be starved pre op? - the answer should be a definite no!
-do you give painkillers as standard procedure?

I wouldn't let that vet do the neutering. Rescue routinely neuter and any complications are usual a result of a undiagnosed medical condition e.g. heart problem. The mortality rate should not be high! I guess it must be around 1 in several hundred - less than 1%

Don't pressure you're vet into doing an op they find high risk - find a vet who neuters regularly and doesn't routinely lose patients!

Tam

I echo what everyone has said, i've lost count of the neuters i've had done at my vets (there has been a lot) and I've only had problem with one bun, under GA. She is thought to be old, so that would be the reason, she was brought back round and is now fine (although she could not be neutered) .

There is always a risk when GA's are administered, but I would certainly look into finding a vet that has done a few buns before.

Good luck, I'm sure everything will be fine.

Thankyou so much for all your advice everyone. You can't imagine how much you've all put my mind at rest.

We live in Manchester and currently take them to [edited by me- just in case I was out of line]. We've used this practice for years for our 2 dogs and the vets are lovely and great with the animals. The vet who gave the rabbits their injections did seem confident about doing the op after I started asking him loads of questions. He said he'd done lots of rabbit neutering ops and couldn't remember the last time he lost a rabbit it was that long ago. He also said they use a different anaesthetic to what they used 5 years ago and that he always gives very precise weight specific doses to make sure too much isn't given. He was very good at handling the rabbits too. And he said he has a house rabbit at home. So I would think Nini will be in good hands. I just couldn't understand why he kept saying the risk was so high and kept emphasising it - it was like we'd already lost Nini before we'd even started. I just feel now, after reading all your comments, that he could have put the whole thing a bit more into perspective like the rest of you have done and been a bit more balanced about it.

I will also take your advice and definitely get our girl neutered as well if it'll save her from any furture distress. Incidentally the vet didn't advise us on this although he did say that the operation for females carried less risk because it was shorter. He just said that we didn't have to get the girl spayed if the boy had been neutered. I don't know. Maybe he could see how stressed I was getting over Nini and didn't want the same rigmarole over Etty (our girl).

Once again, thankyou so much to everyone who has responded. I really do appreciate it.

Just one thing - are your buns together at present? They need to be separated from 10 weeks old & for 6 weeks after boy bun is neutered to avoid babies.

OK. I've just read Tamsin's comment. I think maybe I'll check out some other vets.

Angie. Yes our buns are together at the moment basically because when we first got them we were told we had 2 girls. By the time we suspected we in fact had one of each they'd already been together for ages. And more recently when we've tried to keep them separate they make that squeaky distressed noise and start clawing and biting everything. I know what you're thinking - we could end up with a litter of more rabbits which we would have to keep because we couldn't bare to part with them. My concern then would be for Etty's health because she is so young and her ability to care babies. We keep trying to keep them apart but it's that squeaking and clawing that eventually breaks us. On a positive note - Etty won't actually allow Nini to mount her.

:shock: :shock: i know it might hard to seperate them but you are going to have to do it, you will end up with an endless supply of baby buns soon if you don't, Females can fall pregnant soon after giving birth which can also cause distress to her and can make them ill or worse. if you are worried about your buns health that is a reason to seperate them. as long as they are in cages next to each other and can see and smell each other they will be fine

plus it only takes a second to make babies when it comes to buns :wink:

Yes, unfortunately rabbits hide pregnancy well so you are unlikely to know she's pregnant until the babies arrive. As females can get pregnant as soon as they've given birth that means a second litter is on the way and will arrive when the first litter is 4 weeks old.

Keeping the babies is admirable but can you afford to house 12 baby rabbits keeping in mind that they'll all need neutering as they reach maturity?

At 12 weeks you may just be lucky enough that seperating them now will prevent pregnancy. You can keep them next to each other and provide a teddy each for comfort.

It's difficult but keep in mind pregnancy at such a young age isn't without risks. It's just as heart wrenching if you have to watch the babies die (or even if she eats them - common in first pregnancies) and there is also the risk of death of the mum too.

