Pasturella? update 03/03/11 p21

I never seem to get many responses to my threads but I really need some input.
Jeremy has has his third trip to the vet today who now thinks the allergy/virus is actually an underlying respitory infection such as pasturella. He now has coloured discharge from his nose as well as the sneezing. Its not confirmed yet however, the vet has advised that if it is pasturella or something similar, the risk to my other bunnies (Lilou, Toby, Kira and Benji) would be very high and that I will have to look to either rehome him as a single bun or worse (she didn't actually say the words but you know). :shock:
What do you think? I have got 2 week course of Baytril and have to go back next week if I want swabs and stuff taking. P@H would take him back but will presumably PTS? Where do I go from here?

He is currently in my bedroom away from the others.

I don't have experience with this but from what I have read on here you are doing the right things. I don't believe your bun would need pts over this - at least i've never heard of anyone doing this before. Hopefully someone will come and comment soon. Sending your little bunny healing vibes x

There's differing views on this, so it might be worth talking to other vets and seeing what their opinions are.

An example is Graham L who has Ginger who has full on pastuerella and is bonded with Biccy and Biccy has so far completely been healthy.

So it doesn't have to be a death sentence, and it dosn't have to mean rehoming.

I would also, however, suggest looking at more effective antibiotics for pastuerella, than Baytril. Maybe have a read of Gray's threads about Ginger. There are many other people on here who have a bunny with pastuerella and other bunnies too, some of them are also bonded, so don't immediately think you need to remove the bunny from your household. Do some good research and talk to some different vets (maybe ask for a recommendation from a vets from here?).

What colour discharge?

I'm not sure what Jeremy's background is, but I think people have had success in the past claiming vets fees back from Pets at Home. I'm not sure if rabbits from the adoption centre would be covered, but their other rabbits should be.

Sorry your bunny isn't well. There is a very slim risk of another bunny catching pasturella. I have two with respiratory/pasturella systems and both their partners have been fine and Merlin had this when I got him about 1.5 years ago.

I find baytril isn't good at treating my bunnies. I have depocillin injections after having swabs and xrays taken.

Hi Could I ask how old is your bunny & how long have you had him?

If he is bonded with the other bunnies I personally wouldn't separate him from them- chances are if it is pasteurella or anther bacteria they will have been exposed already- but that doesn't mean they will ever show any symptoms.

Have you started the antibiotics already? Ideally it is best to do the swab for C&S first- the results will be unreliable if he is already on antibiotics.

He is likely to need a long course of antibiotics (possibly a combination) to keep the infection at bay but so long as he is generally happy, eating well and not too distressed I wouldn't consider PTS at this stage xx

Hiya, if it's any consolation our bunny had Pasturella when she was only 3 months old. We sat up with her several nights to ensure she had her medication around the clock, even putting a mask over her face from a facial steamer to help her breathe. She was completely off her legs and the vet said she wouldn't last more than 24 hours. We proved him wrong, with care and persistance she slowly made full recovery and went on to have 2 babies at the age of 6 months. The husbun who had always been kept with her thankfully didn't contract the virus. It is a slow process but one that can be conquered, stay positive and give plenty of tlc. xx

Agree with all of the above re the PTS issue. My girlie was bonded and her friend was fine. It depends on the bun and their immune system. I wouldn't separate either as this will cause stress and upset to both and will not help Jeremy's condition. Whatever treatment you and your vet decide on Jeremy can live a very happy life as a snuffle bun. He just needs love and TLC and a mummy/daddy who keeps an eye on how he's doing and reviews things as and when. Definitely no need to PTS or separate. Good luck.

As nearly all bunnys carry pasturella- it really doesn't matter if your other bunnys have it or not.

Rabbits react very differently to this- it can be via eye discharge or sneezing or breathing problems etc.

If you have been handling your pasturella bunny and others without antibacterial or gloves, chances are you could have transfered it anyway and they may or may not go on to develop symptoms later.

