Please help!!

Hi!

This is quiet a long story so I’ll try and keep it short. I had a mini lop buck, Errol, for 8 months he has free range of the downstairs. Got him a mate, 8 week old doe, Ella. They bonded really quickly. Unfortunately, when I go her spayed she died. I was devastated but he seemed not to change that much just a little withdrawn. I didn't realise until it was too late that he needed to see the body. I then got advice from breeder and rescue centre who both said new mate asap. I did this however, here I made my first mistake he got on best with one doe but she was allergic to sawdust and I fell in love with another, Tuppence, we intoed them and they were ok. She is 14 months and not neutered so humped him a bit but he didn't seem to mind. All ok in car they lay top to tail.

Got them home, put her in Errol and Ella's old cage-cleaned out as he had been put back in the single cage after Ella's death. I realise now that this was mistake number 2 and I also put this cage in the living room, his main hangout. He got in and out of her cage a bit and licked her head but she soon tried to hump him and a fight started. I separated them and left her in the cage and him free range but there were still occasional squabbles through the cage bars. We have taken them on dates to the bathroom and although there have only been a few fights they just don't seem to like each other. I have now swapped their cages and put her in the hall, he visits a bit and will lick her head but otherwise he seems only to want to be around me and she wont even come out of her cage!

I will of course get her spayed but I am a little nervous given the last outcome and want to be sure that this will help them be friends, given the cost! I just want what is best for both of them I know I’ve made a lot of mistakes but as it was so easy before I had hoped it would go well again.

Please if anyone has any advice on bonding a rabbit when the other has lost a mate, we would all be very grateful!!

Many thanks

Amy, Errol, and Tuppence

You need to have her spayed i'm afraid, her hormones are likely to be getting in the way. Neutral territory is the other important factor, but for now I think you need to concentrate on her health. As scary as it is, spaying is essential for does, the risk of uterine cancer when she reaches age 4 is huge if you don't.
This should be a relatively straightforward and safe operation in the hands of a vet who does it regularly and knows what they are doing.
Is your vet rabbit-savy?

Just seen you are in Bristol. Langford vets is a top rabbit only clinic with exotic specialists. I would consider using them for your next spay operation. Things do sometimes go wrong sadly with ops, buns may have a heart defect etc. that even with the best pre-op exam can be missed. I'm sure your new girlie will be just fine

ETA once she's spayed and healed (several weeks) then you can consider attempting to rebond but you must use completely neutral territory, and if you feel stuck then perhaps ask an experienced rabbit rescue to do the bonding for you.

To try and make this easy to ready I will answer what I can separately.

From your post you have Errol an 8 month old neutered male who has been bereaved, he was free range in he downstairs of where you live. You now have Tuppence, unneutered female who is 14 months.

Questions:
How long have you had Tuppence?

Have you now put the 2 bunnies in the same room as he was free range in?

What size space do they currently have access to and what does this consiste of?

Did you thoroughly clean the area where you have put the buns? If so how did you go about this? What is the flooring?

Did you clean out the cage with something very smelly before you put them into it?

When you take them for dates in the bathroom, is this an area where Errol has had previous access to? Has this area been throughly cleaned before you place them in it? If you cleaned it what did you do?

Have you any experience of bonding rabbits before?

Sorry for the questions but this may help us to help you.

1. Had Tuppence about 2 weeks
2.Yes both in the same room but different cages and now she is in a different room.
3. He has the whole living room which is old dinning and lounge knocked through and outside and garage when weather good, also hall and kitchen but hardly ever goes in there. She had a large 5ft hutch in living room but currently hall and kitchen but she hasn't come out of her cage.
4. Cleaned their old cage with anti bac, fairy liquid and bicarb of soda. Nothing else could really be cleaned.
5. Cleaned her cage as above not his old one though as Ella never went in. Living room is carpet.
6. Errol has never been in the bathroom or anywhere upstairs in the house. Only usual bathroom cleaning and hovering upstairs etc.
7. Only experience was with Ella (dec.) expected the worst so had new cage and new toys but they bonded so quickly none was necessary. Not done that this time as couldn't get all new stuff again and thought it would go well again, Errol is so good natured.

