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Whimpering when weeing, had bladder expressed, wat to do?

B

bunniesgalore

Alpha Buck
Milly was diagnosed with bladder sludge issues probably nigh on a year ago. She'd had cystitis a couple of times, drank lots and spent ages in her litter tray digging. I took loads of info to the vet and said I felt was sludge and she needed her bladder expressing. When the vet phoned later to say he did bladder surgery I was well gutted really. I didn't think it needed that at all but I'm not a vet, he is. I managed to get Milly on furusimide twice daily and once daily metacam. Septrin is commenced when signs of cystitis.
Since the she s had her bladder expressed a couple of times whilst having dentals. When she needs a dental I ask vet to check bladder sludge, x ray and express bladder.
I took Milly a few days ago as she was whimpering a bit in the litter tray and spending a lot of time in there. She was quite wet, indicating cystitis and also I felt she was leaking rather than properly urinating.
For an unknown reason my vet acted as though never heard of bladder sludge. I said she needed her bladder expressed. He said all rabbits have calcium in urine, keep on low calcium diet-no veg and all fine blah due blah. I was agog. I calmly explained that she needed her bladder expressing as she has before. He lifted up her back legs, pressed her bladder and she weed a bit. 'See' he announced 'no sludge at all'.
I was so frustrated. I said calmly again, the meds help her last longer as does diet but she will still need bladder expressed every so often. I insisted he do bladder express.
He muttered about not doing bladder surgery again-I said 'I don't want herb to have bladder surgery, she needs her bladder expressed..he went on about carherters-he hasn't got any blah blah blah. In the end he agreed to express Milly's bladder whilst she had gas but said won't be any sludge. 15 mid later he returned..'I got lots out' he said. 'Really'.me
The thing is Milly is much better. She finished her Septrim week and completely dry. She's bright, running round, eating well, but in her tray she still whimpers a bit. She doesn't spend long in the tray but still the noises. She doesn't look distressed and will come out the tray and dash around. She's much better, but...I've never know her make noises before. I've been umming and ahhing about what to do. There is no better vet I can go to locally. Milly is insured but I have to pay the bill first which is a nightmare as on low income. What do I do? Any idea what's wrong? Could it be she got inflammation in her bladder or scar tissue or that expressing her bladder perhaps bruised her a bit so a bit tender?
Then how do I mend my vets memory problems?.....::?
 
The problem with bladder sludge is that unless the primary cause is identified and treated it will keep recurring. Just expressing the bladder seldom rectifies the problem longterm. If the primary cause cannot be successfully treated then sometimes the Rabbit will need manual bladder expression daily indefinitely.

Do you know the primary cause of Milly's bladder sludge problem ?
 
Given the circumstances with the vet, I'd be seeking a referral/finding a vet locally that is more tuned in to rabbits.

I'd agree with Jane that finding the cause of the problem would be a huge step, x-rays etc, if they haven't already been undertaken.

As for expressing a sludgy bladder - with a full bladder if they give it a squeeze the first bit of the urine will be fairly clear, as you probably know.... but the vet doesn't seem to:roll:

Artie has his bladder expressed every 5 weeks or so. I've seen it done between 25 and 30 times now and his vet (FHB) "mixes" the sediment with the fluid by palpating before expressing. What comes out generally looks like cold tea then a bit thicker towards the end. We've never found why he has this problem but he has EC so it's likely to be neurological damage from that.

Definitely my first move (if you're in an area where it's possible) would be finding a vet who at least shows more interest/concern in Milly's health.
 
Thanks Jane.
No idea why Milly has sludge. Before she was on furosimide she drank lots and clearly in pain, but though she loathes her meds they do work for her. I would say she's had her bladder expressed every three months and other than this time, it was teeth that were the issues and bladder expressed as 'may as well' whilst at vets and sedated.
She's a rescue and taken to rescue when about to give birth to 2nd litter. Had lived in garage. That's all I know.
She has lousy molars, all over the place with regular dentals needed to grind her teeth to near gum line.
My assumption is she's more than likely inbred and had a poor start to life, no light, poor diet...
I do take care with her veggie and food consumption but as she doesn't eat hay and her teeth are ground down so low it's difficult to give the ideal diet.
This is the first time I've ever heard her make noises. Hard to describe sound, sort of squeeky grunts. But other than that she seems very happy and very 'Milly'.
I'm not very helpful. Sorry. This is a me feeling uneasy rather than an obviously acute situation if you see what I mean. Most people wouldn't even notice her squeaking on the loo.
 
Bunny Buddy said:
Given the circumstances with the vet, I'd be seeking a referral/finding a vet locally that is more tuned in to rabbits.

