Bunny Cataracts - advice on options

iiisecondcreep · May 15, 2015

Hi all,

One of my buns (MJ) has recently developed cataracts in both eyes. The first appeared in November last year and was 'mature' within a week, the second in April and again it was mature within a week. As such MJ lost his sight quite quickly and sadly he is not coping well.

As soon as I noticed the first cataract we contacted our own vet, they had no first hand experience of cataracts in rabbits and as such consulted with the D1ck vet school in Edinburgh. One of the possible causes was EC, however it was decided that as MJ did not exhibit an other symptoms it was unlikely to be EC. We discussed the possibility of surgery and decided that as he was coping with just one eye we would wait and go down the route of surgery if the other eye developed a cataract and have both done at the same time.

He saw the vet within a week of the second cataract developing, by which point he had lost 200g (10% of his body weight). He was referred to the D1ck vet and we had an appointment a few days later. He was admitted for the day and underwent blood tests, EC tests, an opthalmic exam and a thorough check of his teeth. His teeth were fine (the vet is positive that his weight loss is a result of losing his eyesight - unfortunately this is now reflected in his appetite whereas at the time he was eating relatively normally). The opthalmic exam revealed that his retinas still respond to light and as such he would be suitable for surgery. The EC test came back strongly positive (if only we had had him tested earlier

). He has now finished the EC treatment and been retested (awaiting results) The D1ck vet school do not do cataract surgery so we were referred to a specialist in Edinburgh - Batchelor, Davidson and Watson.

We had the consultation with B,D&W a week ago today and I am not entirely comfortable with the situation at the moment. This is what I learned:
-The vet advised that they have never performed this surgery on a rabbit (I do not know how many surgeries they have performed on rabbits at all)
- The operation takes several hours
- They will only do one eye at a time
- The success rate in dogs is about 90% - they estimate in rabbits it would be lower (maybe 85%). Due to the risk of the iris swelling permanently and closing over the pupil
- The surgery involves removing the front of the lens. The rabbit is left very far sighted.

Having read about Parsnipbuns Charlie on here and on FB I contacted Parsnipbun who kindly gave me the name of the vet at the RVC who performed Charlies surgery. I sent him a lengthy email earlier today explaining MJ's situation, where was with B,D&W and just for some advice. He replied a short while ago and explained the difference between the surgery he performed on Charlie and what B,D&W are proposing.
- He has obviously performed this surgery on rabbits before
- The surgery involves replacing the lens, the rabbit should have normal vision after surgery
- Both eyes can be done at the same time
- The rabbit will still go home the same day
- The cost for the surgery on both eyes is the same as one eye with B,D&W.

The best option would seem to be going with the RVC, however its 400 miles(6hrs) away and our buns don't travel well.

So my question is... what would you do?

If we go with the RVC, how can we lessen the stress for the buns travelling?

MJ is not coping with his loss of eyesight, he is quiet, withdrawn and has a very poor appetite so he really needs the surgery. The sooner the better

Thanks,

Gayle

Jack's-Jane · May 15, 2015

iiisecondcreep said:
Hi all,

One of my buns (MJ) has recently developed cataracts in both eyes. The first appeared in November last year and was 'mature' within a week, the second in April and again it was mature within a week. As such MJ lost his sight quite quickly and sadly he is not coping well.

As soon as I noticed the first cataract we contacted our own vet, they had no first hand experience of cataracts in rabbits and as such consulted with the D1ck vet school in Edinburgh. One of the possible causes was EC, however it was decided that as MJ did not exhibit an other symptoms it was unlikely to be EC. We discussed the possibility of surgery and decided that as he was coping with just one eye we would wait and go down the route of surgery if the other eye developed a cataract and have both done at the same time.

He saw the vet within a week of the second cataract developing, by which point he had lost 200g (10% of his body weight). He was referred to the D1ck vet and we had an appointment a few days later. He was admitted for the day and underwent blood tests, EC tests, an opthalmic exam and a thorough check of his teeth. His teeth were fine (the vet is positive that his weight loss is a result of losing his eyesight - unfortunately this is now reflected in his appetite whereas at the time he was eating relatively normally). The opthalmic exam revealed that his retinas still respond to light and as such he would be suitable for surgery. The EC test came back strongly positive (if only we had had him tested earlier ). He has now finished the EC treatment and been retested (awaiting results) The D1ck vet school do not do cataract surgery so we were referred to a specialist in Edinburgh - Batchelor, Davidson and Watson.

