What is the best feeding strategy for a bunny who can't eat hay?

I'm seeking advice for Shadow. He's a good weight and likes his grub but I've not seen him eat hay and FHB explained to me how it probably hurts the nerves of his teeth when he eats anything hard - so he just doesn't bother. His teeth are uneven and he has a few missing (he's only a year old but probably fed on rubbish as a youngster). His incisors are good but not perfect.

Any advice on feeding him would be appreciated. I'm particularly concerned about getting enough fibre into him and the impact this could have on guts/stasis issues. He eats both Excel and Science Selective really well but Fenugreek Crunchies are too hard for him.

He'll be seeing FHB again for his VHD jab soon but any pointers I can get in the meantime for a high fibre diet would be appreciated.

Thank you :wave:

What about grass, can he manage that ?

Obviously it would need to be introduced very gradually.

The SS Mature Recipe has a higher fibre content than the ordinary recipe

http://www.supremepetfoods.com/products/science/

Have you tried him on the stalkier hays ? Sometimes Dental Rabbits can actually manage to eat this even when the cannot eat other hays.

Then there is the Protexin Pro Fibre

http://www.protexin.com/products/pro-fibre/31

Jack's-Jane said:

What about grass, can he manage that ?

Obviously it would need to be introduced very gradually.

The SS Mature Recipe has a higher fibre content than the ordinary recipe

http://www.supremepetfoods.com/products/science/

Have you tried him on the stalkier hays ? Sometimes Dental Rabbits can actually manage to eat this even when the cannot eat other hays.

Then there is the Protexin Pro Fibre

http://www.protexin.com/products/pro-fibre/31

Click to expand...

Thank you.

I will have a look at the links. I've not tried grass, I would have trouble finding more than a few blades at the moment but could grow some oat grass for him (I think).

I've tried him on green oat hay (if that counts as stalkier?) and his brother, Binky, ate his but I'm pretty sure that Shadow hasn't eaten any of it:?

My Indy refused to eat hay, although there was nothing wrong with his teeth. (Well, there was, but that was because of not eating hay..)

Indy had always been a healthy bunny, until he developped molar spurs (due to not eating hay) he was almost six years old at that point. For me that was the moment to realize how much damage his current diet could do to him, so I switched to a limited amount of Science Selective and tried every kind of hay, every brand, EVERYTHING to get him to eat hay. Nothing worked.

After a while, he stopped eating. Statis. Took me a week to pull him through. Wasn't the last time unfortunately. (And not the only problem either.) Although never as severe as the first time, he had many "off days" that could have ended up as stasis if I hadn't learned to recognize the earliest symptoms and treated him before it got really bad.

Even though the quality of the food I used to give him was awful, he never had any problems before I changed his diet. After a while I realized this must have been because I used to freefeed him. Of course the mix I used to feed him is no where near a substitude for hay, but he could eat it all day and night, so it did have the same function as hay: His tummy was always filled.

Freefeeding is not an option when you have a bun with calciumrelated problems, he was on a strict diet. But from that point I started giving him many small portions instead of just two/three bigger portions (veggies, pellets and dried herbs) a day. I think it helped, but he passed away not too long after that so I'm not really sure..

Hi thanks so much for all that info Dollie.



Having looked at the options and availability (and cost :shock of some of the more exotic pellets, they aren't an easy option. I'll see if Jollies stock the SS mature, otherwise we will have to stick with SS standard/Excel.

When I told FHB I was giving him more pellets to make up for no hay she said not to, to make up his intake with veg instead as pellets would make him fat, so that's my way forward.... especially grass, if he's still here with me when we have grass. I'll have to get growing the oat grass seeds .... that seems like the most viable option.

My bun hadn't eaten hay voluntarily for 51/2 years until 3 days ago. he has molar spurs from malocclusion & such a sluggish caecum he couldn't get anything from hay.

A good, easy, low pressure chew, source of fiber, is safe tree leaves dried to be crispy, & dried greater/ribwort plantain (common weeds) also dried but you won't find them until spring.
Although it's a very long thread various plants & drying techniques can be found in thread http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=239131

On the Google map I notice trees beside a river just downstream from the sewage works. They could be Willow. He may like Willow leaves because they've mild pain relieving properties. Hawthorn (field hedges) is another favourite, as are apple, & pear. Bramble leaves are still very much around down here, & are excellent.

The allotments may prove to be a good source of plantains, dandelions, & sowthistles.

Pots of fresh herbs are low pressure chew, & low in nutrients which are bad for buns.
If your bun will eat them I'd suggest a little thyme too to help to keep his gums healthy.

You could also try the Protexin pro-fibre pellets (Vet UK stock them) and mix these in with the usual pellets or go half/half - they are very high in fibre and this might help compensate for the lack of hay.

I agree with Thumps though and that there are other natural sources of long strand fibre which are almost as good as hay/grass - wild astringent weeds/leaves are a very suitable alternative and very palatable to most rabbits dried or fresh. :wave:

ETA that will teach me to read the other posts first! I see Jane has already mentioned the Pro-fibre pellets

Thank you so much Thumps and Prettylupin for all the advice.

I must admit I keep forgetting about foraging Though I'm not very good with the idea of which land I can go and and which I shouldn't. I do have some plantain seeds so I'll get round to planting them, and will try to grow anything else useful. I've got an extra bag of dried plantain with my Hay Experts order to give him. Shadow is 'only here whilst in foster care', so *in theory* my plans shouldn't be long-term. I do feel a real need to give him the absolute best diet I can for him and get him established on it. I've meant to get an apple tree for a while, I think that is a job for this spring

I shall have another look at the Protexin pro-fibre pellets, no harm in getting a bag, just to see...

