messy bum - help please

Hiya :wave:

One of our 2 year old minilops has had a messy bum for about four months now! There were no changes in her diet (except a friend who fed them carrots while we were on holiday in January) but for some reason she has a constantly messy bum!

We took her to the vets start of February and he gave her antibiotics to go in her water but they didn't do anything to help. We tried as hard as we could to keep her clean using warm water and cotton wool but she just gets messy again within a day. We took her back again this week and he just said that it's because of her age and we just have to carry on cleaning her as often as we can. Is this really normal??

Also, we don't if it's her or the male bun she lives with but one of them has started to go to the toilet all over the hutch! This started about the same time as Gracie's bum started getting messy. They were litter trained for 18 months but now we find mess all over the hutch - some weeing, sometimes softer poos - where they spend most of their day just sat upstairs (even though they always have the whole lawn open to them) there are smudges of poo and soft poos. Freddie, who she lives with, has had no problems with messy bum at all! (Apart from today where his poo looks a bit soft and he had a tiny bit on his fur but I think that's just from him binging on new leaves this afternoon haha).

Their diet is just burgess excel dwarf rabbit pellets and hay, no veg or fruit but dandelions and sometimes bun safe plants and leaves from the garden or herbs. Another thing that might be noteworthy is that we put newspaper in to line their hutch underneath straw and the other day I noticed that rather than just shredding it Gracie had started to actually eat it - could this be a problem?

Sorry it's such a long post I just wanted to get as much info in for you as possible! Is this really just natural as they get older? Is there anything I can do or change to stop it or is it just going to be that I have to carry on cleaning her to try and keep it as minimal as possible?

Any experiences you've had or info would be so helpful! Thank you so so much in advance x

:wave: I'll try and answer as many of the questions as possible.

Firstly, a messy bum is NOT age related and expected, unless there's another condition e.g. arthritis which is stopping the bun carrying out its normal caeotrophic behaviour. I have a 9 1/2 year old bun who has never needed his butt cleaned *touches wood*

Personally I would really reduce the pellets and increase the hay and cut out everything else. Sounds cruel but you need to find out what's not agreeing with her food wise - you can gradually introduce stuff back and hopefully find the trigger.
As for the litter training, are they neutered/ spayed?

I would suggest consulting a different Vet

There are numerous reasons as to why a Rabbit gets a mucky bum - Dental problems, dietary issues (too much protein/carbohydrate not enough fibre- Excel Pellets are known to cause problems for many Rabbits), pain, stress........

http://wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/CaecotrophAccumRabbit.html

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

Did the Vet actually check her teeth ?

How much pellet feed are you giving. An average 2.5kg Rabbit needs no more than an eggcupful a day. 80-90% of their diet should be hay.

In this weather you will need to be vigilant re flystrike. A mucky bum puts a Rabbit at VERY high risk.

http://www.houserabbit.co.uk/resources/content/leaflet_pdfs/flystrike_sep_05.pdf

luvabun said:

:wave: I'll try and answer as many of the questions as possible.

Firstly, a messy bum is NOT age related and expected, unless there's another condition e.g. arthritis which is stopping the bun carrying out its normal caeotrophic behaviour. I have a 9 1/2 year old bun who has never needed his butt cleaned *touches wood*

Personally I would really reduce the pellets and increase the hay and cut out everything else. Sounds cruel but you need to find out what's not agreeing with her food wise - you can gradually introduce stuff back and hopefully find the trigger.
As for the litter training, are they neutered/ spayed?

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Hi luvabun!

Thanks for responding Yes they were both neutered/spayed as soon as they were old enough so they could liver together and after that we've never had any trouble with the training until now which is why it's so odd!

I've cut out pellets as of today and I'm going to stop everything else too, just give them hay and see if that makes a difference. Do you know how long would be too long to keep them on just hay for? I'd like to give it a week or so at least to give it a chance but I don't know if that'd just be mean for them to not have pellets or anything else at all?

I didn't think it was age related - and even if it was they're only 2 which I thought was still young for bunnies! I just really want it sorted, the vets aren't much help which is a shame because up until this I'd thought they were great! It's so horrid seeing her so messy all the time and having no idea how to fix it!

x

Jack's-Jane said:

I would suggest consulting a different Vet

There are numerous reasons as to why a Rabbit gets a mucky bum - Dental problems, dietary issues (too much protein/carbohydrate not enough fibre- Excel Pellets are known to cause problems for many Rabbits), pain, stress........

http://wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/CaecotrophAccumRabbit.html

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

Did the Vet actually check her teeth ?

How much pellet feed are you giving. An average 2.5kg Rabbit needs no more than an eggcupful a day. 80-90% of their diet should be hay.

In this weather you will need to be vigilant re flystrike. A mucky bum puts a Rabbit at VERY high risk.

http://www.houserabbit.co.uk/resources/content/leaflet_pdfs/flystrike_sep_05.pdf

Click to expand...

Yep the vet checked her teeth and said they were fine I worried about flystrike too now it's getting hotter and he gave us RearGuard to prevent it along with keeping her clean.