Where abouts are you? Perhaps someone can recommend a vet?

Tam

Some rabbits have even managed to mate through the bars - its that easy :shock:

Another couple of concerns over what your vet has said
1) It was my understanding that the MALE neuter was much quicker and therfore less risky, not the female :?
2) The risk of uterine cancer in unspeyed does is very high (up to 80 or 90% by the age of 5 I think) and that would be a very good reason to get your girl speyed even if your buck has already been "done".

I agree with Space girl. The female op is more complicated which I suppose is why it costs more. If I had to neuter only one, then I'd opt for having the doe done because of the risk of uterine cancer, but having both done is the ideal option as it will calm all the hormonal behaviour down. I'd be inclined to harden my heart and seperate them now, rather that than an unwanted litter of kits, or let a fight break out between the bonded pair.

My vet told me that modern anaesthetics are expensive for rabbits but ensure a good survival rate compared to 10 years ago. Also she recommended getting the female spayed due to uterine cancer and spaying is a more complicated operation than neutering. If it were me I'd find another vet that's a bit more up to date with rabbit medicine.

If you get your female spayed asap then as soon as she's healed she can be put back with her partner whereas if you only do him you've got to wait 6 weeks to let any sperm go. Please seperate them so you don't end up with a load more bunnies that will need neutering and vaccinating about £100 each.

Cloudyday said:

On a positive note - Etty won't actually allow Nini to mount her.

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:lol: :lol: :lol: she is an intelligent bun, she is probably saying 'on ya bike matey, you will get nothing until you have the snip' :lol: :lol:

Spacegirl said:

Some rabbits have even managed to mate through the bars - its that easy

Click to expand...

Please bear in mind that I am laughing writing this so please do not take this the wrong way but has anyone really witnessed this as I find it hard to believe that this really can happen unless the rabbit is an expert in yoga positions and has a willy the size of an elephant I cannot see how the male could really reach the female considering you have the bars and then one fluffy tail to get past before entry :lol: :lol: :lol: If the bars are that wide in the first place then surely the buns would get through them :?

I will eat my dinner and oppologise profusely if I am wrong :lol: but has anyone got the proof that their buns mated through bars :?:

Denny said:

Cloudyday said:

On a positive note - Etty won't actually allow Nini to mount her.

Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol: she is an intelligent bun, she is probably saying 'on ya bike matey, you will get nothing until you have the snip' :lol: :lol:

Spacegirl said:

Some rabbits have even managed to mate through the bars - its that easy

Click to expand...

Please bear in mind that I am laughing writing this so please do not take this the wrong way but has anyone really witnessed this as I find it hard to believe that this really can happen unless the rabbit is an expert in yoga positions and has a willy the size of an elephant I cannot see how the male could really reach the female considering you have the bars and then one fluffy tail to get past before entry :lol: :lol: :lol: If the bars are that wide in the first place then surely the buns would get through them :?

I will eat my dinner and oppologise profusely if I am wrong :lol: but has anyone got the proof that their buns mated through bars :?:

Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
OK, may be urban legend, but I have heard this said!
Was really just trying to emphasise how easy it is for them to mate if you aren't careful! :lol:

Well the thought of more rabbits doesn't thrill me and putting Etty and the kits through that would be awful. However if it came to it yes we would have to keep them basically because there aren't enough caring rabbit-loving people out there. Unless we found people who were willing to take them as part of their household and not just shove them in a tiny hutch at the bottom of the garden in solitary confinement. If it came to it we'd have to convert a shed or two into sectioned off bunny homes with runs. The cost doesn't bother us. People spend far more on their kids and we don't have kids. But keep your fingers crossed for me that it doesn't come to that!

OK I have read all your posts (thankyou all) and we are going to harden our hearts and separate them when they are in their cage. I'm not sure how this is going to work out because it's going to mean they won't be able to see each other. When they're out and running about it isn't so much of a problem because we're always watching them anyway and they're more interested in the things around them and playing than anything.