• Forum/Server Upgrade If you are reading this you have made it to the upgraded forum. Posts made on the old forum after 26th October 2023 have not been transfered. Everything else should be here. If you find any issues please let us know.

Broken Bond - please help!!

Emma H

Emma H

Warren Scout
Hi everyone

About a month ago, I bonded Bailey and Belle. It all went well-neither was very dominant and they just got on. I gradually increased their space and whilst I was away my mum has been letting them out in the garden sometimes. Thy are house rabbits and when I am not at home, they have run of the conservatory. For bed time-I put them in indoor cages next to each other - they are French Lops and quite large so I was unsure about joining the cages for night.

I have just returned from a week away. Whilst Iv been gone my Mum has lived at my house to bunny sit. I got back yesterday and she showed me Baileys injured ear. It's pretty cut up 😥 I am treating it with dermisol. She said she came back from the shop to blood and fur everywhere 😥 I have kept them separate in their cages but let them out this morning and a fight erupted again. Belle is also chinning everything as if to mark her territory when she's out of the cage too. I tried to feed them next to each other but Belle was very unsure about eating next to Bailey and when Bailey moved she would dart off.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Spent most of the morning in tears 😥

xxxx
arenezat.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
Oh no :cry: bumping this up in case an experienced bonder can help. I've only done one bond so I'm not much use I'm afraid :oops: Are they both spayed / neutered? Sending hugs. X
 
Has your injured bun seen a vet? Bite injuries are very susceptible to infection.

I would separate them and try to bond them in completely neutral territory. This means somewhere neither bun has been before..if you can't do that, then you can neutralise things using vinegar and water (I think white vinegar is best). Also do it in a small space. Large spaces often trigger territorial behaviour or ignoring.

As the previous owner asked, are they both neutered?
 
Thanks for getting back to me both 😃 Yes both buns are neutered / spayed and have been for some time now. I got Belle as a wife for Bailey and waited 6 weeks before I bonded them, she will now have been spayed for a while. I did the fast-track method in a bedroom upstairs where Bailey had only been a couple of times and it went well. So I moved Belle into the conservatory and all has been absolutely great.....until now 😥

Should I try again in the upstairs bedroom again? I have no other rooms they don't go. However they have both been in there now (that was their bonding room). Neither have been in that room since though.

No, I haven't taken Bailey to the vet. I sent a picture to my friend who luckily is a vet and she has told me to treat it with dermisol and keep an eye on it.

xxxx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
I would be wary of self treating wounds at home. I was just thinking that if it's bad enough, he may need pain relief/stitches. A picture isn't really enough to see how severe an injury is. If it gets any worse, then please take your rabbit to a vet.

Have you got a pen you can use? Borrow one maybe? Can they see each other from their cages, and how do they react to each other from there? I would try the bedroom again, but only in a SMALL space and try to neutralise it. Put nothing more than necessary in the pen with them, i.e litter tray, hay, water...make sure all items are steralised with vinegar. If things go well, then leave them in there with 24hr supervision for about a week and then move the pen downstairs to the room they live in (again trying to steralise everything as much as poss). If everything is fine, then you can start to increase their space. Take your time over it. Don't rush, and fingers crossed they will be fine.

If this doesn't work, you can always try sending them off to a local rescue to be bonded. Some rescues will bond bunnies for a small donation fee.
 
Well I took them for a car ride (thought this would be best before their 'date') in their carriers (they have separate ones as they are so large) and drove by the vets so I just went in (unfortunately my vet friend lives a while away) ..although I didn't realise they charged you for a consultation, I just thought they charged you for the meds. As the vet prescribed dermisol (which I already have) I didn't need to buy anything, but they charged me £25 for the pleasure 😱 Thankfully she only charged me for one rabbit!

We have had a 2 hour 'date'. I neutralised the upstairs bedroom with vinegar and cornered space off with a pen and they just had the base of a spare cage which i used for the original bonding (fully vinegard) with hay and litter in and some greens in the middle of the space.

So......Belle seemed very wary of Bailey, would stamp when he went near her sometimes but at other times she was grooming his head and he was grooming her head (I used the banana trick) . Both were eating next to each other and grooming themselves. We had no snuggling though and a little bit of chasing??

