Fiver again - U/D post #107 - May 5 - doing much better

As per my thread here,
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?442089-Fiver-just-had-a-seizure

I was concerned Fiver had a seizure Sunday night. Took him to vet Tuesday and had that confirmed but that nothing was broken or otherwise injured and he was put on baytril for 14 days to clear up what vet thought might be inner/middle ear infection that is causing him problems. He's been doing well and taking his meds like a champ and even seemed to be much improved the first night, although his poos are getting a bit smaller than they should be. :?

I just got back in from walking my dogs and noticed Fiver is suddenly holding his left front paw up off the floor and doesn't seem to want to put weight on it. Earlier this morning he woke me by binkying around his enclosure which made me so happy because I thought he was feeling better. Now this.

I took him out of his habitat and put him on my bed to see if I could feel a break and I realize I just don't know what I'm looking for, but I don't feel anything "flopping around" or moving strangely. He's not happy to have me touch it but thank God he's not screaming or making any other vocalizations but for his usual stroppy grunts. He is currently popping in and out of his litterbox on three legs and glaring at me for messing with him, but when I released him to return to his enclosure he used the leg. I worry that if it is broken he would still use it due to adrenaline rush because he's such a stress head. Do rabbits do this or do they usually exhibit more pain/reluctance to use the limb if it is fractured/broken? Could he have dislocated it? Wouldn't I feel something amiss if any of the above had occurred?

Help please? My OH is planning on going into town this morning and if I need a ride to the vets I have to catch him before he leaves.

Poor Fiver I'm sorry, I don't know... But Daisy used to do this before she was diagnosed with arthritis in her elbow. Now she's on daily metacam she's fine. This probably doesn't help, but didn't want to read and run. Sending mega vibes for your little chap xxx

Oh no, poor Fiver is in the wars lately Could he have pulled a nail off ? Have you checked for that ? I think if you are in any doubt I'd get the Vet to take a look at him xx

Thanks ladies. No Jane, his nails look intact, but I just watched him try to wash his face (it seemed like he could put the toes down and balance on them like a ballerina) but he can't even lift the paw up to wash.
My poor boy...how could this have happened? He was fine this morning.
It's going to take a bit to get myself together as I'd just gotten up but I guess I'll have to run him in. This week has been a nightmare for my poor little guy. Not even sure there's an exotics vet on today.

Poor Fiver and poor you, I hope it's nothing serious. Sending lots of vibes and (((hugs))) xx

I hope that the problem will be found to be minor. He sure is giving your stress levels a test this week

Millions more vibes on their way across the pond xx

Thanks again everyone. We're at vets now just waiting. I'm worried through the roof. Will update as soon as I have news.

I hope it's nothing serious.

Sending lots of vibes xxx

Sending more vibes for Fiver, really hope it's nothing serious x

Well I wasn't expecting this
The vet thinks his leg is either partially or completely paralyzed.
No break or sprain (although she just manipulated the leg, didn't xray, but she felt it thoroughly, stretched it out and back several times, pinched the hell out of it and then tried to get him to at least extend the foot to touch down on the floor and he can't seem to move it. It's not reflexing like the right leg. Once again I'm getting the "it could be a brain tumor or e.c. and we can test that for $200 but the results will likely be inconclusive, blah-blah-blah..." The doctor who saw him Tuesday was in the office but it was his day off, she did go back to consult with him but he didn't come out to see Fiver.
I asked if it could be the baytril (or something in it perhaps) that caused a problem...maybe something opportunistic has come into play with the abx tackling other things...I just don't know. This gal is supposed to be rabbit savvy but she doesn't quite meet the mark (her own admission) and if the doctor in charge of his case wouldn't even pop out to give him a quick look then I just don't know. I've totally failed him.

It's not paining him, that much I know. He seems to be able to put a little weight on it but not much...just like a quick leaning while he washes his face, but he can't get the paw up to his mouth to use it.

My poor boy...what could have gone wrong? She mentioned nerves in the "plexus"...some part of the underside of the shoulder/in the armpit? Something like that....the nerves could be damaged there and he wouldn't be able to really use his leg effectively. This is my wee boy who was binkying in his pen this morning all happy...why did this happen??

No precautionary fenbendazole in case it's e.c., she wouldn't authorize it...no increase on his metacam because she found no pain response (nevermind the anti-imflammatory proprieties, eh?) I am just sick. She says he still has some deep pain sensation so maybe he just threw something out or pinched a junction and the nerves are stunned...but God, I look at him holding his wee paw curled over and I'm useless because I can't do anything....