I'd agree with Jane that finding the cause of the problem would be a huge step, x-rays etc, if they haven't already been undertaken.

As for expressing a sludgy bladder - with a full bladder if they give it a squeeze the first bit of the urine will be fairly clear, as you probably know.... but the vet doesn't seem to:roll:

Artie has his bladder expressed every 5 weeks or so. I've seen it done between 25 and 30 times now and his vet (FHB) "mixes" the sediment with the fluid by palpating before expressing. What comes out generally looks like cold tea then a bit thicker towards the end. We've never found why he has this problem but he has EC so it's likely to be neurological damage from that.

Definitely my first move (if you're in an area where it's possible) would be finding a vet who at least shows more interest/concern in Milly's health.
Click to expand...

My vet had got quite good about this. I have no idea why he had sudden memory loss.
My vet expresses the bladder in the same way as you describe. X-rays have always been done whenever she's had her bladder expressed previously. It's sludge, not stones.
I don't think we'll have this issue again as now he's done this and its 'new' things that are more 'difficult' to achieve.
It's the sort of squeaking, whimpering that is my concern. Presumably any further exploration would be more xrays etc?
As Milly is so bright in every other way, could it be either irritation to her bladder or bruising cause by the bladder massage? She has a lot of procedures with teeth, abscesses, bladder and then other illnesses she's had so loathe to 'over fiddle' with her. Presumably if this was acute she'd exhibit more symptoms then squeaking so perhaps I stay vigilent and unless the situation changes, just wait for her teeth to need doing and do more xrays then?

I'm due to take them for vaccinations soon so will ask if they can quickly do an xray the same time, assuming it can be done without sedation.
 
bunniesgalore said:
My vet had got quite good about this. I have no idea why he had sudden memory loss.
My vet expresses the bladder in the same way as you describe. X-rays have always been done whenever she's had her bladder expressed previously. It's sludge, not stones.
I don't think we'll have this issue again as now he's done this and its 'new' things that are more 'difficult' to achieve.
It's the sort of squeaking, whimpering that is my concern. Presumably any further exploration would be more xrays etc?
As Milly is so bright in every other way, could it be either irritation to her bladder or bruising cause by the bladder massage? She has a lot of procedures with teeth, abscesses, bladder and then other illnesses she's had so loathe to 'over fiddle' with her. Presumably if this was acute she'd exhibit more symptoms then squeaking so perhaps I stay vigilent and unless the situation changes, just wait for her teeth to need doing and do more xrays then?

I'm due to take them for vaccinations soon so will ask if they can quickly do an xray the same time, assuming it can be done without sedation.
Click to expand...

Yes, sorry, now I focus more carefully on what you are saying it sounds like a one-off, hopefully, with your vet.

On a few occasions Artie has had a few 'out of sorts' days after his bladder expressing. He doesn't have sedation now, though he did initially. He just had it done during a consultation now. Really not sure whether to advise further investigations as it does sound like it's been quite well looked at, I did wonder if stones was an issue, though that's been ruled out. If this whimpering is soon after the bladder expressing I think I would be inclined to put it down to that, as it definitely could cause tenderness and discomfort for a while after. Artie has daily Metacam so gets that anyway after the expressing but I don't particularly want to go down the route of getting more painkillers for him unless absolutely necessary as he only has one kidney and it might be preferable for him just to cope with discomfort rather than risk damage from higher dose painkillers.

From reading your first post again, Artie and Millie are on pretty much the same treatment regime, so I'm out of suggestions, other than as above, that *maybe* it's just discomfort after taht expressing that will wear off.
 
Last edited:
bunniesgalore said:
My vet had got quite good about this. I have no idea why he had sudden memory loss.
My vet expresses the bladder in the same way as you describe. X-rays have always been done whenever she's had her bladder expressed previously. It's sludge, not stones.
I don't think we'll have this issue again as now he's done this and its 'new' things that are more 'difficult' to achieve.
It's the sort of squeaking, whimpering that is my concern. Presumably any further exploration would be more xrays etc?
As Milly is so bright in every other way, could it be either irritation to her bladder or bruising cause by the bladder massage? She has a lot of procedures with teeth, abscesses, bladder and then other illnesses she's had so loathe to 'over fiddle' with her. Presumably if this was acute she'd exhibit more symptoms then squeaking so perhaps I stay vigilent and unless the situation changes, just wait for her teeth to need doing and do more xrays then?

I'm due to take them for vaccinations soon so will ask if they can quickly do an xray the same time, assuming it can be done without sedation.
Click to expand...

