Bonding help please!

Hi,

This is my first time bonding two adult bunnies and I could really do with some useful pointers. I have Fudge, a four year old male rex cross netherland dwarf. He has lived with Millie (english cross) since they were babies. Sadly I lost Millie at New Year and thought that Fudge might be lonely so decided to adopt Smokey (female pure Rex) from my local RSPCA. She is about two years old. Both are spayed / neutered.

I have done everything I can think of to introduce these two successfully, but am not sure how to interpret what's going on so far! I started by allowing them to live next to each other in their separate cages, this was for approx two weeks (as poor Smokey had pneumonia from the dreadful conditions she was previously kept in by a breeder, she's fine now ) I then switched cages for two or three nights. (Fudge had previously been trying to bite me when I put my hand in his cage as he could smell Smokey, he was a bit stroppy at first, stomping feet etc but it seemed to solve the biting me issue.) I then began introducing them in the living room with one in the run, and one outside of it, they tried to bite each other a few times through the wire, but seemed to settle down after a while. After a few days of this they started sitting next to each other which I took as a good sign so tried an introduction in the spare room (neutral ground) this seemed to go ok, a little interest in each other, but mostly exploring, after 15 mins though, they seemed to have had enough of this and fur started flying... I separated them and all encounters after this seem to have gone similarly starting off well but ending in me separating them. I even tried the car journey, this worked perfectly...whilst they were in the car, snuggled together, but afterwards, indoors...back to trying to bite each other! I have tried the water spray approach, which does work, but then they never get near each other as they're always being sprayed to stop the biting!!

From what I can gather I think it's a dominance issue, Fudge has never been one for mounting behaviour, even with his previous companion Millie, she always mounted him, but he still seemed in charge, when he had enough, he let her know and she ran away. I think Smokey also tries to be the dominant one though, biting back or nipping him to begin with.

I guess my ultimate question is, is there hope for these two?! They seem pretty relaxed around each other, flopping out on the carpet, hopping around near each other, to a point where they try to bite again! How do I get past this..? & what should I allow in the way of biting / fighting etc. It's been about two weeks now, it's exhausting though!!

:roll: same problem here.... i am trying to bond two seperate pairs.... and similar is happening... be interested to see peoples advice :wave:

how long are they fighting for?

fur flying mounting nipping of feet etc normal


have you had any blood,?


is the bonding space completly neutral ?

constant moving seperating handling is a no no

you need to bond them in one place where you can keep and eye on them, and have at least 48 hours of free time to do, some bond work straight away others can take a good week or so,

Thank you for replying to me, i'm kind of at wit's end a bit now.

So we've moved on a bit, I rang my local RSPCA for advice as have been trying for about two weeks now to introduce, I wasn't letting any fighting break out at all before, was using the water bottle and separating, Fudge can be quite aggressive so don't want any injuries. They advised me to allow a little nipping / fur flying as they need to establish a dominant bunny, but last night I tried this and within 10 seconds Fudge had pulled a chunk of fur out of her face, tearing a layer of skin off. This has obviously frightened the life out of me, not too bad an injury in the end, but I really don't want to put Smokey in any danger of further injury.

I have tried a few different neutral areas, but as Fudge has been with me for 4 years, it's quite difficult to find anywhere he hasn't been! I think i'm going to stick with the spare room for introductions now, as Fudge has never been allowed in here previously.

But where do I go from here? Do I keep trying? Do I go back to a stage where they are in the run next to each other but not free?

I'm really scared of letting them hurt each other and getting upset as i don't have the space for them to live separately and really don't want to give Smokey back, I've got very attached to her now, she's a lovely cuddley bunny, but just seems to want to nip at Fudge and he then goes all out evil bun!! Please help!! x

You need to use a much smaller space than a spare room, an indoor cage would be a good idea for the first 2-3 days.

ok, so saying I use a smaller space, where do I start now, considering that Fudge has hurt her last night?

I would keep them in separate rooms, away from each other for a few days, then try again.

sorry to hear your bun got injured My bonding has took a turn for the worse today with gizmo and alex... gizmo has a bitten ear and the other ear has a small tare Ended up at the vets today because i was worried about the bleeding but luckly he didn't need stiches and just has to have a course of baytril just to be on the safe side:roll: The vet said to me to go back a stage [mesh dividing them but they can still see and sniff each other] She told me to do this till the weekend and then try again... but i too am terrified :shock:

Just noticed we both seem to be watching each other! Fingers crossed we'll help each other somehow!!

I too think i'm more scared than the buns, don't want anymore injuries, or vet's bills for that matter!!

yoshi&gizmo said:

sorry to hear your bun got injured My bonding has took a turn for the worse today with gizmo and alex... gizmo has a bitten ear and the other ear has a small tare Ended up at the vets today because i was worried about the bleeding but luckly he didn't need stiches and just has to have a course of baytril just to be on the safe side:roll: The vet said to me to go back a stage [mesh dividing them but they can still see and sniff each other] She told me to do this till the weekend and then try again... but i too am terrified :shock:

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You would be better off keeping them away for each other for a few days ymto forget the aggression, then divide with the mesh (but be careful with this!), then try rebonding.

Update on progress (or lack of it!)

So I'm still having a nightmare with these two, to the point where I am considering having to give Smokey back to the RSPCA, I really don't want to as I love her to pieces now, but I don't have the time or space to look after both of them if they won't live together, Fudge has always been allowed in the house in the evenings to do what he wants, if they can't come in together then I don't think it's fair that Fudge would have his time cut because of the new bun, I only got her so he wouldn't be lonely!!

