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Chronic snuffles Do I need a second opinion?

lauralittleninja

lauralittleninja

Warren Scout
Hi guys , I need some advice on my bunny Frank. He has snuffles and has had this on and off for the 4 years Iv had him.
In the past he has been given a long course of baytril which knocks the symptoms on the head and the longest he has been sneeze free has been about a year .
Since Feb , he has been suffering again and my vet ( who is meant to be the best vet for rabbits at the surgery) just keeps fobbing me off ,or atleast I think so.
She first sent me away with metacam which I know is only pain relief so I went back to ask for antibiotics. Then she gave me a weeks course of septrin which relieved symptoms but as soon as course was finished they came back.
Then she gave me a longer course of septrin which I feel is doing nothing as Frank has quite big sneezing attacks still.
I saw another vet and begged for baytril but he only gave me 7 days worth which again did nothing and they won't give me a long course of it because they say it's not good to use for rabbits as they become ammune.
I went back to vets again Thursday as I'm at my wits end now , and once again Iv been sent away with a large bottle of septrin which will prob last a month or so . Vet also recommended getting a Nebulizer for Frank and doing this a couple of times a week. I asked about swabbing which one vet recommended but then the specialist rabbit vet came in to cast her view and said swabbing is a waste of time, as the bacteria gets so far into the cavities of a rabbits nose that we won't be able to get a good swab .
I feel really fed up and am considering finding another vet to see if I get any more positive response . Or do you think my vet had given me sound advice ?



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lauralittleninja said:
Hi guys , I need some advice on my bunny Frank. He has snuffles and has had this on and off for the 4 years Iv had him.
In the past he has been given a long course of baytril which knocks the symptoms on the head and the longest he has been sneeze free has been about a year .
Since Feb , he has been suffering again and my vet ( who is meant to be the best vet for rabbits at the surgery) just keeps fobbing me off ,or atleast I think so.
She first sent me away with metacam which I know is only pain relief so I went back to ask for antibiotics. Then she gave me a weeks course of septrin which relieved symptoms but as soon as course was finished they came back.
Then she gave me a longer course of septrin which I feel is doing nothing as Frank has quite big sneezing attacks still.
I saw another vet and begged for baytril but he only gave me 7 days worth which again did nothing and they won't give me a long course of it because they say it's not good to use for rabbits as they become ammune.
I went back to vets again Thursday as I'm at my wits end now , and once again Iv been sent away with a large bottle of septrin which will prob last a month or so . Vet also recommended getting a Nebulizer for Frank and doing this a couple of times a week. I asked about swabbing which one vet recommended but then the specialist rabbit vet came in to cast her view and said swabbing is a waste of time, as the bacteria gets so far into the cavities of a rabbits nose that we won't be able to get a good swab .
I feel really fed up and am considering finding another vet to see if I get any more positive response . Or do you think my vet had given me sound advice ?



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Has Frank had any diagnostics at all ? Eg skull radiographs (to assess tooth roots) and/or endoscopic examination of the nasal passages ?

Metacam is actually an anti-inflammatory aswell as an analgesic, so it can have a role to play in the treatment of snuffles. It can help reduce the inflammation within the nasal passages.
 
A nebuliser really helped my Bridge Bun Furby. He was such a good patient though he sat on my lap and let me put the mask on his face. He really seemed to enjoy it as it helped with his breathing. I used to do him a couple of times a day, although the times changed due to my shifts.
 
lauralittleninja said:
Hi guys , I need some advice on my bunny Frank. He has snuffles and has had this on and off for the 4 years Iv had him.
In the past he has been given a long course of baytril which knocks the symptoms on the head and the longest he has been sneeze free has been about a year .
Since Feb , he has been suffering again and my vet ( who is meant to be the best vet for rabbits at the surgery) just keeps fobbing me off ,or atleast I think so.
She first sent me away with metacam which I know is only pain relief so I went back to ask for antibiotics. Then she gave me a weeks course of septrin which relieved symptoms but as soon as course was finished they came back.
Then she gave me a longer course of septrin which I feel is doing nothing as Frank has quite big sneezing attacks still.
I saw another vet and begged for baytril but he only gave me 7 days worth which again did nothing and they won't give me a long course of it because they say it's not good to use for rabbits as they become ammune.
I went back to vets again Thursday as I'm at my wits end now , and once again Iv been sent away with a large bottle of septrin which will prob last a month or so . Vet also recommended getting a Nebulizer for Frank and doing this a couple of times a week. I asked about swabbing which one vet recommended but then the specialist rabbit vet came in to cast her view and said swabbing is a waste of time, as the bacteria gets so far into the cavities of a rabbits nose that we won't be able to get a good swab .
I feel really fed up and am considering finding another vet to see if I get any more positive response . Or do you think my vet had given me sound advice ?