They are back in their cages now - I put Bailey in the one Belle was in this afternoon. Their cages are right next to each other (they are the big indoor ones) so can see each other through them. They seem very relaxed when they are in the cages-just lounging about, eating etc and aren't bothering with each other. Although I hate keeping them in there 😞

Shall I just keep at the dates like above do you think? And just keep them in their cages in the conservatory when I can't be with them in the bonding room? I'm so sad at having to start all over again, I really hope it doesn't take long 😥 It was so nice to have them running free together and bonded 😥 xxxxx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
Emma H said:
Well I took them for a car ride (thought this would be best before their 'date') in their carriers (they have separate ones as they are so large) and drove by the vets so I just went in (unfortunately my vet friend lives a while away) ..although I didn't realise they charged you for a consultation, I just thought they charged you for the meds. As the vet prescribed dermisol (which I already have) I didn't need to buy anything, but they charged me £25 for the pleasure  Thankfully she only charged me for one rabbit!

We have had a 2 hour 'date'. I neutralised the upstairs bedroom with vinegar and cornered space off with a pen and they just had the base of a spare cage which i used for the original bonding (fully vinegard) with hay and litter in and some greens in the middle of the space.

So......Belle seemed very wary of Bailey, would stamp when he went near her sometimes but at other times she was grooming his head and he was grooming her head (I used the banana trick) . Both were eating next to each other and grooming themselves. We had no snuggling though and a little bit of chasing??

They are back in their cages now - I put Bailey in the one Belle was in this afternoon. Their cages are right next to each other (they are the big indoor ones) so can see each other through them. They seem very relaxed when they are in the cages-just lounging about, eating etc and aren't bothering with each other. Although I hate keeping them in there 

Shall I just keep at the dates like above do you think? And just keep them in their cages in the conservatory when I can't be with them in the bonding room? I'm so sad at having to start all over again, I really hope it doesn't take long  It was so nice to have them running free together and bonded  xxxxx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
Click to expand...

I would try to keep them together as much as poss. I recently bonded a trio, and this meant kipping on the couch for about 4 days, so that I could intervene with any fights etc. :lol: After they seemed pretty happy with each other and there was no chasing, I felt comfortable enough to leave them for overnight.

Have your buns never been to the vet before? You will be charged a consultation (although I know it's ridiculous) unless it's a nice vet, or it's a follow-up. I don't know what dermisol is tbh. :? I presume it's a kind of cream?

Expect chasing, fur pulling and humping. As soon as a fight looks like it's about to happen (usually they start circling each other very closely, ears back, tails up, and sometimes they will grunt and growl) put something between them, either a very thickly gloved hand, or a board or something. Nose rubs can help to diffuse situations, but be very careful you aren't nipped.

I wouldn't use the banana. Some people do, but tbh, I think it just confuses matters. If they want to groom, they will.
 
Did you say in the time they were together they were in seperate cages overnight?
If so that can cause problems with a bond even if they can see each other they are in effect seperated. Especially with a new and fragile bond. Would it be possible to get a pen for them to go in on a night once rebonded if a cage is too small for both?. I would also leave it longer than a month next time before giving them free range time. I know it is difficult and not nice to see them cooped up but slowly seems to be better I the long run.
Hope you can get them back together soon.
 
For spay and neutering but I was only charged for the operations and then again for some antibiotics one time as they had some wet around their nose and I was petrified it might be the onset of snuffles! But I was only charged for the meds! Ah well - better to be safe than sorry I guess.

When I bonded them originally I set aside the weekend and I spent 36 hours in the bonding room with them-luckily it has a bed!haha. They weren't aggressive with each other during his whole time, just a bit of chasing from Bailey. But I was armed with oven gloves and water spray.haha. So I moved them both into the conservatory fine then. And they have been bonded for over a month now, snuggling with each other in the rooms they are allowed in, grooming each other, eating together etc. It was amazing. I'm so sad that they have had this fight and have absolutely no idea why 😥

Doesn't look like this time round is going to be so easy does it?! As this has happened mid week I can't spend all day and night with them as I have to go to work 😥

Xxxxxx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
elis-mum said:
Did you say in the time they were together they were in seperate cages overnight?
If so that can cause problems with a bond even if they can see each other they are in effect seperated. Especially with a new and fragile bond. Would it be possible to get a pen for them to go in on a night once rebonded if a cage is too small for both?. I would also leave it longer than a month next time before giving them free range time. I know it is difficult and not nice to see them cooped up but slowly seems to be better I the long run.
Hope you can get them back together soon.
Click to expand...