Can you video her on your phone with the sound she is making. I did this with Doughnut when no one would listen to me about her noises when she was in pain and rubbing her throat. The first specialist said the video was fine and nothing to worry about, i knew it wasn't the second specialist looked at it and said oh my god, poor little thing. She is getting on the mend now but I am so pleased I had that on the phone as it showed how she can be like as she didn't make the noises at the vets or rub her throat. I would then find a specialist, even if it means a lot further away as this may well be able to be resolved. I still listen out for the noises continually to check she is OK and I can imagine you are doing the same and worrying all the time.
 
cpayne said:
Can you video her on your phone with the sound she is making. I did this with Doughnut when no one would listen to me about her noises when she was in pain and rubbing her throat. The first specialist said the video was fine and nothing to worry about, i knew it wasn't the second specialist looked at it and said oh my god, poor little thing. She is getting on the mend now but I am so pleased I had that on the phone as it showed how she can be like as she didn't make the noises at the vets or rub her throat. I would then find a specialist, even if it means a lot further away as this may well be able to be resolved. I still listen out for the noises continually to check she is OK and I can imagine you are doing the same and worrying all the time.
Click to expand...

Hadn't thought of this-thanks. My vet can be really good but at other times can be quite defensive and it,s a bit like he's put his hands over his ears, closing his eyes and going 'LA do da do da I can't hear you'. Recently we've had Rupert with his mysterious bladder (now believed to be Willow induced thanks to Jane's help). That meant a lengthy 'debate' re: what to do. Vet-nothing. Me-metachlopromide. At the moment I'm being treated as though I have Munchausen's by proxy. Not the first time I've felt this at the vets. :lol: It's difficult when my highly qualified vet is being given mini 'lectures' by a non vet-me. It's a delicate balance and sometimes I feel good, other times bad.
Anyway, it seems as though it isn't a major emergency with Milly. I'll keep an eye on her, blimey don't I always! The trouble is that she's doing really well in other ways so loathe to make her endure horrible exploratory procedures.
Hopefully all will be well. Thank you for your thoughts and apologies for the potential red herring of my vet's amnesia....:shock:
 
bunniesgalore said:
Milly was diagnosed with bladder sludge issues probably nigh on a year ago. She'd had cystitis a couple of times, drank lots and spent ages in her litter tray digging. I took loads of info to the vet and said I felt was sludge and she needed her bladder expressing. When the vet phoned later to say he did bladder surgery I was well gutted really. I didn't think it needed that at all but I'm not a vet, he is. I managed to get Milly on furusimide twice daily and once daily metacam. Septrin is commenced when signs of cystitis.
Since the she s had her bladder expressed a couple of times whilst having dentals. When she needs a dental I ask vet to check bladder sludge, x ray and express bladder.
I took Milly a few days ago as she was whimpering a bit in the litter tray and spending a lot of time in there. She was quite wet, indicating cystitis and also I felt she was leaking rather than properly urinating.
For an unknown reason my vet acted as though never heard of bladder sludge. I said she needed her bladder expressed. He said all rabbits have calcium in urine, keep on low calcium diet-no veg and all fine blah due blah. I was agog. I calmly explained that she needed her bladder expressing as she has before. He lifted up her back legs, pressed her bladder and she weed a bit. 'See' he announced 'no sludge at all'.
I was so frustrated. I said calmly again, the meds help her last longer as does diet but she will still need bladder expressed every so often. I insisted he do bladder express.
He muttered about not doing bladder surgery again-I said 'I don't want herb to have bladder surgery, she needs her bladder expressed..he went on about carherters-he hasn't got any blah blah blah. In the end he agreed to express Milly's bladder whilst she had gas but said won't be any sludge. 15 mid later he returned..'I got lots out' he said. 'Really'.me
The thing is Milly is much better. She finished her Septrim week and completely dry. She's bright, running round, eating well, but in her tray she still whimpers a bit. She doesn't spend long in the tray but still the noises. She doesn't look distressed and will come out the tray and dash around. She's much better, but...I've never know her make noises before. I've been umming and ahhing about what to do. There is no better vet I can go to locally. Milly is insured but I have to pay the bill first which is a nightmare as on low income. What do I do? Any idea what's wrong? Could it be she got inflammation in her bladder or scar tissue or that expressing her bladder perhaps bruised her a bit so a bit tender?
Then how do I mend my vets memory problems?.....::?
Click to expand...

OMG that vet needs a verbal slap and a sharp reminder as to who is paying the bill, and if he has no interest in treating her, you will make a formal complaint to 'The Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons' and seek a referal to someone who does care. Can't stand vets like this, and now treat them with the contempt they deserve.
 
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