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Mimzy's Head Tilt U/D for Oct 4 - An Unexpected Joy post 221
- Thread starter MimzMum
- Start date
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
Oh goodness 
Millions of vibes being sent. Please keep us updated when you can xx
Millions of vibes being sent. Please keep us updated when you can xx
MimzMum
Wise Old Thumper
What a nightmare! First, Pip's seizure two days ago...now this!
It's pretty general that Mimzy doesn't feel 100% most days. He has spondylosis of the spine, possibly turning to scoliosis, plus a hip spur. He's usually on 0.15 ml twice a day of metacam, but recently I feared this was upsetting his stomach, so put him on 0.5 ml twice a day of ranitidine syrup.
Three days of this and he quickly looked even worse, plus began having mushed cecals which he never does... so stopped the ranitidine.
This morning he has been slumped in posture and not eating anything but soft food/forage so I thought it's about dental time. Made an appointment with his usual vet for Saturday as she goes to uni during the week.
Left him with his freeze bottles to keep him cool while I did other things but had my daughter keep an eye. She comes to fetch me 30 minutes later to say he looks worse. When I came to check on him his head was bobbing and he spooked at the sight of me (he is deaf) and ran, suddenly going sideways and wiping out altogether. Well THAT'S definitely not right...I reach in for him and he rolls....
It's easy enough to catch him and he's a slippery boy when well so I take him to the kitchen floor, him flailing unless I tuck him in my arms like a football. Put him on the floor, he wees, then begins going in circles.
More head bobbing. He faceplants. He continues in left hand circles ...stops...you can see he's trying to make himself go straight...it's just not working. I realize the head bobbing is his eyes trying to track so we bundle him in a carrier and off to the ER vet...you'd call it out of hours.
My son, dear thing, cancelled his plans for the day and went with me to keep Mimzy calm with fusses.
These vets aren't always bunny savvy so I have to remember everything I know about head tilt. She did examine him well...took his temp and said his left ear looked a mess. No culture. Gave him a shot of antibiotic, sub q fluids and some baytril to take home, plus a shot of acepromazine which was supposed to mellow him out till tomorrow. But he's already been up and down quite a bit and trying to eat/drink on his own. I'm scared he'll drown in his crock.
It's been horrid hot here lately which was why we thought Pip seized on Friday. Now I'm not sure. Is this just coincidence or could they both have either ear infections or E.C.?
Am very worried Fiver will be next.
Mimzy sleeping now...but when awake insists on moving about unless I touch him. Then he'll lay down for a fuss until he passes out again.
How should I proceed? I have the fenbendazole here that I insisted on getting for Pip (the on call vet wasn't convinced it was more than heat but she's doing better) but the dose the ER vet said I could use for Mimzy makes no sense. Our primary vet said use 0.5 ml once a day for my 5lb 10oz10 doe. The ER vet said use 0.6 ml for 3lb Mimzy. HUH?
I'll use the baytril she prescribed him for now even though it's not ideal because Mimzy does well on it and it will hopefully stabilize him, but should I add the fenbendazole or is that too much?
Should I give baytril pre-emptively to Fiver (same weight as Mimzy) or wait till he shows signs? What about Pip? She seems well for now but it was shocking to see Mimzy succumb in less than an hour. Should Fiver get the fenbendazole also? But I'm not sure I have the right dose for their weight.
Will Mimzy be okay on the injected abx overnight till I can talk to their primary vet tomorrow? I still don't get to talk with the vet who knows them best till Saturday. So we still fall short.
Please send prayers and vibes that no bun gets sick or worse this week...I can't take it. I will get NO SLEEP tonight I am certain.
What about cleanliness? How contagious could Mimzy be? They are not bonded, with separate pens but I handle everything and up till now thought I was doing a good job. Am worried even casual contact between one item or another will spread the sickness.
Oh...and stroppy Mister is apparently well enough to chew and dig on the nice towel I put in his pen as a bumper for him! :shock: Still amazed he is attempting to eat and drink. Everything I've read about head tilt buns is that they require syringe feeding.
It's pretty general that Mimzy doesn't feel 100% most days. He has spondylosis of the spine, possibly turning to scoliosis, plus a hip spur. He's usually on 0.15 ml twice a day of metacam, but recently I feared this was upsetting his stomach, so put him on 0.5 ml twice a day of ranitidine syrup.