Oh god! I thought I was taking it slow! Maybe not then!

Yes, the only time they go in their cages is for bed time. I was planning on joining their two cages (they are the exact same large ferplast indoor ones) but I kept getting cold feet to be honest (Bailey did still chase Belle sometimes - but never aggressively - and she just hops away when he chases so i thought cooping them up may be bad for Belle if she wanted to get away) and thought they'd be fine as they can still see and smell each other. And for a month they have been fine with that as a routine?!

To be honest they don't really need to go in their cages for bed time?! They could just stay loose in the conservatory? It does get cold in there in the winter though - when I just had Bailey on his own I would put a snugglesafe in there and put stuff round the cage to make it warmer.

xxxxxx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
The ferplast cages are not really big enough for normal sized bunnies to stay in for any length of time, let alone a giant. :shock: I would just not put them away in their cages at all. My buns free range in my bedroom and there is not a cage in sight. :) Just make sure the whole room is 100% bunny proof!!

Separating them at night may have been what caused the problems. Like I said, I don't like the "dating" method. I would just try doing it like you did the first time around, but then don't separate as before.

If you want somewhere to put them away at night, then you could invest in getting a puppy pen or something? :)
 
Vegan_Bunny said:
The ferplast cages are not really big enough for normal sized bunnies to stay in for any length of time, let alone a giant. :shock: I would just not put them away in their cages at all. My buns free range in my bedroom and there is not a cage in sight. :) Just make sure the whole room is 100% bunny proof!!

Separating them at night may have been what caused the problems. Like I said, I don't like the "dating" method. I would just try doing it like you did the first time around, but then don't separate as before.

If you want somewhere to put them away at night, then you could invest in getting a puppy pen or something? :)
Click to expand...

Oh no 😞 I thought cse they can periscope in them and hop a few times (they are the biggest ones you can buy) they would be okay in there at night time.

The conservatory is definitely all proofed 😃they are in there all day loose when I'm not at home! Perhaps I should just leave them in there then and not shut them in the cage for bed time I just didn't like the thought of them being cold in there in the winter if I can't warm them up in the cages if you get what I mean? If can be like 0 degrees in there when its minus temperatures outside.

xxxxx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
Hiya, as the others have said, the problems have probably been caused because they were separated every night; that's really a bad idea! Yes I would let them free range in the conservatory once they are bonded again. I think I remember giving you advice when you were bonding them, and said you need to take things very slowly... They should stay in their bonding pen for at least a week to start with, then only GRADUALLY can you increase the size of it - don't just let them out one day. You gradually make the pen bigger and bigger until it is almost the full room. And only increase the size of space when there has been no chasing, fighting or humping for AT LEAST 48 hours each time. It's a slow process, it's vital you are patient. Good luck x
 
Min requirements for buns is a 6x2x2 enclosure/hutch with a permanent 8x4ft run attached, but this needs to be even bigger for giants. keeping them in small cages at night (when they are most active) is not good and can lead to behavioural problems. Even the largest of the Ferplast cages are not really big enough (I think they are about 5ft aren't they?) and tbh, with french lops, I'd just leave them free range. :thumb: Don't worry about it too much for now, focus on trying to get their bond sorted, because if they will not bond again, you will have to think of building separate enclosures for them or keeping them in separate rooms!
 
ripminnie said:
Hiya, as the others have said, the problems have probably been caused because they were separated every night; that's really a bad idea! Yes I would let them free range in the conservatory once they are bonded again. I think I remember giving you advice when you were bonding them, and said you need to take things very slowly... They should stay in their bonding pen for at least a week to start with, then only GRADUALLY can you increase the size of it - don't just let them out one day. You gradually make the pen bigger and bigger until it is almost the full room. And only increase the size of space when there has been no chasing, fighting or humping for AT LEAST 48 hours each time. It's a slow process, it's vital you are patient. Good luck x
Click to expand...

