Bonding going so badly! advice?

I've been trying to bond my mini lop buck and my new conti doe together he is neutered but she is still to young and will be for atleast another 5 months. I have been bonding them in the bathroom as neither of them would be able to call it their own. Well i thought it was going quite well until he decides he is going to constantly grunt at her and try and mount her whilst stomping his feet and pushing her around with his head. She did begin by running away from him at which point i kept taking him off her he then just sat at the other side of the room grunting and staring at her. Then he got closer to her and put his head down at which point she began to clean him which i thought was a really good sign UNTIL he mounts and wee's on her! Has anyone ever heard of this happening? I don't know if its going to be completely hopeless? she just sits in the corner of the room frozen with fear whenever he comes near her on the first day they met she was nothing like this and even chose to snuggle up next to him I did think maybe its because she hasn't been spayed but because shes a giant i wont be able to do this until shes at least 8 months old and i hate the thought of keeping them apart for that long but if thats what everyone thinks is best I'm completely lost as of what to do anyone got any advice?

This is them on the first day they met. Now i feel were taking a step backwards.

Sorry they aren't getting on so well at the moment. She is still very young and this may have something to do with it.

Rabbits do wee on other rabbits so that isn't abnormal.

I would separate them for a couple of months then try again when she is a bit more mature.

Have you got a pen you can separate and keep them in for a while? When I bonded my two, there was a lot of humping and chasing. This is normal, so I wouldn't worry, tbh. I put them in a pen in neutral territory during the day and separated them at night, to give them a break and because I couldn't watch them all the time. It took a week or so, but they are now bonded, although it's "iffy" as they are two very dominant buns!

How big is your bathroom? Sometimes if they are bonded in too large a place, it can cause problems. Thy need a space small enough that they can't ignore each other, but big enough that they can run around etc.

Vegan_Bunny said:

Have you got a pen you can separate and keep them in for a while? When I bonded my two, there was a lot of humping and chasing. This is normal, so I wouldn't worry, tbh. I put them in a pen in neutral territory during the day and separated them at night, to give them a break and because I couldn't watch them all the time. It took a week or so, but they are now bonded, although it's "iffy" as they are two very dominant buns!

How big is your bathroom? Sometimes if they are bonded in too large a place, it can cause problems. Thy need a space small enough that they can't ignore each other, but big enough that they can run around etc.

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My bathroom is really small so i didn't feel this would be a problem. I have a puppy pen but i'm not sure what to use to separate them in it as I have nothing to go down the middle which they'll be able to see each other through also there is no room to move either of their cages next to each other which is a pain. At the moment they are in the garden i've put him in the run and have left her to roam around the garden and she is just sitting right next to the cage so she obviously likes him its just impossible as all he does is mount her!

So glad someone has finally told me it isn't completely useless though

As long as she isn't getting overly stressed and will let him do it he needs to mount her. This is his way of showing dominence and if she is submissive to him it will calm down. By removing him everytime you are kind of interfeering with this. I've never had a bun wee on the other one, but guess it is all part of the dominence display, I presume you are 100% sure he's neutered?

I put two young bucks with an older one, I was told they were female...
My older buck still has yellow hairs from the peeing So it's normal. Means your buck is really dominant. If you think the doe is too small to cope, then wait a while, they grow fast! I just bonded 4 and the smallest is the queen of the house. Bossing everybody around.
Good luck!

Yes, I wouldn't split them all the time. I would just let them get on with it. As long as there is no fighting or too much fur pulling, I would just let them get on with it. Maybe separating at night for a break from each other, but only where they can see each other. Could you put one in a pen and one free ranging in the bathroom?
Moving them about is not going to do their bond any good. I would keep them in one place and persevere.

Is the living room not neutral? I'm thinking that would be better and then maybe you could sleep in there just to make sure nothing happens during the night. Are their litter trays, bowl etc all neutralised?

I wouldn't attempt bonding until she has been spayed - but that is just my opinion and I'm sure others have had success with an unspayed female and neutered male.

Babsie said:

I wouldn't attempt bonding until she has been spayed - but that is just my opinion and I'm sure others have had success with an unspayed female and neutered male.

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I agree with Babsie. I'm rubbish at bonding, but I definitely wouldn't try before they were both neutered.

AnnieElms said:

I agree with Babsie. I'm rubbish at bonding, but I definitely wouldn't try before they were both neutered.

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Glad I'm not the only one!

I have 4 couples, I have never had a doe spayed (I have one now, she came from rescue and was already spayed) bonding always went easy. Maybe it's my total lack of fear. I remember bonding some bunnies and my son was really mad at me, he thought they were going to kill each other. They never did and lived happily ever after.
I just put them together and tell them "take it or leave it" and they always take it

Rufus said:

I have 4 couples, I have never had a doe spayed (I have one now, she came from rescue and was already spayed) bonding always went easy. Maybe it's my total lack of fear. I remember bonding some bunnies and my son was really mad at me, he thought they were going to kill each other. They never did and lived happily ever after.
I just put them together and tell them "take it or leave it" and they always take it

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Having unspayed females all bonded could end in a massive fight. You wouldn't want to risk any of them getting injured. I would always recommend all rabbits to be neutered, especially does. There is an 80% chance of them getting uterine cancer after the age of 5. Bonding can be very scary and most rabbits will fight another rabbit that is in their own territory. It is a very stressful time for a bunny so a lot of care is needed to make sure neither bun gets too stressed from it and result in a fight or even an episode of stasis.