We had the consultation with B,D&W a week ago today and I am not entirely comfortable with the situation at the moment. This is what I learned:
-The vet advised that they have never performed this surgery on a rabbit (I do not know how many surgeries they have performed on rabbits at all)
- The operation takes several hours
- They will only do one eye at a time
- The success rate in dogs is about 90% - they estimate in rabbits it would be lower (maybe 85%). Due to the risk of the iris swelling permanently and closing over the pupil
- The surgery involves removing the front of the lens. The rabbit is left very far sighted.

Having read about Parsnipbuns Charlie on here and on FB I contacted Parsnipbun who kindly gave me the name of the vet at the RVC who performed Charlies surgery. I sent him a lengthy email earlier today explaining MJ's situation, where was with B,D&W and just for some advice. He replied a short while ago and explained the difference between the surgery he performed on Charlie and what B,D&W are proposing.
- He has obviously performed this surgery on rabbits before
- The surgery involves replacing the lens, the rabbit should have normal vision after surgery
- Both eyes can be done at the same time
- The rabbit will still go home the same day
- The cost for the surgery on both eyes is the same as one eye with B,D&W.

The best option would seem to be going with the RVC, however its 400 miles(6hrs) away and our buns don't travel well.

So my question is... what would you do?

If we go with the RVC, how can we lessen the stress for the buns travelling?

MJ is not coping with his loss of eyesight, he is quiet, withdrawn and has a very poor appetite so he really needs the surgery. The sooner the better

Thanks,

Gayle

I agree that the RVC sounds to be the best option if you were to go ahead with Surgery. However, I would not want to be transporting him 600 miles home immediately after (ie on the same day) as the op' and I would want a water tight post op' care plan drawn up between the RVC and your local Vet.

I honestly do not know what I would do if I were having to make the decision for a Rabbit who was a very poor traveller. Morse was horrendous, he could barely cope with a 10 minute car journey. I dont think he would have survived a 600 mile one. Really you are the only person who can decide if it would be in MJ's best interests to take him to the RVC. If you did I would not want the travelling to be on the day of the op'.

I am sorry that I cant help you decide what to do, it sounds to be a very difficult situation with lots of aspects to be taken into account.

iiisecondcreep · May 15, 2015

Jack's-Jane said:
I agree that the RVC sounds to be the best option if you were to go ahead with Surgery. However, I would not want to be transporting him 600 miles home immediately after (ie on the same day) as the op' and I would want a water tight post op' care plan drawn up between the RVC and your local Vet.

I honestly do not know what I would do if I were having to make the decision for a Rabbit who was a very poor traveller. Morse was horrendous, he could barely cope with a 10 minute car journey. I dont think he would have survived a 600 mile one. Really you are the only person who can decide if it would be in MJ's best interests to take him to the RVC. If you did I would not want the travelling to be on the day of the op'.

I am sorry that I cant help you decide what to do, it sounds to be a very difficult situation with lots of aspects to be taken into account.

Thanks so much for replying, I totally agree re travelling after surgery. My OH's parents live less than an hour away from the practice so we could probably stay with them. Failing that we'd find pet friendly accommodation. The longest they've ever travelled in one go is probably 2hours, in one day maybe a bit more going either to the D1ck vet or Buddies Bunnies when we used to board there.

I've had a chat with my OH and we both think going down south is the best option, I'm not confident that the surgery offered by the Edinburgh vet will give MJ the same quality of life as he had before the cataracts - especially as the chances are he will only end up having one eye done, which he will see out of but it won't be in focus. Normally hes very active, always running around, binking about like a loon, jumping and climbing onto things. Best of all he loves exploring. And when he's done, proper flat out DBF. He doesn't do any of those things now. He just sits in a ball. He still flops, but only when hes in the pen and his wifey is next to him. We briefly had visitors last week, MJ came out to investigate and was sniffing around but he ended up frustrated and went back to his pen and thumped and made an annoyed noise.

I would feel so sad for him if he went through the surgery in Edinburgh and it just didn't help him all that much, when there was a better option available.

I'll call and speak to my own vet and the vet we saw at the D1ck vet next week.

joey&boo · May 15, 2015

He is a lucky bunny to have you

I agree extra travel in exchange for a bunny savvy vet is the right move. Please keep us updated

Jack's-Jane · May 15, 2015

iiisecondcreep said:
Thanks so much for replying, I totally agree re travelling after surgery. My OH's parents live less than an hour away from the practice so we could probably stay with them. Failing that we'd find pet friendly accommodation. The longest they've ever travelled in one go is probably 2hours, in one day maybe a bit more going either to the D1ck vet or Buddies Bunnies when we used to board there.

