Slow Gut UD Post 28

What can I do for a rabbit who has a slow gut (this is ongoing, not specific gut slowdown)?

She drinking like a trojan, lots of exercise, stuffs the hay, has pro fibre pellets and also, her output is a grand size (normally bigger than an average pea) but yet her gut is still slow and feels 'doughy' to my vet. She also has 6 drops of Metacam a day.

Is there anything else I can do, or feed? Any leaves (Judy?)?

Thanks in advance.

Hi there :wave:

My 1st. thought is what she's on metacam for, & whether it's giving enough pain relief for her gut to work properly.
eg if it's an arthritic problem could we potentiate the metacam with acupuncture.

thumps_ said:

Hi there :wave:

My 1st. thought is what she's on metacam for, & whether it's giving enough pain relief for her gut to work properly.
eg if it's an arthritic problem could we potentiate the metacam with acupuncture.

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:wave: Good evening genius, thank you for reading my thread and replying

She is on Metacam for dental issues. Mayb I should give more for a couple of days and then see how she goes? When Badger was her weight he was allowed 17 drops a day, and she is only on 6 (increased last month from 2- we know she is deteriorating and we are losing her, sadly, just want to make her happy).

Oh Sky_O I'm so sorry that you've yet another deteriorating bunny.

I hope the increase in metacam helps. It's good for bone/tooth pain. Please keep us updated.

Thanks Judy. I'll hike it right up and if it helps then wait until she is stable and see how much I can reduce it by.

She's already lived longer than anyone ever hoped She's my little miracle, and a very snuggly miracle at that.

Sky-O said:

Thanks Judy. I'll hike it right up and if it helps then wait until she is stable and see how much I can reduce it by.

She's already lived longer than anyone ever hoped She's my little miracle, and a very snuggly miracle at that.

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Sounds like a good idea to me.
It just occurred to me that if you've got water near you, you'll probably have willow trees. If she's one of these buns who know/learn what helps their illness willow leaves & bark have a mild pain killer in them. Come spring it might help you to gauge any increase in metacam by how many willow leaves she eats.
If she doesn't eat them fresh, crispy dry gives very little pressure on the teeth it's melt in the mouth!

ALL your buns are little miracles Sky_O, I reckon they don't want to leave heaven on earth with you.

thumps_ said:

Sounds like a good idea to me.
It just occurred to me that if you've got water near you, you'll probably have willow trees. If she's one of these buns who know/learn what helps their illness willow leaves & bark have a mild pain killer in them. Come spring it might help you to gauge any increase in metacam by how many willow leaves she eats.
If she doesn't eat them fresh, crispy dry gives very little pressure on the teeth it's melt in the mouth!

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Oooooh. That's brill thanks. I can't think of anyone who has one, but will see if I can hunt one down.

Hey Sky-O!

Oh Judy sure is a genius!
I gave my girls the option of willow branches with leaves on when they had to have staples...they chomped them ...so think it helped abit.

Feel free to PM when they willow trees start blooming...I can send you some for sure!:wave:

Now may be wrong...but doesnt bramble leaves help the gut get moving?:?

and I think Echinacia is good for the general immune system - you could perhaps add that as an extra little help...

Thank you so much, that would be amazing

Im not sure about using echinacea because she has absrption issues and I'm just not sure if it could cause her any harm. Does anyone know of anywhere online I could get bramble leaves?

Sky-O said:

Thank you so much, that would be amazing

Im not sure about using echinacea because she has absrption issues and I'm just not sure if it could cause her any harm. Does anyone know of anywhere online I could get bramble leaves?

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Hey hun! Will PM you!:wave:

You got it Chelle :thumb:
Brambles & Raspberry leaves are good for gut slow down caused by dysbiosis, but any bunny safe tree leaves help gut slow down in general. There seems to be something different about woody fiber for buns. Trouble is the time of year. They're all deciduous so it's bare branches until spring.

Shhhh there's a sheltered copse behind me which had loads of brambles all year last year. It's a bit breezy & very wet here today. I'll climb a tree, or one of those steel gates, but don't walk through ancient woodland when it's windy!!:lol: I'll scout round tomorrow!

thumps_ said:

You got it Chelle :thumb:
Brambles & Raspberry leaves are good for gut slow down caused by dysbiosis, but any bunny safe tree leaves help gut slow down in general. There seems to be something different about woody fiber for buns. Trouble is the time of year. They're all deciduous so it's bare branches until spring.

Shhhh there's a sheltered copse behind me which had loads of brambles all year last year. It's a bit breezy & very wet here today. I'll climb a tree, or one of those steel gates, but don't walk through ancient woodland when it's windy!!:lol: I'll scout round tomorrow!

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Might this explain why Wish has been demolishing the apple tree twigs like no tomorrow? Literally so, so many?

Sky-O said:

Might this explain why Wish has been demolishing the apple tree twigs like no tomorrow? Literally so, so many?

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Very much so. I can now tell more about Thumper's gut much earlier by what he eats than anything else. It only works for natural foods though not human veg.
ETA I'd be wondering whether Wish is trying her hardest to counteract gut slow down.

thumps_ said:

Very much so. I can now tell more about Thumper's gut much earlier by what he eats than anything else. It only works for natural foods though not human veg.
ETA I'd be wondering whether Wish is trying her hardest to counteract gut slow down.

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Thanks. Interesting thoughts. At least I have many apple sticks I can provide to her I've given her her increased dose and she has been bounding about like a bean, so maybe that is the issue. Shame though. Huge shame.