Three days of this and he quickly looked even worse, plus began having mushed cecals which he never does... so stopped the ranitidine.
This morning he has been slumped in posture and not eating anything but soft food/forage so I thought it's about dental time. Made an appointment with his usual vet for Saturday as she goes to uni during the week.
Left him with his freeze bottles to keep him cool while I did other things but had my daughter keep an eye. She comes to fetch me 30 minutes later to say he looks worse. When I came to check on him his head was bobbing and he spooked at the sight of me (he is deaf) and ran, suddenly going sideways and wiping out altogether. Well THAT'S definitely not right...I reach in for him and he rolls....
It's easy enough to catch him and he's a slippery boy when well so I take him to the kitchen floor, him flailing unless I tuck him in my arms like a football. Put him on the floor, he wees, then begins going in circles.
More head bobbing. He faceplants. He continues in left hand circles ...stops...you can see he's trying to make himself go straight...it's just not working. I realize the head bobbing is his eyes trying to track so we bundle him in a carrier and off to the ER vet...you'd call it out of hours.
My son, dear thing, cancelled his plans for the day and went with me to keep Mimzy calm with fusses.
These vets aren't always bunny savvy so I have to remember everything I know about head tilt. She did examine him well...took his temp and said his left ear looked a mess. No culture. Gave him a shot of antibiotic, sub q fluids and some baytril to take home, plus a shot of acepromazine which was supposed to mellow him out till tomorrow. But he's already been up and down quite a bit and trying to eat/drink on his own. I'm scared he'll drown in his crock.
It's been horrid hot here lately which was why we thought Pip seized on Friday. Now I'm not sure. Is this just coincidence or could they both have either ear infections or E.C.?
Am very worried Fiver will be next.
Mimzy sleeping now...but when awake insists on moving about unless I touch him. Then he'll lay down for a fuss until he passes out again.
How should I proceed? I have the fenbendazole here that I insisted on getting for Pip (the on call vet wasn't convinced it was more than heat but she's doing better) but the dose the ER vet said I could use for Mimzy makes no sense. Our primary vet said use 0.5 ml once a day for my 5lb 10oz10 doe. The ER vet said use 0.6 ml for 3lb Mimzy. HUH?
I'll use the baytril she prescribed him for now even though it's not ideal because Mimzy does well on it and it will hopefully stabilize him, but should I add the fenbendazole or is that too much?
Should I give baytril pre-emptively to Fiver (same weight as Mimzy) or wait till he shows signs? What about Pip? She seems well for now but it was shocking to see Mimzy succumb in less than an hour.
Should Fiver get the fenbendazole also? But I'm not sure I have the right dose for their weight.Will Mimzy be okay on the injected abx overnight till I can talk to their primary vet tomorrow? I still don't get to talk with the vet who knows them best till Saturday. So we still fall short.
Please send prayers and vibes that no bun gets sick or worse this week...I can't take it. I will get NO SLEEP tonight I am certain.
What about cleanliness? How contagious could Mimzy be? They are not bonded, with separate pens but I handle everything and up till now thought I was doing a good job. Am worried even casual contact between one item or another will spread the sickness.
Oh...and stroppy Mister is apparently well enough to chew and dig on the nice towel I put in his pen as a bumper for him! :shock: Still amazed he is attempting to eat and drink. Everything I've read about head tilt buns is that they require syringe feeding.
Captain Helen
Wise Old Thumper
Oh no, how worrying I think I would give all the buns a 30 day course of fenbendazole. You say his ear was a mess, does the vet suspect an ear infection rather than EC? If so, I think a stronger antibiotic than baytril may be needed, but a C&S test may be the way to go. Sending lots of vibes for Mimzy xx
I think I would give all the buns a 30 day course of fenbendazole. You say his ear was a mess, does the vet suspect an ear infection rather than EC? If so, I think a stronger antibiotic than baytril may be needed, but a C&S test may be the way to go. Sending lots of vibes for Mimzy xx
Elena
Wise Old Thumper
Mischa continued to eat and drink. I'm convinced that's what got him through it. He hated the syringe feeding so we only tried it once, the rest of the time we let him eat on his own and handfed him if he struggled to get to the bowl.
I wouldn't think it that unlikely for a pair to both get ear infections. Pasteurella can be contagious especially if the second bunny is already under the weather.