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First off, you can see another vet whenever you want to! Don't let anyone tell you that you have to consult your own vet first about this, or get a referral:

http://findavet.rcvs.org.uk/find-a-vet/referrals-second-opinions-and-changing-practices/

You can always go back to your own vet any time. A new vet will ask for your permission to contact your 'normal' vet to obtain the history and record. It's certainly worth a thought if your long course of Septrin doesn't work.


As Rhianna said, nebulising is really helpful. I use Bisolvon alongside that, and I put my rabbits into a box other than use a mask. That said, when they have needed oxygen I have found they are perfectly OK with a small mask!


My vet has said the same as yours about the nasal swab and to having X-rays :roll: That may be a decision you have to make yourself, dependent on how severe the symptoms become.

There are other antibiotics you can try which I have had success with - injectable penicillins for example. So there's lots of hope yet.

Good luck and I hope you manage to find a vet you can trust xx
 
Thankyou everyone . I think I will invest in A Nebulizer and see if this helps Frank , but I also think that it may be worth me getting a second opinion as I feel i would perhaps like the swabs etc done.
Frank is happy in himself and eating drinking etc but it breaks my heart to see him having a sneezing fit :( incidentally it's normally at night he has these fits , I don't hear him at all in the day ....any ideas why it may be worse at night?


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489352743e373fa6abdb5354684265da.jpg


Here's a little pic of the fluffy sneezer ...just because hehe


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In the past I've used Baytril which didnt work, alongside Biosolven and Metacam, but that changed to Septrin. Long term treatment of all three and now it has past, my vet says it can come back and it could have been a lifelong problem like you have. I think using all three together helped aswell as scrapping dusty bedding and litter, only using in a small litter tray (littertrained house bun).

I found loads of apparently dust free hay are dusty too, and those compressed hay blocks create a floor of tiny bits of dusty hay. The best hay i found that doesnt have him sneezing is Green Oat Hay https://www.thehayexperts.co.uk/green-oat-hay.html It might be just me but i can see the difference.
 
I use ings hay from hayforpets or Timothy hay from Timothy hay.co.uk , which seems to be good quality hay that they enjoy eating . I only use Fitch & newspaper for litter trays too and I keep the house very clean and dust free so he's not inhaling anything that would aggravate him . He's just started sneezing again now :( It's so upsetting to see him like it


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:( I'm sorry your struggling to get it under control in any kind of sustainable way - I've heard this often sadly. Frank is adorable by the way
 
lauralittleninja said:
Thankyou everyone . I think I will invest in A Nebulizer and see if this helps Frank , but I also think that it may be worth me getting a second opinion as I feel i would perhaps like the swabs etc done.
Frank is happy in himself and eating drinking etc but it breaks my heart to see him having a sneezing fit :( incidentally it's normally at night he has these fits , I don't hear him at all in the day ....any ideas why it may be worse at night?


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Click to expand...


I believe that rabbits suffer with allergies (indoor and outdoor - dust, hay, hayfever etc) more than we think they do. I first came arcross an allergic rabbit almost 20 years ago. In the end the vet drew a blank, as we had exhausted all his armoury of antibiotics.

I then managed the issue myself by various means and never had a sneezing fit from the rabbit again :D

If it's an infection, there are several antibiotics you could try, and the nebulising is a really good thing.

I'm glad you are thinking of getting a second opinion. I don't hesitate to do this :D
 
I thought I would just give everyone an update on Frank. I took him to a very good vet who specialises in rabbit medicine . He was very thorough and examined frank all over. He gave Frank a tear duct / nasal flush and then prescribed a month course of baytril.
After the appointment Frank did not sneeze for 2.5 weeks! No runny nose , it was amazing! However the last 3 days frank has started sneezing again at night and has a snuffly runny nose again :( it's always the same nostril too . The vet asked me to return at the end of my course of antibiotics to see what move we can try next , whether to extend the course or try another antibiotic which apparently is injection form .
I really hate all this , I wish Frank would just get better poor thing :(


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lauralittleninja said:
I thought I would just give everyone an update on Frank. I took him to a very good vet who specialises in rabbit medicine . He was very thorough and examined frank all over. He gave Frank a tear duct / nasal flush and then prescribed a month course of baytril.
After the appointment Frank did not sneeze for 2.5 weeks! No runny nose , it was amazing! However the last 3 days frank has started sneezing again at night and has a snuffly runny nose again :( it's always the same nostril too . The vet asked me to return at the end of my course of antibiotics to see what move we can try next , whether to extend the course or try another antibiotic which apparently is injection form .
I really hate all this , I wish Frank would just get better poor thing :(