I'm scared to death for his dental/diagnostics on Monday now...it's the same day my daughter and OH leave for her thyroid surgery in Anchorage...if anything happens to him while he's under anesthesia and they're away I'm going to lose it.

I'm sorry guys...I'm just in bits here. I don't know what to do. Please help.

MimzMum said:

Thanks ladies. No Jane, his nails look intact, but I just watched him try to wash his face (it seemed like he could put the toes down and balance on them like a ballerina) but he can't even lift the paw up to wash.
My poor boy...how could this have happened? He was fine this morning.
It's going to take a bit to get myself together as I'd just gotten up but I guess I'll have to run him in. This week has been a nightmare for my poor little guy. Not even sure there's an exotics vet on today.

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Oh I'm sorry to hear this. Could he have got his paw caught somewhere? I know of a rabbit who behaved like this after he got his paw trapped in a door. It did heal up quite soon and he began to put weight on it again.

I hope all is well with poor Fiver :wave:

Oh no!! Poor wee man. I suppose all you can do is let it rest and see what happens in the circumstances.

It's rubbish not having the support of a vet. You do have the support of RU though. Come on Fiver, we're all behind you.


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MightyMax said:

Oh I'm sorry to hear this. Could he have got his paw caught somewhere? I know of a rabbit who behaved like this after he got his paw trapped in a door. It did heal up quite soon and he began to put weight on it again.

I hope all is well with poor Fiver :wave:

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There really is nowhere for him to catch his paw though. I keep his enclosures free of anything that would snag it...there is no sign of any damage to the leg itself except for the poor nervous response. Upon going in all I could think was he had to have broken or severely sprained it by coming out of his litterbox wrong...but how nerve damage (especially since he had a seizure on Sunday night) didn't even cross my mind I am at a loss to explain.

He seems his usual self but for that dragging paw. I'm a wreck, me. I can't understand how this came about unless he had another seizure this morning? It would've had to have been while I was out walking the dogs. There was nothing disturbed in his enclosure though, like there was Sunday when his blankets were all thrown about from his thrashing. Could it be a delayed response and the brain cells were still firing to move the leg until today?

Never had to deal with anything like this before, even with Mimzy's head tilt.
Thank you MM and SJH for your vibes. xxxx

thinking of you, your daughter and fiver.

MimzMum said:

There really is nowhere for him to catch his paw though. I keep his enclosures free of anything that would snag it...there is no sign of any damage to the leg itself except for the poor nervous response. Upon going in all I could think was he had to have broken or severely sprained it by coming out of his litterbox wrong...but how nerve damage (especially since he had a seizure on Sunday night) didn't even cross my mind I am at a loss to explain.

He seems his usual self but for that dragging paw. I'm a wreck, me. I can't understand how this came about unless he had another seizure this morning? It would've had to have been while I was out walking the dogs. There was nothing disturbed in his enclosure though, like there was Sunday when his blankets were all thrown about from his thrashing. Could it be a delayed response and the brain cells were still firing to move the leg until today?

Never had to deal with anything like this before, even with Mimzy's head tilt.
Thank you MM and SJH for your vibes. xxxx

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Well it would seem likely that if it were another seizure you would have seen disruption in his enclosure like you mentioned. He could have been feeling a bit fragile and leapt out of his litter box the wrong way. The bunny I mentioned had nothing to see for his 'injury' either.

I don't think it's a delayed response to his earlier seizure, as that was a good few days ago now. I would give it a day or two and see if there's any improvement. And of course try not to worry, which is well nigh impossible!

MimzMum said:

There really is nowhere for him to catch his paw though. I keep his enclosures free of anything that would snag it...there is no sign of any damage to the leg itself except for the poor nervous response. Upon going in all I could think was he had to have broken or severely sprained it by coming out of his litterbox wrong...but how nerve damage (especially since he had a seizure on Sunday night) didn't even cross my mind I am at a loss to explain.

He seems his usual self but for that dragging paw. I'm a wreck, me. I can't understand how this came about unless he had another seizure this morning? It would've had to have been while I was out walking the dogs. There was nothing disturbed in his enclosure though, like there was Sunday when his blankets were all thrown about from his thrashing. Could it be a delayed response and the brain cells were still firing to move the leg until today?