In my experience pasturella bunnys are usually very stressed or scared buns which is often a trigger of pasturellla.

I have had varying views by vets on the subject. I have been told if there is a foot distance between bunnys it can't spread. I have also been told that pasturella can live on surfaces and water for upto two weeks.

It's not something to put a bunny down over. I recently lost one of my buns to chronic pasturella and it's heart breaking but they can live a normal happy life for many years after being diagnosed.

Tika has symtoms of the illness but we never got a clear diagnosis. Harvey her hubby never got it. I'm sorry to hear your bunny is unwell and I hope that he will be ok.

i think something stronger than baytril would be needed. also, the vet can't know for sure what it is until a c+s test has been done. there is still lots to try before thinking of other options..

my two are brothers and both have respiratory problems, but when bisc got stable quickly and matt didn't, he didn't catch it back as they had different strains and 'make up' of bacteria's, even though they are related. it's like something we would get.. it could still affect each member differently. so i wouldn't separate them as they will have been exposed to it already anyway, and it's not as contagious as you read about according to my vet.

it can be a long process though to find the correct treatment. sometimes you don't and you have to find something to keep them stable, but there are alot of different things to try before this so hopefully you will find something that works.

it does take a while as i said.. as the medication has to get deep into the spores of the nose where infection can take longer to get rid of and of course to prevent any being left at all... my vet starts with a minimum 6 week course of treatment at the first signs of anything like this as it can be so hard to get under control.. as we found out.

the other issues is that sometimes a c+s test will show medications that should work, but they don't always because the bacteria change alot, and also sometimes it is unable to 'get through' if there is a build up of mucus or any damage in the nose tissues.. so nebulising is a brilliant way to treat it.

i think find a rabbit savvy vet if you haven't already and go with their treatment plan.. they all do things slightly differently. but i agree something stronger is needed and as soon as possible before any damage could be done. basically getting it under control as soon as possible.

my vet starts with penicillin injections first, he says they do really well for the majority of rabbits. they worked for bisc after three months of treatment. unfortunately matt had it worse and it took a very long time to get him stable. now they are on life long treatment but are still happy and they cope well with it.

but i think a c+s test would be needed to find out exactly what's going on first, as only approx a third of cases are pasturella, a third bordatella and a third tend to be just a mix of different bacterias.

sorry, i'm rambling on... ... but yes, baytril is what my two had for a week, then it would flare up again, then more baytril... by this time the infection had built up in the spores of the nose and caused damage and by the time we went to the rabbit vet, we faced a long battle really to get to stable on life long treatment.

hope some of this helps. people have different experiences and not all vets do things the same but i just wanted to share our experience of it all.

x

Depocillin is what mine are on who suffer with it. Also tiacil is good for any eye problems. Ronaxon has been given and was okay in addition to baytril.

Hi, thanks for the responses. To clarify, I've had Jeremy 3 weeks. He is currently in my bedroom, my other bunnies are in the yard. I got him from the P@H rehoming section in York, they said he had an allergy to woodshavings, however he had not been on wood shavings for 3 weeks before I got him and I have him on the cat litter they recommended. He is approx 17weeks. His sneezing has gradually got worse and the discharge from his nose has gone from clear to a yellow/greeny colour.

The vet has said currently she won't vaccinate him and if it is pasturella she wouldn't want to castrate due to an increased risk of death under anastetic, so he wouldn't be able to be bonded with my other four as it stands now.

I have tried to be careful washing my hands between contacts etc as he was a new bunny. I'm glad the picture doesn't seem to be as bad as I thought it was going to be.

blue_vix said:

Hi, thanks for the responses. To clarify, I've had Jeremy 3 weeks. He is currently in my bedroom, my other bunnies are in the yard. I got him from the P@H rehoming section in York, they said he had an allergy to woodshavings, however he had not been on wood shavings for 3 weeks before I got him and I have him on the cat litter they recommended. He is approx 17weeks. His sneezing has gradually got worse and the discharge from his nose has gone from clear to a yellow/greeny colour.