Happy to answer any questions, thanks for your interest. xx

Thanks for your help and info on Langford Vets will definitely look them up. I am glad to know that there is hope!

The biggest issue I think initially was possibly that the territory may have smelled of you Errol. Carpets are really difficult to clear smells from, anything smelling of a bun can easily make them kick off.

I would suggest getting yours neutered and then leave it about 4 weeks before giving it a go, if you dont feel confident see if someone near you can help

What size space were you trying to bond them in?

although there have only been a few fights they just don't seem to like each other

Click to expand...

Can you explain this ?

When they are in the bathroom they will go as far away from each other as possible and just ignore each other. Errol will sit with his back to her and she will hide behind something. I tried putting them in the bath and the same again both at opposite ends with his back to her and her kind of hunched up.

Do you think i should keep her upstairs in our spare room, Errol has never been up there so hopefully she will get some confidence up and then 2 weeks after spaying try again with the bathroom dates? I am worried about her being alone though. She came from a breeder and apart from mating I think she was in her cage alone, I am trying to teach her that she has more freedom now and can trust us but that will be difficult when she is separated from the main part of the house.

All bondings are different and ignoring each other and keeping as far away as possible is very normal for many buns until they gain confidence to approach each other. If they are ignoring each other it is best to leave them alone in a confined space (I use 4 x 2 foot) and just let them slowly gain their own confidence. Sometimes this can take a few days but is just part of the bonding process. It does not mean that they will not get on in the long run.

After all in human relationships, some sit an eye up the talent before going over and trying to get to know someone

Does swapping litter pans work?

I've read that swapping litter pans helps the bond? Should I be doing that while they are separate and she is recovering from the op? Is it ok to have her in the hall in the interim also or should I put her somewhere he hasn’t been?

Sorry for asking so many questions just want to be sure to get it right this time! Thank you again for all your help.

There is no reasearch been done on wether swapping areas or contents of cages works either way.

Personally for a number of reasons I use the direct get on with it route as I believe that this is less stressful to buns than the slow method. We all have different ways for different reasons.

I would try and think ahead if you are planning to bond in the future to try and keep an area of your place rabbit free so that you can use this for bonding and also after they are bonded as the areas you need to let them out in after they are bonded will need to be neural or neutralised. It really doesnt matter where they are if they are beign kept apart ...

Thanks a lot.

Will update post op.

Hi Amywoo,

I recently lost rabbit that was bonded to Patch who is a neutered male hutch rabbit. i have a house rabbit called Tribbles. I got a lot of advise from this forum about bonding as I had never done it before. I would keep Patch in a cage in Tribbles' territory (be careful if you do this as rabbits can bite through the cage) so they got used to each other's smell. I would also bring them both into the living room (neutral territory) for a few hours. They would fight initially and chase but i was told to squirt water on their faces- this causes grooming behaviour which is accepting behaviour to the other rabbit. When they were sitting closer to one another, grooming themselves and no longer chasing, I put them in a cage 6 ft by 4ft in the middle of my living room and slept in my living room for two nights until i was sure there was no fighting. You may need to take 2-3 days off work to supervise. During this time, you need to clean every surface of the room/ cage that the rabbits will live in. I was told to keep the rabbits together for minimum three days preferably a week in a cage. If they are fighting, you will need to seprate and try again. When the rabbits are sleeping next to each other and grooming you have successfully bonded them. When i moved mine back to the kitchen, i took the rug that they had both been sleeping on to the kitchen so they were used to the smell. They are successfully bonded now. don't give up- my bond was difficult as they were both dominant rabbits and i used the softly approach as Tribbles was very aggressive to the newly bereaved Patch. I wanted to give up loads of times but out of sheer despration to give Patch a new friend, i tried to be patient. Good luck