Never had to deal with anything like this before, even with Mimzy's head tilt.
Thank you MM and SJH for your vibes. xxxx

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While we never like to see our bunnies in these situations, it could be causing him less distress than it is causing you. It can be frustrating to deal with situations that are not diagnosed easily or with certainty.
You may want to consider rescheduling his Monday GA if it is not critical to his immediate care so you can focus on your daughter's surgery and supportive care for Fiver.
Don't get ahead of yourself and think the worst unless/until the time comes for those thoughts.

Thanks MM. xxxx
Unfortunately he's just sitting on his blanket in the same spot now for hours, won't go into his litter tray and won't lay down. This is not typical behaviour for him so I am unable to stop worrying.
I can't tell if he is hurting or not, he still has the paw upraised and he's breathing in a manner that is moving him about a bit back and forth, but not laboured, if you know what I mean. He hasn't eaten much since coming home, but he didn't get his kale treat with his meds this morning, maybe his tummy is a bit upset.

I'm pretty sure he's had baytril before with no problems, but now I'm wondering if this isn't all down to that or some component of it? The vet did say they had new flavours in it now (so they didn't have bunnies eating "tuna" medicine) and perhaps he is sensitive to it?
If he did sprain or tear nerves, wouldn't some part of him still be hurting?

I just want to be able to DO something to help.

Thank you for the vibes too, hb. Daughter has been very stressed for weeks and Fiver being ill has not improved her mood. xxxx

MimzMum said:

Thanks MM. xxxx
Unfortunately he's just sitting on his blanket in the same spot now for hours, won't go into his litter tray and won't lay down. This is not typical behaviour for him so I am unable to stop worrying.
I can't tell if he is hurting or not, he still has the paw upraised and he's breathing in a manner that is moving him about a bit back and forth, but not laboured, if you know what I mean. He hasn't eaten much since coming home, but he didn't get his kale treat with his meds this morning, maybe his tummy is a bit upset.

I'm pretty sure he's had baytril before with no problems, but now I'm wondering if this isn't all down to that or some component of it? The vet did say they had new flavours in it now (so they didn't have bunnies eating "tuna" medicine) and perhaps he is sensitive to it?
If he did sprain or tear nerves, wouldn't some part of him still be hurting?

I just want to be able to DO something to help.

Thank you for the vibes too, hb. Daughter has been very stressed for weeks and Fiver being ill has not improved her mood. xxxx

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Sorry, I can't recall MimzMum .. is he on Metacam, or do you have some in the house? I don't know if you've discussed this latest incident with your vet, but could it be worth giving him some if so? Or Arnica (if you use that sort of thing). Those will help with pain for strains and injuries.

Have you tried tempting him with alfalfa hay, herbs or something fresh from the garden?

I somehow feel there's a bigger picture here ..... xxx sending loads of vibes across the water xxx

bunny momma said:

While we never like to see our bunnies in these situations, it could be causing him less distress than it is causing you. It can be frustrating to deal with situations that are not diagnosed easily or with certainty.
You may want to consider rescheduling his Monday GA if it is not critical to his immediate care so you can focus on your daughter's surgery and supportive care for Fiver.
Don't get ahead of yourself and think the worst unless/until the time comes for those thoughts.

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Hi bunny momma, thank you for your kind thoughts.
I really can't reschedule the diagnostics as these were meant to determine the reason behind the seizure in the first place, plus get his dental done in case it was a tooth root problem. It's bad enough that the vet who saw him Tuesday is not on duty again till Monday, so I can't even discuss this with him. And he is not Fiver's regular vet either so that has me unhappy. I think she might take a different tack if she were here.

I really hope this will resolve itself, but I have that nagging voice that is telling me this is more than what we're seeing. He is just so "off" this afternoon. Could be something simple as his own confusion over his 'dead' limb or a stomach ache or too much back and forth between here and town. He could be picking up on me, but since he's usually never bothered with my moods I kinda think not.

I don't want to just consign him to fate, I feel like there's something right in front of me that I'm missing, so it's frustrating.
Last time I just sat on things that I thought were not much to worry about, I suddenly had a bunny with severe head tilt on his way to the ER vet on a weekend evening. I don't like to be clueless.
He's the baby too, so that makes it even harder to take. I just really want him to be okay and comfortable and neither seems likely at the moment.

But thank you for your support. It really is invaluable to have people I can speak to about bunnies because few close to me want to do that.