The vet has said currently she won't vaccinate him and if it is pasturella she wouldn't want to castrate due to an increased risk of death under anastetic, so he wouldn't be able to be bonded with my other four as it stands now.

I have tried to be careful washing my hands between contacts etc as he was a new bunny. I'm glad the picture doesn't seem to be as bad as I thought it was going to be.

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As long as you keep separate and wash your hands with antibacterial you should be fine- i used to use latex gloves because my hands started getting sore from all the chemicals i use on them. My snuffle bun adonia died a month after vaccination against mixi. I don't know it was anything to do with that or contributed, but it could have been a factor i suppose besides other things. I did used to vaccinate her successfully in her earlier days with it. I never neutered her for the same reason- far to high risk with breathing problems etc. What do you think you will do now then- are you going to keep or rehome? I imagine it will be difficult to rehome a pasturella bun. If you get stuck let me know- i have a soft spot for buns with pasturella.

hi there, i have two snuffle buns (bunnies with pasturella) dora who gets it occasionally has a week long course of baytril or septrin and then is fine and coco who generally sneezes every few days and sometimes has snotty nose but only goes onto meds again septrin when he isnt right or doesnt eat else it would be a daily thing as a 2week course will cure him for about 2 weeks then it comes back, its probebly more prone to it because he is older but i hear many young bunnies can have it to. now coco is bonded to kitty and dora is bonded to arthur both were bonded before they showed signs of snuffles BUT even so so many buns react differntly and kitty and arthur have not shown any signs so i wouldnt bother worrying too much about the passing from one to another i would bond him with a nother bunny a single bun or possibly with another snuffle bun, wash your hands and use that antibacterial gel when handling any imuno compromised buns or bunnies that otherwise have no contact with him. In regards to neutering i think if the snuffles can be cleared up enough that its not affecting breathing through a long course of a stronger antibiotic (a swab can be taken to determine the most effective one) then i see no reason (so long as he is otherwise healthy) why a rabbit savvy vet wouldnt neuter him?! of course you also have the option of keeping him as a solo bunny but if indoors its likely unneutered he will spray x

Well Jeremy has been to the vet today. She had to make him drowsy with gas to get a swab but I should know for sure if he has pasturella or not by wednesday next week, then I can make my decisions from there. He is a lot perkier again though and throwing his bell toy at me!

I have a pasturella bun but I wouldn't dare seperate him from his friend. He is a very shy and timid bun and I don't think he would cope if he was seperated. He gets his confidence from snoopy so witout him I know he would be a wreck.

We went to the vets today as he has flared up again, and we are starting engemycin on monday S/C injection. He also has bisolvon powder to help clear the secretions and until the injections come in on monday he has some baytril just to tie him over.

I think the stress of seperating him would be more stressful than the disease itself, as when he is happy he is very happy, he gets bursts of confidence and comes out of his shell.

xxx

Its very difficult the whole bonding question, I would have great ethical issues with bonding him with a healthy rabbit if te pasturella is confirmed because it seems wrong to knowingly put a bun at risk of being ill and in pain, even though their is a chance they won't be affected. If he was already bonded I wouldn't split them but as he's a single bun I dont know. He's fine as a single house bun with me at the min because I am in nearly all day every day and he has more free range time than he does in the hutch but come the end of may I will have a 10 week full time placement, then I'l be finished uni and looking for a full time job, at which point he will be left on his own all day.
I am just trying to keep and open mind til I get the results back.

Hi

Although I agree that the risks of a GA can be greater for a snuffle bunny I had my girl neutered (at that stage she was fairly early on in her illness). As she was also a dental bunny she had regular GAs throughout her life and always coped really well. I knew it was a greater risk because of her condition but it was one I felt I had to take to keep her mouth comfortable and her eating etc. Sometimes compromises have to be made after considering all the facts and veterinary advice etc and only you can decide what is best for your bun. Good luck with Jeremy.