I love the description of bounding about like a bean!
I take the bounding about part for granted now, cos it's become part of our life routine. Exercise or lack of it, has a very big effect on Thumper's gut.

Mind with spring fever it's a job to get him running rather than "vibrating". :lol:

Hope your bunny is feeling better asap xxx

thumps_ said:

You got it Chelle :thumb:
Brambles & Raspberry leaves are good for gut slow down caused by dysbiosis, but any bunny safe tree leaves help gut slow down in general. There seems to be something different about woody fiber for buns. Trouble is the time of year. They're all deciduous so it's bare branches until spring.

Shhhh there's a sheltered copse behind me which had loads of brambles all year last year. It's a bit breezy & very wet here today. I'll climb a tree, or one of those steel gates, but don't walk through ancient woodland when it's windy!!:lol: I'll scout round tomorrow!

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yeah!:lol: Something sunk in!:lol: Thanks to you!
I can just see you jumping about in the brambles ....rain or shine!:lol:
I will go have a little walk about too...see what i can find!

Sky-O said:

Thanks. Interesting thoughts. At least I have many apple sticks I can provide to her I've given her her increased dose and she has been bounding about like a bean, so maybe that is the issue. Shame though. Huge shame.

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Just checking..now obviously the sticks are great for her teeth...but for her gut I think its the leaves...


Thumps!
Do you know anything about echinacea and if it can effect a bunny with absorption issues?
Not quite sure what it means...but Sky-O mentioned that would be a worry...:?

Also....did you mention that Thyme was good for the teeth?
Another possibility it may help...teeth & gut?:?

Judy - what would we do without you!

chelle said:

yeah!:lol: Something sunk in!:lol: Thanks to you!
I can just see you jumping about in the brambles ....rain or shine!:lol:
I will go have a little walk about too...see what i can find!




Just checking..now obviously the sticks are great for her teeth...but for her gut I think its the leaves...


Thumps!
Do you know anything about echinacea and if it can effect a bunny with absorption issues?
Not quite sure what it means...but Sky-O mentioned that would be a worry...:?

Also....did you mention that Thyme was good for the teeth?
Another possibility it may help...teeth & gut?:?

Judy - what would we do without you!

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Chelle I didn't intend to cast any aspersions on you. Rather you'll soon be as good as, if not better than me; & TBH I rather like that cos then I can learn the easy way!:lol:
My bun used to eat the bark off the sticks, just down to hardwood like the wildies do in winter when the leaves ran out.

Thyme is bunny safe as a regular treat & also a mild antiseptic. I was thinking of the elderly bun with loosening teeth & trying to prevent abscess formation.
According to a chapter in my book on BUNNIES by a pharmacist the main use of thyme is to get rid of intestinal parasites. :shock:

I'm sorry I don't know about echinacea in enough detail.

The thing about the added fiber though, is that if absorption is compromised bunny has to eat more nutrients to get enough into her body. She might not be able to get enough throughput for everything.

Pain causes the release of cortisol from the adrenals as does fear. Natural Cortisol is a powerful gut slower downer & has a few other effects, including increased susceptability to infection.

That's why I was looking for the real root of the problem. If I'm right & improved pain control is helpful, we'll have a much happier bunny, a very good chance that gut function will improve, & can avoid several other problems as well, maybe even improve the immune system.

Thanks guys. Very much so.

I did Wish her increased Metacam last night and this morning and she's very lively. I also can't see any excess cecatropes, but I haven't yet had a good look for them, just a quick scan. She is still inhaling the bark from the apple twigs though. She also came out straight away when I opened their door, when the past few days she has been hiding in the corner.

Its going to be very difficult to try and get to the 'root' of the problem. We know she has nasty teeth and has been on Metacam since 16 weeks old (she is now just shy of 10 months). Effectively, her jaw seems too small to hold all the teeth in her mouth, they are all out of line and higgledy piggledy, her tooth roots are a mess yet she currently has no spurs, so we are a bit stuck as to what we can do to help her, other than medicate.

Equally, she is pretty 'wrong' inside and so she could be having pain from something inside, but we can't do much to investigate that because she is high risk for, well, anything.

So it might be that all we can do is dose her up.

As well as Wish being bouncier and coming right out, Autumn is also bouncier. We've been struggling with him and Wish and one speculation was that he was picking up on her feeling ill and that scared him (he doesn't understand much about bunnies) and it may also be what caused his dermatitis, but he is pounding up and down the landing like I haven't heard him do for a good while.

Oh poor Wish & her teeth etc.

I'm delighted that Wish & Autumn are feeling so much better.
The response makes me think that pain has been a strong factor in Wish being poorly. I'd be inclined to see how she goes over the next couple of days.

A real craving for wood fiber/leaves in massive quantities is said to be associated with sluggish caecal movement. Shall we see whether the pain relief sorts that out before making more changes? Metacam isn't so good for severe gut pain, it's mainly good for bone/tooth pain & pain from tissue swelling.

Are there any best guesses about what the absorption problems might be? I'm thinking that if the caeum is sluggish & prone to bacterial overgrowth, we may be able to improve things a bit.

I'm delighted that Autumn is feeling better too.
The 1st. time I tried to have a nap in the afternoon, Thumper kept charging upstairs every 20 mins like a herd of buffalow to check I was OK.:lol:
Likewise he always knows when I've a blocked sinus & spends ages grooming over it. He's got 6 to choose from & always gets it right! :shock:
There's a lot more to bunnies than we are remotely aware of!