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Fifi: EC/Head Tilt/Ear infection: 31/07 Update

B

Bink

Mama Doe
I am currently away from home, but had a phone call from my mum (we equally share responsibility for our 4 buns) to say that Fifi is moving her head left to right about as rapidly as a resting heart beat, and her eyes are moving about coordinated with the head movements (scanning??).

Mum has checked her over, she is eating etc and is able to move around apparently without problems, but these movements have been constant today. I have advised her to call the emergency vet for advice and asked her to call me back, but thought I would check here to see what you thought?

Perhaps of note, I have seen clear discharge from her left eye on three occasions over the past month or so. On consultation with the usual vet, they said really if it's clear there is probably not much to worry about. She had the combined Myxo/VHD vaccination around 3 weeks ago now.

I'm trying to think about the possibilities rationally. I have heard of scanning, but not really sure what it represents. Mum says her eyes don't appear cloudy. Any ideas about this would be welcome.

Thanks.
 
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It sounds as though she is displaying neurological symptoms indicative of EC. Is her head tilting at all ? A middle ear infection is also a possibility. I would want her seen by a Vet today.
 
This is how my rabbit Mimis head tilt started :( Hers was due to an inner ear infection. She went downhill quite quickly so I second that seeing a vet today would be best. Loads of vibes for your bun :wave:
 
Thank you both for your replies - by the time I'd finished typing Mum had already whisked her to the emergency vets, so now just waiting for news. How is EC diagnosed, out of interest?

Would her ears be producing a bad smell if they were infected, or not necessarily? I got mum to check her ears and she said they looked and smelt normal.Thank you for the vibes xx
 
There is a blood test for EC BUT it is not always 100% reliable and anyway you would not want to wait for the result before starting treatment (Fenbendazole and a non steroidal anti inflammatory.) Sometimes initially a corticosteroid injection may be given, although this comes with the risk of it having a detrimental effect on an already struggling immune system. The Vet would weigh up risks v benefits.

Middle ear infections do not necessarily present with obvious external signs such as a discharge or smell. Often skull xrays are needed to confirm a diagnosis of otitis media.

The Vet may well decide to cover all bases and treat for both EC and Otitis. So Fenbendazole (Panacur/Lapizole) an antibiotic, usually Baytril in the first instance and either a shot of corticosteroid or a non steroidal anti-inflammatory. If gut motility has reduced due to illness then prokinetics may also be needed.
 
Fifi has been treated with Lapizole and anti-biotics and had a health check. George has also been treated.

However, as we were discussing this on the phone, Fifi started to lose her balance badly and was unable to stand at all.

I am really starting to panic now.
 
Bink said:
Fifi has been treated with Lapizole and anti-biotics and had a health check. George has also been treated.

However, as we were discussing this on the phone, Fifi started to lose her balance badly and was unable to stand at all.

I am really starting to panic now.
Click to expand...

how long are you away for - and how bunny savvy is your mum ? (she sounds good!) I am in Cambridge as you know and may be able to pop round and give advice on care to back up anything vet said.
 
Bink said:
Fifi has been treated with Lapizole and anti-biotics and had a health check. George has also been treated.

However, as we were discussing this on the phone, Fifi started to lose her balance badly and was unable to stand at all.

I am really starting to panic now.
Click to expand...

She should also have been given either a corticosteroid injection or a non steroidal anti inflammatory eg Metacam. One or t'other is an absolute essential to reduce inflammation within the CNS. It is inflammation within the CNS that is causing her symptoms. If she has not received any form of anti-inflammatory then the Vet needs contacting again now to make sure that she does as without it she is likely to get a lot worse and fitting can sometimes occur

Sorry to be blunt but I just want to point out what *might* happen and for whoever is caring for her to be prepared.
 
Jack's-Jane said:
She should also have been given either a corticosteroid injection or a non steroidal anti inflammatory eg Metacam. One or t'other is an absolute essential to reduce inflammation within the CNS. It is inflammation within the CNS that is causing her symptoms. If she has not received any form of anti-inflammatory then the Vet needs contacting again now to make sure that she does as without it she is likely to get a lot worse and fitting can sometimes occur

Sorry to be blunt but I just want to point out what *might* happen and for whoever is caring for her to be prepared.
Click to expand...

yes - good point - I missed that!
 
I am back first thing tomorrow morning, thank goodness. Mum and I are on the same level of savvyness I would say. We have both learnt the same things at the same time generally and been through the same experiences with the four of them, but we have only had bunnies for two years so learning all the time. It tends to be me that picks things up from RU but she does pop in occasionally! That's a really kind offer that we may well take you up on when you have time.