I had no idea about problems with Excel! They've been fed them since we got them at 8/10 weeks without any problems up until now but I'll change it asap! Which pellets would you recommend I give them instead once I reintroduce them to foods other than hay? And should I go straight into giving them the new ones or ease them into it and mix it with the Excel? I've been feeding them two eggcup sized scoops twice a day between the two of them - as far as I could tell from the bag of food that was the advised amount :? - mixed with readigrass (even though they munch on the lawn all day) but I'll cut that right down when I give them pellets again.

She seems her normal self, hopping around as usual so I don't think she's in pain? And as far as I know there's been nothing to be causing her stress so do you think it's probably just her diet?

Thank you so much for your help!!
x

lovebun said:

Yep the vet checked her teeth and said they were fine I worried about flystrike too now it's getting hotter and he gave us RearGuard to prevent it along with keeping her clean.

I had no idea about problems with Excel! They've been fed them since we got them at 8/10 weeks without any problems up until now but I'll change it asap! Which pellets would you recommend I give them instead once I reintroduce them to foods other than hay? And should I go straight into giving them the new ones or ease them into it and mix it with the Excel? I've been feeding them two eggcup sized scoops twice a day between the two of them - as far as I could tell from the bag of food that was the advised amount :? - mixed with readigrass (even though they munch on the lawn all day) but I'll cut that right down when I give them pellets again.

She seems her normal self, hopping around as usual so I don't think she's in pain? And as far as I know there's been nothing to be causing her stress so do you think it's probably just her diet?

Thank you so much for your help!!
x

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Yes, I think you are feeding her too much protein.

If she eats lots of hay and grass then she really does not need more than ONE eggcupful of pellets ONCE a day.

Science Selective Pellets seem to suit most Rabbits, but again they only require a TINY amount a day

Brambles might be helpful to feed her too

Readigrass is high in protein so I'd cut that out completely for now.

Jane has given you some excellent advice there (as always).

I would definatley cut out the readigrass and the pellets.

The spring grass can have an effect too especially if it is not introduced gradually - Brambles are helpful to counter this as jane said - you can flatten the spines on the back of the leaves with the back of a spoon if you like.

I use Science Selective pellets but Oxbow are also a popular choice.

Where abouts are you in Bucks, perhaps someone can recommend a more rabbit savvy vet - I'm in Herts so not a million miles away probably.

Oh thank you all so much!

For the time being I'm going to completely cut out the pellets, probably until Tuesday? I'm going to pop up to the petshop tomorrow and get Science Selective pellets to give them - will I have to gradually introduce them mixed with Excel or will I be ok to just give them to them straight away? I'll make sure to only feed them 1 eggcup each per day at most, probably less in the summer while they're out so much (thanks so much for that! I had no idea I was overfeeding them!). I'm going to get rid of the readigrass too, they don't need it now anyway

Dustyrabbit I'm in Milton Keynes - if anybody knows of any rabbit savvy vets it'd be such a help!!

Thank you AGAIN
x

ETA: I'm going to go on a hunt for brambles too! How do they help them do you know?

I had the same problem with one of my outside buns, I went on to the SS pellets cut out a lot of veg apart from kale and a bit of spring greens ( on advice from very good bunny vet at our practice ) and she is much better, I still check her just in case but all seems a lot better and not had to wash her for at least a month now, it did take a good few months to settle down, don't know if that is the norm or just her and I tried different amounts of veg till I worked out what suited her. Hope that helps as well.

Hi
Another vote for lots of hay and a nice bowl of fresh water.

I don't think the excel packet is very helpful, it recommends way too much so I'm sure there are lots of bunnies having loads.

I use SS, some places sell trial size packs which are great for seeing if your bun likes it and how they get on. I'm no expert but I would think you could introduce SS very slowly after she's been on a hay only diet for a little while and if she's cleaner (and slow for your other bun too).

Hope you see some improvement soon but from what I've read it can take a while. A post in rabbit chat might be the quickest way to find a rabbit savvy vet in MK.

:wave: And another vote for cutting out Readigrass.

Seeing as they are neutered and spayed, the change in litter habits is a mystery :?

Good luck

lovebun said:

Oh thank you all so much!

For the time being I'm going to completely cut out the pellets, probably until Tuesday? I'm going to pop up to the petshop tomorrow and get Science Selective pellets to give them - will I have to gradually introduce them mixed with Excel or will I be ok to just give them to them straight away?

Click to expand...

:wave: Gradually introduce them mixed with the Excel

If you have cut out the Excell pellets, and you can safely do so if the rabbits are otherwise healthy, and you are feeding hay and have fresh water available there is no need to reintroduce the Excell if you wish to change to SS (you may have to get these at your vets or a large pet store like Kennelgate) there is no value in going back to Excell in any way (if they are causing the messy bum you will just start it off again) just very slowly introduce the SS, even just one a day each like a treat and building to 2 after a few days and so on but it is perfectly possible to keep a rabbit healthy on a pellet free diet and many members do.

It has been noted that wild buns eat brambles and it is apparantly an old remedy for loose stools caused by too much spring grass etc, I think its all in the kind of fibre contained and which part of the gut it acts apon.

Good luck!

Thank you all so much for your help!!

We've kept them both of them off the pellets and readigrass since Friday, just giving them lots of hay and fresh water and already Gracie's bum is looking SO much better

I'm thinking now I'm going to try and keep them on a pellet free diet if possible

x

That's a great start