Has he had painkiller? metacam is also anti-inflammatory so helps with the tilt also. He may need something stronger than baytril. Mischa had baytril but it took a while to get working.
I wouldn't think it that unlikely for a pair to both get ear infections. Pasteurella can be contagious especially if the second bunny is already under the weather.
Has he had painkiller? metacam is also anti-inflammatory so helps with the tilt also. He may need something stronger than baytril. Mischa had baytril but it took a while to get working.
Sorry I can't help but sending millions of vibes for Mimzy.
MimzMum
Wise Old Thumper
Going in for follow up at 2:30 today.
He's doing....well I can't say okay because he's just not, really, but I am just thankful for his life at the moment, but he's not making many poos and I can't keep towels in with him as he eats them :roll:
Any questions you feel I should ask the vet, please advise.
Thanks again for all the vibes. This is going to be a long road. I hate seeing him like this. It makes me so sad.
He's doing....well I can't say okay because he's just not, really, but I am just thankful for his life at the moment, but he's not making many poos and I can't keep towels in with him as he eats them :roll:
Any questions you feel I should ask the vet, please advise.
Thanks again for all the vibes.
This is going to be a long road. I hate seeing him like this. It makes me so sad. 
lilbun
Warren Veteran
I'm sorry to hear about Mimzy's head tilt.
Ideally a culture would have been done on the ear, but it's probably too late now he's had antibiotics.
I agree that more effective antibiotics may be required so I would ask about these if you don't see a rapid improvement.
Just a thought but is there any chance he or Pip could have licked or chewed anything containing lead, e.g lead paint?
Ideally a culture would have been done on the ear, but it's probably too late now he's had antibiotics.
I agree that more effective antibiotics may be required so I would ask about these if you don't see a rapid improvement.
Just a thought but is there any chance he or Pip could have licked or chewed anything containing lead, e.g lead paint?
Coineanach
Wise Old Thumper
Afraid I don't have any useful advice for you but just wanted to send some vibes for your guys. And a big *hug* for you as it is so stressful dealing with sick bunnies.
Chin up, we're thinking of you xx
Chin up, we're thinking of you xx
MimzMum
Wise Old Thumper
Thanks again for all the vibes and good wishes.
No lilbun, there is no lead paint they could've gotten into. The only thing Mimzy has been gnawing at lately is the bars of his night pen (which he is now relegated to) and this is a rabbit specific brand, I would be shocked and dismayed if I were to find the bar paint was toxic.
But Pip doesn't do this anyway, so.....
Mimzy is suspected to have pasturella although a successful culture has never confirmed this. He has had all the earmarks of it for some years with recurrent URI's. Sadly he's had bonding attempts with both Pip and Fiver over his lifetime. I fear whatever may be causing this is longstanding and well-established in all three buns.
The vet today did culture his ear but didn't find many bacteria...but of course the baytril may have killed them already. She claimed there was 'something white' in the gunk in his ear but claimed it wasn't pus. She wants me to go ahead and give fenbendazole to all three buns but I forgot to write down the boys' dose size. Will have to get it in the a.m. by phone.
He got fluids and we have a bag of them to administer up to twice a day. We also have metaclop which I just gave him two hours ago. Still he's not making normal poos or wee. I'm used to much higher volumes/size.
He's still trying to eat by himself but he can't find his water crock well. He just spins and then loses his way. Then he falls.
When he can't get to his food or water he just turns to the wall and slides into a miserable hunched ball.
We get some meclazine tomorrow. Hopefully this will help stop his spinning and he might eat more. He does want veggies but he can't live on those alone. How often should I be trying to assist his mealtimes? Should he eat once an hour or more often/less often?
He will eat pellets but I'd rather he had hay. I'll take what I can get though.
I would've asked for more acepromazine to relax him but I feared be wouldn't eat at all.
I wonder if I should up his metacam to 0.2ml twice a day?
I'm just shattered. Hardly any sleep since Pip's seizure. Really dragging and out of it.
Please...any more vibes going spare...we could really use them. Thank you.
No lilbun, there is no lead paint they could've gotten into. The only thing Mimzy has been gnawing at lately is the bars of his night pen (which he is now relegated to) and this is a rabbit specific brand, I would be shocked and dismayed if I were to find the bar paint was toxic.
But Pip doesn't do this anyway, so.....