Thanks again so much. He eats everything else really enthusiastically, bless him, if I didn't 'know' rabbits I'd not see that there was a problem for him.

My Benji won't eat hay either

Apparently there's nothing wrong with his teeth, he just won't touch it! It's getting me down, so I'll be following this thread religiously:lol:

Have you tried readi-grass?
Pipkin hardly eats any hay but he quite likes his readi-grass! I think it has quite a lot of calcium in it though so probably not good to feed too much.

Bunny Buddy said:

Thank you so much Thumps and Prettylupin for all the advice.

I must admit I keep forgetting about foraging Though I'm not very good with the idea of which land I can go and and which I shouldn't. I do have some plantain seeds so I'll get round to planting them, and will try to grow anything else useful. I've got an extra bag of dried plantain with my Hay Experts order to give him. Shadow is 'only here whilst in foster care', so *in theory* my plans shouldn't be long-term. I do feel a real need to give him the absolute best diet I can for him and get him established on it. I've meant to get an apple tree for a while, I think that is a job for this spring

I shall have another look at the Protexin pro-fibre pellets, no harm in getting a bag, just to see...

Thanks again so much. He eats everything else really enthusiastically, bless him, if I didn't 'know' rabbits I'd not see that there was a problem for him.

Click to expand...

If you get a 1:50 ordnance survey map they show the public rights of way.

With the allotments, usually only allotment holders have right of entry. I introduced myself to some of the allotment holders -lovely people- & asked individual permission to gather weeds from their plots, but only when plot holders were present. I used an open basket so everyone could see that I wasn't stealing their veg. I got lots of smiles & waves & enquiries about how Thumper was.
The weeds we want spread like wildfire. It was one of the few arrangements in life where both parties benefitted equally. :lol:

I always use secetures - (clippers) on country hedges & only take the overgrown parts. So I'm pruning the hege for council/farmer! I've just been open about what I'm doing - "I've got a poorly rabbit, he has drugs too but this is helps to keep him going". Everyone I've met has been lovely.

Thank you so much everybody for your advice.

Just a quick update on Shadow's eating.

I have seen him eat the odd very fine strand of hay but no evidence that he eats much. His brother, Binky, eats enough hay for the pair of them :shock: Shadow's poops are quite big despite this but a lot darker than Binky's.

Breakthrough moment today though:

I gave them a handful of Oxbow orchard grass and I expected 5 minutes later to see Binky working his way though it - it was actually Shadow sat there enthusiastically picking up stands and muching ... then another one I've found a hay he's happy to eat I got quite emotional

Bunny Buddy said:

Thank you so much everybody for your advice.

Just a quick update on Shadow's eating.

I have seen him eat the odd very fine strand of hay but no evidence that he eats much. His brother, Binky, eats enough hay for the pair of them :shock: Shadow's poops are quite big despite this but a lot darker than Binky's.

Breakthrough moment today though:

I gave them a handful of Oxbow orchard grass and I expected 5 minutes later to see Binky working his way though it - it was actually Shadow sat there enthusiastically picking up stands and muching ... then another one I've found a hay he's happy to eat I got quite emotional

Click to expand...

Yay

Thats really great.

What about the packs of dried plantain, dandielion etc? Also the excel nature sticks for a healthy treat, they have a paper wrapper round it, but i always take them off for my Herbie as he has no front teeth, the stuff inside is very fine, almost powdery, so would be easy to eat.

Another thing is the hay cakes, i have to break them up into bits for my Herbie, they also break up into small bits, so they could be good.

I have a few rabbits who can't eat hay, and they don't suffer from any ill effects as long as you feed them a good quality pellet (soaked if their teeth are v. bad).

chloemurray said:

Yay

Click to expand...

Yay indeed

Kermit said:

Thats really great.

What about the packs of dried plantain, dandielion etc? Also the excel nature sticks for a healthy treat, they have a paper wrapper round it, but i always take them off for my Herbie as he has no front teeth, the stuff inside is very fine, almost powdery, so would be easy to eat.

Another thing is the hay cakes, i have to break them up into bits for my Herbie, they also break up into small bits, so they could be good.

Click to expand...

I give him plantain as a treat but it would be too expensive as a regular food, same with the other hay products they'd just have to be a treat I'd need something bulky for him to eat. You've given me ideas about the small bits of hay left at the bottom of the bag though - I'm going to save them and see if he can benefit from them. Thank you

abbymarysmokey said:

I have a few rabbits who can't eat hay, and they don't suffer from any ill effects as long as you feed them a good quality pellet (soaked if their teeth are v. bad).

Click to expand...

That's good to know, thank you. He eats both SS and Excel well at the moment so I'm optimistic.

When I was fostering dental buns I used to make the a veggie smoothie which contained hay, but because it was mushed up with everything else they used to eat it. It means they don't have to chew all that much, but they are getting as many nutrients and as much fibre in as possible. Shadow may not need this now you have found a hay he likes, but it may be a tip worth knowing about for the future.

Grimlock has never eaten hay for the same reason. The only problem he has is excess cecals, but I feed him excel food and lots of it to keep his weight on. I've started with pro fibre pellets but I've only seen a small decrease in them. He's about 5 years old and my vets are constantly surprised how healthy he is. Just try your best with new hays and foraging.