I have lost contact with mum - suspect she has gone back to emergency vet, so once again waiting for further news. It sounds like she has gone downhill quite rapidly. Trying to remain rational and reading around previous EC threads on here - I see that recovery is possible but can be difficult. It just seems so sudden and severe. She is a little fighter though. She has always been strong in spirit.
 
Jack's-Jane said:
She should also have been given either a corticosteroid injection or a non steroidal anti inflammatory eg Metacam. One or t'other is an absolute essential to reduce inflammation within the CNS. It is inflammation within the CNS that is causing her symptoms. If she has not received any form of anti-inflammatory then the Vet needs contacting again now to make sure that she does as without it she is likely to get a lot worse and fitting can sometimes occur

Sorry to be blunt but I just want to point out what *might* happen and for whoever is caring for her to be prepared.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this, I am trying to find out now.
 
Have finally spoken with mum, Fifi did receive Metacam at the time of her first visit.

At the second visit she was unable to maintain any kind of balance, the vet has described it as "progressive EC". I can't believe this has all manifested within the space of a day - I understand that they can have it from birth without problems, but I am so shocked that it has taken hold of her so aggressively and so rapidly.

We have now been provided with a complete diet mix and Fifi is to be confined in a small space with towels around her to prop her up.

The vet didn't advise about George - I presume having her bonded partner with her would be more of a comfort than being separated from him?
 
Bink said:
Have finally spoken with mum, Fifi did receive Metacam at the time of her first visit.

At the second visit she was unable to maintain any kind of balance, the vet has described it as "progressive EC". I can't believe this has all manifested within the space of a day - I understand that they can have it from birth without problems, but I am so shocked that it has taken hold of her so aggressively and so rapidly.

We have now been provided with a complete diet mix and Fifi is to be confined in a small space with towels around her to prop her up.

The vet didn't advise about George - I presume having her bonded partner with her would be more of a comfort than being separated from him?
Click to expand...

Yes, BUT they need constant supervision as her 'odd' behaviour may distress George and *if* she fits he may think she is attacking him and thus attack her. So if they cannot be constantly monitored I would place them in separate crates next to each other

Have you been given Metacam to administer every 24 hours, this is essential at least in the initial stages.

Sending tons of vibes for her
 
Decided to come home early as I couldn't stand being away from Fifi overnight.

It was a huge shock I've got to say. Her head is tilted and her eyes are manic. She is a shadow of the bunny I left on Friday night.

Jane, we have set up a small crate for Fifi with rolled up towels all around the sides and George will have the largest crate we own. This way they can be side by side overnight without there being any chance of him hurting her. I think this is for the best, with her being totally unlike her usual self. Fifi will be fed every two hours and we have a vet appointment to attend tomorrow. Mum wasn't given any metacam to take away so will ask for this tomorrow.

Just want my little girl to be okay - this is a lot to take in in the space of a day - though I can't imagine how poor little Fifi must be feeling :(
 
Bink said:
Decided to come home early as I couldn't stand being away from Fifi overnight.

It was a huge shock I've got to say. Her head is tilted and her eyes are manic. She is a shadow of the bunny I left on Friday night.

Jane, we have set up a small crate for Fifi with rolled up towels all around the sides and George will have the largest crate we own. This way they can be side by side overnight without there being any chance of him hurting her. I think this is for the best, with her being totally unlike her usual self. Fifi will be fed every two hours and we have a vet appointment to attend tomorrow. Mum wasn't given any metacam to take away so will ask for this tomorrow.

Just want my little girl to be okay - this is a lot to take in in the space of a day - though I can't imagine how poor little Fifi must be feeling :(
Click to expand...

It will be an enormous shock for you. If she is still as bad tomorrow you may want to ask the Vet about giving a corticosteroid. Whilst it does carry some risks, as previously mentioned, it is sometimes a risk that has to be taken in the acute phase as getting the inflammation under control is essential.

I know it will be hard to hold onto hope, but it is possible for Fifi to recover, even from what sounds to be very severe symptoms. But any recovery will take time and she is likely to need lots of nursing care. I am sure that you will do all you can for her and she will take great comfort from that.
 
Good morning Jane,

We have had a bumpy night with little Fifi. We have been trying to feed her some recovery complete food in a syringe every two hours (sometimes it was 3 during the night). She is getting a bit fed up with this method of feeding. Atlhough it is complete for food and water, we have been trying to get her to take a bit of extra water. As yet she has not passed a wee or a poo, which is very concerning. George is in the indoor cage beside her for company which seemed to perk her up no end. She does seem alert and tenses when we come near, her breathing is now much less "anxious" and she has been grooming, esp where us amateurs have slopped the green goop all over her "bib". I take these to be small positive signs. We are off to see the vet in half an hour and will get her some more Metacam and hopefully gain a better understanding of EC.

She seems to be holding her head a little better. Her eyes are still moving back and forth but perhaps a little less frantically.
 
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