Yes i am 100% sure he has been done as I've had him since he was nine weeks old took him for the op at 5 months. She is very submissive towards him and lays down when he is mounting her but he keeps on nipping at her ears which then makes her run away from him so he is just chasing her around he was even stalking her in the garden but she just kept running away.
As for worrying about her being to small she is the same size as him and she is only 9 weeks and he is 16 months although sometimes she does squeal when he is trying to mount her which is when i get involved as i don't want her getting to stressed out as she is only a baby.
What i feel is happening is because she is so young she hasn't got the hormones to think she will try and mount him as she is so young she just wants to have fun?
When i have her free roam in the garden and him in the run she snuggles up next to the run where he is sitting but he doesn't relax the same and will just sit there staring at her like he wants to get to her.

I want everyone to know I will have her spayed when she is old enough but she is only 9 weeks and as she is a giant I was under the impression they have to be older than smaller breeds when they are spayed?

Eaj20 said:

Yes i am 100% sure he has been done as I've had him since he was nine weeks old took him for the op at 5 months. She is very submissive towards him and lays down when he is mounting her but he keeps on nipping at her ears which then makes her run away from him so he is just chasing her around he was even stalking her in the garden but she just kept running away.
As for worrying about her being to small she is the same size as him and she is only 9 weeks and he is 16 months although sometimes she does squeal when he is trying to mount her which is when i get involved as i don't want her getting to stressed out as she is only a baby.
What i feel is happening is because she is so young she hasn't got the hormones to think she will try and mount him as she is so young she just wants to have fun?
When i have her free roam in the garden and him in the run she snuggles up next to the run where he is sitting but he doesn't relax the same and will just sit there staring at her like he wants to get to her.

I want everyone to know I will have her spayed when she is old enough but she is only 9 weeks and as she is a giant I was under the impression they have to be older than smaller breeds when they are spayed?

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Not sure at what age a giant can be spayed, unfortunately.

Have you bonded rabbits before? Have you read up on how rabbits behave whilst bonding? All of this seems normal to me and intervening when he seems to be stressing her out is a good thing. Humping is a sign of dominance, he is trying to assert his dominance so he will hump, and it can look quite aggressive. Fiver humped Xena by biting her scruff, so when she ran off, he pulled a chunk of fur from her! :shock: It scared the hell out of me, but fortunately there were no other signs of aggression so I let them get on with it (taking Fiver off Xena when he tried to hump her). In the end Xena ended up being the dominant one! :shock:
Obviously if she is getting very stressed then giving them a break is a must, otherwise keep them in the neutral space.

I have just put a make shift bonding pen up he is now in a puppy pen attached to her cage so they can see and smell each other at all times she is just laying sleepily and he is running around wondering where he is haha

Eaj20 said:

I have just put a make shift bonding pen up he is now in a puppy pen attached to her cage so they can see and smell each other at all times she is just laying sleepily and he is running around wondering where he is haha

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Have you neutralised her cage? 100% neutral space is important, otherwise they can get defensive and maybe have a territorial fight. Neutralising is done by cleaning with vinegar (I think white vinegar is best) diluted in water. Leave them together for a few days (maybe up to a week) for them to get used to each other, then let them in together. At every stage, make sure you re-neutralise everything, including bowls, litter trays etc. But the least amount of stuff in, no toys, tubes, etc.
Fingers crossed they will be loved up in no time. :thumb:

He see's nothing i have put in his pen or where they are as his but i put them in with each other for 2 minutes he began to hump her then he stopped i went into the next room for 2 seconds and heard this almighty shriek it was the worst noise I've ever heard! My heart is still pounding now!! Anyway I couldn't be sure of what actually happened but no one is hurt I think she might have just got a bit fed up either that or he nipped her ear harder than he normally does! I think i will defiantly keep them split up from now on but next to each other until they get used to each other then start putting them together again! fingers and toes crossed it works.

I've never found any difference between bonding an unspayed baby (who is too young for op and not yet hormonal) with a neutered male or a spayed female neutered male couple. The main problem doing it beforehand is that once the hit the hormonal stage they can become little terrors and will harrass the males. If you are luck and have a laid back male he may put up with it for a while, but if he isn't he may get very stressed and they will fight. This may be potentially a bit more of a problem in your situation as by the time hormones hit your female will probably be considerably bigger than your male so I'd advise you keep a really close eye on her behaviour once she gets around that stage so you can get her spayed before any issues.

Please can you explain exactly where and how your bonding as I'm getting confused when you stay stalking her in garden. You need to use a small neutral area.

At the moment I have them in a pen in the house at the end of our hallway so they can see each other but not get to each other since I've had him in there he has seemed to calmed down around her. I can quite honestly say that she wants nothing more than to be with him but when they are in the same cage he is just constantly mounting her and nipping at her ears. So I'm not going to put them in with each other until I think I can trust him around her. I know everyone says that the mounting is normal and I should not stop him from doing it but when she gets so stressed out I have no choice but to he doesn't stop for even 2 seconds. I have left them in the pen whilst at work today and I'm quite scared to see what i find when i get home as he is a little escape artist haha!

As for him stalking her in the garden they were only outside for around half an hour as I had my baby rabbits in the run I couldn't put either of them in there as he doesn't like the babies and they are old enough to get her pregnant so I thought it was best to keep them separate.

I will keep and eye on them once her hormones start. I'm going to speak to the vets today and see at what age she will be able to be spayed as I would like it done as soon as possible.