Mimzy is suspected to have pasturella although a successful culture has never confirmed this. He has had all the earmarks of it for some years with recurrent URI's. Sadly he's had bonding attempts with both Pip and Fiver over his lifetime. I fear whatever may be causing this is longstanding and well-established in all three buns.
The vet today did culture his ear but didn't find many bacteria...but of course the baytril may have killed them already. She claimed there was 'something white' in the gunk in his ear but claimed it wasn't pus. She wants me to go ahead and give fenbendazole to all three buns but I forgot to write down the boys' dose size. Will have to get it in the a.m. by phone.
He got fluids and we have a bag of them to administer up to twice a day. We also have metaclop which I just gave him two hours ago. Still he's not making normal poos or wee. I'm used to much higher volumes/size.
He's still trying to eat by himself but he can't find his water crock well. He just spins and then loses his way. Then he falls.
When he can't get to his food or water he just turns to the wall and slides into a miserable hunched ball.
We get some meclazine tomorrow. Hopefully this will help stop his spinning and he might eat more. He does want veggies but he can't live on those alone. How often should I be trying to assist his mealtimes? Should he eat once an hour or more often/less often?
He will eat pellets but I'd rather he had hay. I'll take what I can get though.
I would've asked for more acepromazine to relax him but I feared be wouldn't eat at all.
I wonder if I should up his metacam to 0.2ml twice a day?
I'm just shattered. Hardly any sleep since Pip's seizure. Really dragging and out of it.
Please...any more vibes going spare...we could really use them. Thank you.
MimzMum
Wise Old Thumper
Thank you minilop 1. Noserubs to Mabel and Sox.
Well he's still with us today. He's taken to crashing around his pen to let me know he wants something. That he still wants anything is a win. :thumb:
He's still very unsteady but we got him meclazine today and it seems to be helping a bit. He doesn't wipe out as much when he walks although one hind limb does rise up and he bobbles. His head tilts at varying degrees during the day. Right after meds it's worse. Will begin 0.4ml of fenbendazole on him (and Fiver as a precaution) tonight. Just trying to keep him eating.
His poor cecals are a mess. He doesn't seem to be getting too dirty on his bum though so he must have figured out how to wash that far down. All his fluids are going in and staying in, he makes about half the amount of wee as before. His droppings are at bare minimum as long as he has his metaclop. There's a few bigger ones now though. He's still not eating enough is my guess. But he tries. He'll go for his hay without my help.
I'll have to get his sub q's in before bed tonight but he gets so stressed being handled that doesn't help my lack of confidence doing this. OH is better with needles since his Grandpa was diabetic and he had to give him his insulin shots. In the meantime I keep offering him his crock, bottle or give fluids by mouth.
Only three hours sleep last night. I am exhausted. If anyone remembers any tips to keep him going that I've missed, please let me know. Thanks.
Mimzy is napping...so I will too. Zzzzzzzzzz
Noserubs to Mabel and Sox.Well he's still with us today. He's taken to crashing around his pen to let me know he wants something. That he still wants anything is a win. :thumb:
He's still very unsteady but we got him meclazine today and it seems to be helping a bit. He doesn't wipe out as much when he walks although one hind limb does rise up and he bobbles. His head tilts at varying degrees during the day. Right after meds it's worse. Will begin 0.4ml of fenbendazole on him (and Fiver as a precaution) tonight. Just trying to keep him eating.
His poor cecals are a mess. He doesn't seem to be getting too dirty on his bum though so he must have figured out how to wash that far down. All his fluids are going in and staying in, he makes about half the amount of wee as before. His droppings are at bare minimum as long as he has his metaclop. There's a few bigger ones now though. He's still not eating enough is my guess. But he tries. He'll go for his hay without my help.
I'll have to get his sub q's in before bed tonight but he gets so stressed being handled that doesn't help my lack of confidence doing this. OH is better with needles since his Grandpa was diabetic and he had to give him his insulin shots. In the meantime I keep offering him his crock, bottle or give fluids by mouth.
Only three hours sleep last night. I am exhausted. If anyone remembers any tips to keep him going that I've missed, please let me know. Thanks.