I've had a chat with my OH and we both think going down south is the best option, I'm not confident that the surgery offered by the Edinburgh vet will give MJ the same quality of life as he had before the cataracts - especially as the chances are he will only end up having one eye done, which he will see out of but it won't be in focus. Normally hes very active, always running around, binking about like a loon, jumping and climbing onto things. Best of all he loves exploring. And when he's done, proper flat out DBF. He doesn't do any of those things now. He just sits in a ball. He still flops, but only when hes in the pen and his wifey is next to him. We briefly had visitors last week, MJ came out to investigate and was sniffing around but he ended up frustrated and went back to his pen and thumped and made an annoyed noise.

I would feel so sad for him if he went through the surgery in Edinburgh and it just didn't help him all that much, when there was a better option available.

I'll call and speak to my own vet and the vet we saw at the D1ck vet next week.

You are obviously trying to do everything possible for MJ and I am sure that whatever you decide to do it will be with MJ's best interests at heart. I have had Rabbits who have gone gradually blind and they have adapted and coped well. But I had one, Brian, who went blind overnight and he became a terrified Rabbit, charging into walls in total panic. He lost his site due to a brain tumour, so not something that could be fixed. So I think that it is much more of an ordeal for A Rabbit to go blind relatively suddenly, as has been the case for MJ, rather than gradually over a period of many months.

I really hope that MJ can be helped by the RVC, please do keep us updated if you can xx

parsnipbun · May 15, 2015

You are welcome to stay here the night before with him and then to stay here until you can collect him if you want. We are an hours drive straight diwn the A1 to hatfield. He will probably stay the night with them anyway. They will also need to see him a week or so before the surgery usually to make sure he is suitable for it.

parsnipbun · May 15, 2015

Charlie stayed the night but actually that may have been because he had to have one eye removed in the end.

Jack's-Jane · May 16, 2015

parsnipbun said:
You are welcome to stay here the night before with him and then to stay here until you can collect him if you want. We are an hours drive straight diwn the A1 to hatfield. He will probably stay the night with them anyway. They will also need to see him a week or so before the surgery usually to make sure he is suitable for it.

That's a really lovely offer

beki · May 16, 2015

Poor bunny

I have a bunny that suddenly developed an ec related cataract. He only has one eye affected and was treated with 28 days of lapizole so I'm hoping we have put a stop to it developing in his other eye. I honestly don't know what I would do if it happened in his other eye.

The rvc option definitely sounds like the best one for your bunny as if both eyes can be done in one go it will be less stressful for him. Is the travelling something you could break up In to lots of stops and that might help him a bit?

iiisecondcreep · May 18, 2015

Thanks all for your comments

I contacted my vet this morning about getting a referral to the RVC, hoping to hear back from them this afternoon.

parsnipbun said:
You are welcome to stay here the night before with him and then to stay here until you can collect him if you want. We are an hours drive straight diwn the A1 to hatfield. He will probably stay the night with them anyway. They will also need to see him a week or so before the surgery usually to make sure he is suitable for it.

That is a very kind offer, thank you

Fortunately my OH's parents stay 45-50minutes away so the plan would be to go down to theirs a day or so before, this would give our buns a chance to settle down and would mean MJ would be returning to someplace a bit more familiar after the surgery, and we could stay for a few days after. My OH's parents will also benefit from this as we don't see them much as they are so far away.
The vet advised in his email that they can arrange to see a rabbit and also do the surgery the same day.

beki said:
Poor bunny I have a bunny that suddenly developed an ec related cataract. He only has one eye affected and was treated with 28 days of lapizole so I'm hoping we have put a stop to it developing in his other eye. I honestly don't know what I would do if it happened in his other eye.

The rvc option definitely sounds like the best one for your bunny as if both eyes can be done in one go it will be less stressful for him. Is the travelling something you could break up In to lots of stops and that might help him a bit?

I'm sorry to hear your bunny also has a cataract, I will keep my fingers crossed that the treatment prevents another one from forming.
Re the travelling I'm not sure breaking it up would help too much, I don't think there would be enough time in breaks to let them properly settle down, probably as well just getting the journey out the way as quick as possible. In their eyes, I don't suppose it would too much worse then when they've gone for a vet visit in the morning and been admitted for the day then taken home in the evening.

iiisecondcreep · May 18, 2015

UD: I heard back from my vet who advised getting a referral from the D1ck vet as they did the opthalmic exam so i have spoken with them. The RVC have informed me that they are getting in a delivery of lenses in around a month so all going to plan we should see them in 4-5weeks.

Jack's-Jane · May 18, 2015

iiisecondcreep said:
UD: I heard back from my vet who advised getting a referral from the D1ck vet as they did the opthalmic exam so i have spoken with them. The RVC have informed me that they are getting in a delivery of lenses in around a month so all going to plan we should see them in 4-5weeks.

I really do hope everything goes well,not only the surgery but the journey too xx

MightyMax · May 18, 2015

iiisecondcreep said:
UD: I heard back from my vet who advised getting a referral from the D1ck vet as they did the opthalmic exam so i have spoken with them. The RVC have informed me that they are getting in a delivery of lenses in around a month so all going to plan we should see them in 4-5weeks.