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Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear that Frank is Snuffly again. Personally I'd give the Vet a call and let him know. He may feel that it would be a good idea to change to an injectable antibiotic now. He may also suggest giving antibiotics via a nebuliser/via nasal drops. Nebulising him 2-3 times a day with sterile saline may also help. As would giving him a mucolytic (Bisolvon) to thin out the mucus and make it easier to drain. I doubt this hot humid weather is helping Frank either, I know it's playing havoc with my sinuses !
 
lauralittleninja said:
I thought I would just give everyone an update on Frank. I took him to a very good vet who specialises in rabbit medicine . He was very thorough and examined frank all over. He gave Frank a tear duct / nasal flush and then prescribed a month course of baytril.
After the appointment Frank did not sneeze for 2.5 weeks! No runny nose , it was amazing! However the last 3 days frank has started sneezing again at night and has a snuffly runny nose again :( it's always the same nostril too . The vet asked me to return at the end of my course of antibiotics to see what move we can try next , whether to extend the course or try another antibiotic which apparently is injection form .
I really hate all this , I wish Frank would just get better poor thing :(


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Click to expand...

Thank you for your update on Frank. So the Baytril worked up to a point? There could be a significant element of allergy involved here, which is always difficult for vets to deal with conventionally.

You could try nebulising, which I have found useful. I use either saline to nebulise with, or bisolvon, which thins the mucous in the nose and helps it pass.

Is Frank sneezing out clear fluid or white discharge?
 
Yea I think the baytril has worked for those 2.5 weeks , I'm still giving him baytril but it doesn't seem to be doing anything now . The discharge is usually clear or white . Do you know where I can buy A Nebulizer and saline from?


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Jack's-Jane said:
I'm sorry to hear that Frank is Snuffly again. Personally I'd give the Vet a call and let him know. He may feel that it would be a good idea to change to an injectable antibiotic now. He may also suggest giving antibiotics via a nebuliser/via nasal drops. Nebulising him 2-3 times a day with sterile saline may also help. As would giving him a mucolytic (Bisolvon) to thin out the mucus and make it easier to drain. I doubt this hot humid weather is helping Frank either, I know it's playing havoc with my sinuses !
Click to expand...


I called the vets yesterday and have made an appointment to return but the vet I like is on holiday for a week so it won't be particularly soon I go back as I don't want to see another vet as this guys really good . I have some bisolven powder at home , what do I do with it? Put it in food ?


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lauralittleninja said:
Yea I think the baytril has worked for those 2.5 weeks , I'm still giving him baytril but it doesn't seem to be doing anything now . The discharge is usually clear or white . Do you know where I can buy A Nebulizer and saline from?


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Click to expand...

Nebuliser - depends on how much you want to pay. I got mine from a local chemist. Omron is a good make. I made a chamber/box for the rabbit to sit in.

You can get the saline also from a chemist - they came in little ampoules. Thumps on here posted a recipe to make your own, with sea salt and water. Perhaps you could PM her for more details of that and nebulising? She's lovely and I'm sure she would help!

Her name is thumps_

She has had a similar issue with her rabbit for some time :)
 
MightyMax said:
Nebuliser - depends on how much you want to pay. I got mine from a local chemist. Omron is a good make. I made a chamber/box for the rabbit to sit in.

You can get the saline also from a chemist - they came in little ampoules. Thumps on here posted a recipe to make your own, with sea salt and water. Perhaps you could PM her for more details of that and nebulising? She's lovely and I'm sure she would help!

Her name is thumps_

She has had a similar issue with her rabbit for some time :)
Click to expand...

Oh Thankyou that's very helpful :)


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lauralittleninja said:
I called the vets yesterday and have made an appointment to return but the vet I like is on holiday for a week so it won't be particularly soon I go back as I don't want to see another vet as this guys really good . I have some bisolven powder at home , what do I do with it? Put it in food ?


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Yes, you can sprinkle a pinch of Bisolvon on his food. I have this nebuliser :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Omron-NE-C28P-UK-NE-C28P-Compressor-Nebuliser/dp/B0081EL4OS

But there are cheaper ones which would probably be perfectly adequate. Mine was given to me by a friend x
 
lauralittleninja said:
I called the vets yesterday and have made an appointment to return but the vet I like is on holiday for a week so it won't be particularly soon I go back as I don't want to see another vet as this guys really good . I have some bisolven powder at home , what do I do with it? Put it in food ?


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I mix a pinch of the powder with echinacea herbal extract and give it with a syringe

https://www.baldwins.co.uk/baldwins-echinacea-angustifolia-herbal-fluid-extract

or even better ..

https://www.baldwins.co.uk/baldwins-echinacea-purpurea-herbal-tincture
 
Oh thanks guys :) how much echinacea would I give ? He's only little (under 2kg) [emoji195][emoji195]


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