Hiya 😃

I can't leave them in the neutral room constantly for a week in the pen-they can jump over the sides of the play pen you see (as they are so big). The room has a bed in and other furniture that id have no where to put. Annoyingly I have to go to work 😥 So I won't be able to keep them in this room all the time. They will have to go back in their cages downstairs.

When I bonded them first, they had the weekend in the bonding room (size being increased gradually - but throughout the two days - I couldn't go any slower as I had to work Monday and they were doing really well) with no aggression so I moved them in their room at the end of the bonding weekend (the conservatory) and they have been totally fine ever since (obviously till something went on yesterday)

How else can I do it better do you think? With having the issues Iv explained above with the room etc? These are the only rooms I can use and I can only supervise them constantly at weekends so that rules out having them in the neutral room for anymore than a weekend at a time?

God I really thought I'd done well first time 😥 this is horrid! 😞 Feel like Iv really failed and can't do it any other way 😥 there are no bonding places near where I live either - the nearest is 50 miles away!

xxxxxx






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
Dont give up!!! You could try dating them each day when you are there to supervise. You could also use aivery panels or a taller puppy pen to separate them at night.

They are obviously fine most of the time. Just take it slow and I am sure you will get there. Read up on the dating method.

Some experienced bonders will hopefully come along soon.
 
I will definitely leave them free range at night then once they are bonded again (hopefully)

Thanks Tulsi!! Going to have to date them as much as I possibly can.

Oh wow that is a big one, thanks Sam and Truffs. the one I'm using to corner off part of the room is about 70cm in height I think (pic attached). Although Bailey can jump straight from the floor up to the dining table which is easily a meter or so 😖

I got up early before work and did an hour n half date, they ate some greens together and would lie separately, but often when Bailey goes near Belle she just runs and then he chases although I think he is only going up to her to try and be groomed, not to be aggressive?! I think that Bailey wants to be boss. Maybe Belle needs to learn to trust Bailey again after their fight?

Do you know of any bonders in the Shropshire area at all? The nearest one i could locate was in the west midlands just over 50 miles from me (fat fluffs) I feel so deflated 😢 I don't want to give up, I'm just worried that if I can't do it, I will have to find Belle a new home as I have no room to keep them separate.

xxxxx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
So......I took today off work (and tomorrow)....I just wanted to have a crack at the 48-hour bonding as soon as I could!!! So hopefully they could go back in their room free range as soon as possible.

The three of us have been in the neutral room since yesterday evening. I increased the space slightly this afternoon and we haven't had any aggressive behaviour at all, they are very relaxed, mutually groom, flop together and eat together. Bailey did chase Belle this morning (he gives up after about 5 secs) but hasn't since. When he chases her it seems its when he puts his head down to groom and she darts off if she doesnt fancy it. There hasn't been any fur pulling so I don't think it's true aggression? Having read lots of posts on here, some bonded buns habitually chase each other?

I was going to give them the whole neutral room tomorrow (all going well). And then perhaps put them in their room (all vinegard etc) either later in the day or the day after?

Just thought I'd get some other advice? What does everyone think?

I asked Mum if there was anything odd when she found them post-scrap and the one cage had its doors down, which makes me wonder whether both got stuck in one of the cages and Bailey chased Belle and she couldn't run away properly or something! Just wish I'd been there to see/stop it 😥 I think going forward (now I know not to shut them in cages at night time - they need constant free range) I'm going to take the doors off.

Look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

xxxxxx
ragyjysa.jpg
ypygaqu4.jpg
y7u2e4y6.jpg





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Help and advice please.
Replies
7
Views
312
bunny momma
bunny momma
B
Should I keep my bunnies in separate rooms before starting to bond them?
Replies
3
Views
340
BoschBun
B
L
Broken bond after I bring in a foster!HELP!!!!!!
Replies
2
Views
717
InspectorMorse
InspectorMorse
Back
Top