Just read your story and I really hope all works out!

I always feel that if things fall into place (e.g. you being able to stay with your folks) then it's meant to be, and a success will be guaranteed!
Let's hope so!

iiisecondcreep · May 26, 2015

I spoke with the vet at the vet school end of last week re the referral and blood/EC test results, turns out my call earlier in the week and the blood tests hadn't reached her. So spoke with her again today. The blood test result isn't completely clear but is looking very similar to the previous test result of 'strongly positive' so they've to get another 28day course of panacur

Looking like it'll be late July before we will be able to get the surgery :/

Jack's-Jane · May 26, 2015

iiisecondcreep said:
I spoke with the vet at the vet school end of last week re the referral and blood/EC test results, turns out my call earlier in the week and the blood tests hadn't reached her. So spoke with her again today. The blood test result isn't completely clear but is looking very similar to the previous test result of 'strongly positive' so they've to get another 28day course of panacur
Looking like it'll be late July before we will be able to get the surgery :/

Well you are receiving expert advice, so I am sure that they will continue to do everything possible for your Rabbit. I can imagine that the waiting is very stressful for you though x

MightyMax · May 26, 2015

iiisecondcreep said:
I spoke with the vet at the vet school end of last week re the referral and blood/EC test results, turns out my call earlier in the week and the blood tests hadn't reached her. So spoke with her again today. The blood test result isn't completely clear but is looking very similar to the previous test result of 'strongly positive' so they've to get another 28day course of panacur
Looking like it'll be late July before we will be able to get the surgery :/

Never mind, it's best to do the Panacur if that's what you've been advised. Your vet sounds clued up so your bunny's in the best hands.

iiisecondcreep · May 29, 2015

We started the repeat course of panacur yesterday, any advise for improving the chances of success? :/

I also now have the referral to the RVC, hoping to get booked in for 20th July

Still not heard from the insurance despite having submitted the pre-authorisation form on may 11th and the form stating 3-5 working days for a response :roll: called them yesterday and they claimed not to have received it (sent it to the two email adds I was told to!). Ultimately it doesn't matter, he'll be getting the surgery regardless of whether they pay out but it would be nice to know.

Jack's-Jane · May 30, 2015

iiisecondcreep said:
We started the repeat course of panacur yesterday, any advise for improving the chances of success? :/

I also now have the referral to the RVC, hoping to get booked in for 20th July

Still not heard from the insurance despite having submitted the pre-authorisation form on may 11th and the form stating 3-5 working days for a response :roll: called them yesterday and they claimed not to have received it (sent it to the two email adds I was told to!). Ultimately it doesn't matter, he'll be getting the surgery regardless of whether they pay out but it would be nice to know.

Gah, Insurance companies :roll:

Re the Panacur, it wont actually treat the existing eye condition, Panacur can only help reduce the number of EC spores circulating within the bloodstream to try to prevent any further cellular damage should any spores erupt. I'd try to insure that the full dose of Panacur is ingested daily and that you do all you can to minimise the risk of your Bun ingesting urine contaminated hay/feed etc. EC spores are shed in the urine and re-ingesting spores would re-infect the Rabbit. It is advisable to bleach clean the Rabbits environment on days 21 and 28 of treatment. A steam cleaner can be used on surfaces that cannot be bleach cleaned.

I hope the appointment comes through for the 20th July, sending lots of vibes xx

MightyMax · May 30, 2015

iiisecondcreep said:
We started the repeat course of panacur yesterday, any advise for improving the chances of success? :/

I also now have the referral to the RVC, hoping to get booked in for 20th July

Still not heard from the insurance despite having submitted the pre-authorisation form on may 11th and the form stating 3-5 working days for a response :roll: called them yesterday and they claimed not to have received it (sent it to the two email adds I was told to!). Ultimately it doesn't matter, he'll be getting the surgery regardless of whether they pay out but it would be nice to know.

The course of Panacur will not affect anything that has already happened to the eye, presuming it was connected with E.C. anyway. I had a bun with phacoclastic uveitis caused by E.C. and although we treated her, she never regained her sight.

However, the Panacur will be a good way of ensuring protection against any other E.C. related misery, and a course typically lasts 4 - 6 weeks. Remember to bleach or steam clean on days 21 and 28 of treatment to ensure eradication of E.C. spores, which are transmitted via the urine.

Good luck for 20th July!

parsnipbun · May 30, 2015

The RVC go ahead with the surgery regardless of the status of the EC.

My insurance covered all but the 'excess' (which in our case was quite a bit as Charlie is 8 years old).

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