Mimzy is napping...so I will too. Zzzzzzzzzz
prettylupin
Wise Old Thumper
Very stressful and exhausting for you. So sorry to see that Mimzy is now poorly too especially after Pip's seizure You must be totally exhausted. Am sure you are doing all you can, I haven't had time to read the whole thread, apologies, but am thinking of you both and if I think of anything I will post again. Massive vibes xx
You must be totally exhausted. Am sure you are doing all you can, I haven't had time to read the whole thread, apologies, but am thinking of you both and if I think of anything I will post again. Massive vibes xxI'm sooo sorry to hear this. Lots of prayers coming your way.
Re pasteurella/ URI. Although they are bacterial diseases & should be contagious, it's actually rare for a partner bun to catch them. There are only a very few partner buns with snuffles on RU. I was surprised that different pathogens were cultured from the 2 buns. The big exception was Maizey's colony of conti's with MRSA but that bug stays viable & can infect for at least 3 months.
EC is much more contagious - you have to treat all the buns at the same time.
An URI can spread to the middle ear very easily along the eustachian tube which connects to the back of the nasal space.
Pain relief for the arthitis & earache will be important here. Pain depresses a rabbits immune system so much. They need to take metacam x2 daily for proper pain relief. As long as Mimzy is passing plenty of urine the risks are minimal. (Thumper had 0.6ml metacam x2 daily for nearly a year & no signs of kidney damage)
Echinacea & Golden seal extract on the net from Natures Answers given on a leaf of their favourite food - 2 drops x3 daily for a 3 kilo bun, really helps to reduce the effect of stress on the immune system, (& also on stasis) As they improve you can tail back to x2 daily.
Steam inhalations are very helpful for humans with otitis media - for rabbits we have to nebulise with saline to get the same effect.
My current bun, Benjie with pasteurellosis, (Abscesses & URI) sits on my lap without restraint while I waft the saline mist at his nose. However in Mimzy's case it's a matter of judgment. I wouldn't do anything which causes more stress. You can see Benjie being nebulised towards the end of http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...les-amp-saline-nebuliser-for-rabbit-amp-owner!. There are instructions how to make your own saline there too.
With every good wish for you both. Judyx
Re pasteurella/ URI. Although they are bacterial diseases & should be contagious, it's actually rare for a partner bun to catch them. There are only a very few partner buns with snuffles on RU. I was surprised that different pathogens were cultured from the 2 buns. The big exception was Maizey's colony of conti's with MRSA but that bug stays viable & can infect for at least 3 months.
EC is much more contagious - you have to treat all the buns at the same time.
An URI can spread to the middle ear very easily along the eustachian tube which connects to the back of the nasal space.
Pain relief for the arthitis & earache will be important here. Pain depresses a rabbits immune system so much. They need to take metacam x2 daily for proper pain relief. As long as Mimzy is passing plenty of urine the risks are minimal. (Thumper had 0.6ml metacam x2 daily for nearly a year & no signs of kidney damage)
Echinacea & Golden seal extract on the net from Natures Answers given on a leaf of their favourite food - 2 drops x3 daily for a 3 kilo bun, really helps to reduce the effect of stress on the immune system, (& also on stasis) As they improve you can tail back to x2 daily.
Steam inhalations are very helpful for humans with otitis media - for rabbits we have to nebulise with saline to get the same effect.
My current bun, Benjie with pasteurellosis, (Abscesses & URI) sits on my lap without restraint while I waft the saline mist at his nose. However in Mimzy's case it's a matter of judgment. I wouldn't do anything which causes more stress. You can see Benjie being nebulised towards the end of http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...les-amp-saline-nebuliser-for-rabbit-amp-owner!. There are instructions how to make your own saline there too.
With every good wish for you both. Judyx
lilbun
Warren Veteran
I hope you and Mimzy are hanging on in there.
With Tippex's head tilt I let her eat pretty much wht she wanted, which in her case was pear, parsley and carrot tops, plus wild greens, hand picked grass etc. It may not be ideal to have so much fruit but the most important thing short term is that they eat something and more importantly get plenty of fluid from their food whilst drinking is difficult.
Lots more vibes for Mimzy, and I hope you manage to get some sleep xx
With Tippex's head tilt I let her eat pretty much wht she wanted, which in her case was pear, parsley and carrot tops, plus wild greens, hand picked grass etc. It may not be ideal to have so much fruit but the most important thing short term is that they eat something and more importantly get plenty of fluid from their food whilst drinking is difficult.
Lots more vibes for Mimzy, and I hope you manage to get some sleep xx