I called RSPCA for advice today, I have kept them away from each other for a few days and tried again in the bath tub this time, Fudge bit her again drawing blood I really don't want her to get hurt anymore, she's so lovely it's not fair. The problem is she nips at him, but doesn't hurt him, then he goes really aggressive and bites her back.

The only thing I have found that works with these two is the car trick, they sat together as they were petrified, the RSPCA suggest doing this everyday until they get along, but I'm really not too sure about causing them this stress every day, and if they won't get along anywhere else, how do I progress from the car to anywhere else?! Any ideas?

I'm getting so stressed out with this now, I really don't want Smokey getting hurt, but I feel so guilty at the thought of having to return her to the RSPCA, she's never had a loving home before and I think she's bonded well with me, even though her and Fudge seem to hate each other!

:roll: sorry to here you still ain't having much luckk with these two still. I am in the same perdicament with gizmo and alex. So I thought i would try something a bit different. Obviously when i just had yoshi and gizmo they hated each other so lived seperatly but hutches facing each other. They learnt to tollerate each other and when gizmo had his teeth out and was depressed yoshi laid outside gizmos hutch [his hutch was in side for 3wks] occasionally sniffing him with out aggression. Very sweet.... so this is what i plan for gizmo and alex now..they are going to be neighbours [see each other, smell each other but not get at each other] as this seemed to allow yoshi & gizmo to tollerate each other i am hoping it might help with these two :? I am lucky in a way i guess that i don't work [due to health problems] so have a lot of free time. But i must admit it is hard work seeing to them all still. I really hope things turn around for both of us as i hate the thought of alex going back too. But remember if they do the RSPCA will find her another good home. Thats what i keep telling myself. Good Luck thinking of you :wave:

If it's any consolation mine are doing EXACTLY the same. And like you I really think it's not worth the stress anymore. But I have grown to really love the new boy we got

The bit I don't get is that my girl rabbit (who I've also had about 4 years) seems to try to do the submissive thing. Head down, ears forward. Even putting her head under his. But I'm not sure he even gets what that means! Doesn't lick her or anything.

Only thing he does is try to nip her bum or side which she hates!

Despite doing the submissive thing tho, she seems to then just get annoyed or bored or something and go to attack him!

She is still terrified every night we try to put them together and I just don't know it's fair anymore...

Good luck with your bonding! I can understand your stress!!!

I'd keep them separate for longer-keep them in separate rooms so they cant see or smell each other for a good week [I'd probably do 2 weeks as I always err on the side of caution ].Decide on where you're going to bond [SMALL area] then thoroughly clean and neutralise it with white vinegar.Start again from scratch as a completely new bond.I'd keep them in the bonding area until your happy [then add a day or so for luck] then GRADUALLY increase the space you give them.You need to be able to supervise at first so start when you have a few days off work so that you can sit with them [make sure you have plenty to read etc as time can drag if all is going well].OR you could find a rescue that will bond for you for a donation

Daisylop said:

I'd keep them separate for longer-keep them in separate rooms so they cant see or smell each other for a good week [I'd probably do 2 weeks as I always err on the side of caution ].Decide on where you're going to bond [SMALL area] then thoroughly clean and neutralise it with white vinegar.Start again from scratch as a completely new bond.I'd keep them in the bonding area until your happy [then add a day or so for luck] then GRADUALLY increase the space you give them.You need to be able to supervise at first so start when you have a few days off work so that you can sit with them [make sure you have plenty to read etc as time can drag if all is going well].OR you could find a rescue that will bond for you for a donation

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:wave: Right heres the thing i can put the bunnies so they can't see each other but not so they can't smell each other. They live in their hutches/ runs in our summer house/ shed with windows :lol: Anyway, i have had an offer from my vet who is also an experienced bunny mummy, that she would take them and bond them for me but i am worried about this in case they come back injured or start fighting when back home.
Also just a quick question. Alex [rescue female bun] is very nervous we have noticed and although she does sit and chatter when you hold her she shows the whites of her eyes alot like she is afraid of us or something in our house [she comes in to play] I am guessing i should get her more relaxed before we try bonding her with gizmo again?
Charlotte sorry for jumping on your thread again but i think we are in the same situation :roll:... if you get any useful tips or info please pm me and i will do the same for you

yoshi&gizmo said:

:wave: Right heres the thing i can put the bunnies so they can't see each other but not so they can't smell each other. They live in their hutches/ runs in our summer house/ shed with windows :lol: Anyway, i have had an offer from my vet who is also an experienced bunny mummy, that she would take them and bond them for me but i am worried about this in case they come back injured or start fighting when back home.

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Unfortunately even smelling new bunnies was enough to set my bunnies off when I had new arrivals [although they seem to be getting used to this now :roll:] If your vet is experienced with bunnies and has bonded before then what better? at least if they get injured then they have vet assistance "on tap" as it were.When they come home keep them in a small neutral area for a few days as a change in surroundings can sometimes set them off as well ,as a bunny may feel the need to show dominance in the new area.

Daisylop said:

If your vet is experienced with bunnies and has bonded before then what better? at least if they get injured then they have vet assistance "on tap" as it were..

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I didn't think of that :lol: this is true and yes she is experienced she bonded her own and is involved with RWF etc so she is quite clued up on bunnies I hope they don't get injured but like you said if they do they are with the best person.

Oh and as for the smelling each other. The bunny who is already resident [gizmo] is no problem it is The one who has come into the new enviornment that is the problem [alex] she is savage to gizmo but as each day passes she is becoming less and less nervous of me and my OH so going to continue to let her settle before we stress her out with more bonding attempts. I do wonder what happened to her before we got her for her to be this nervous. :?

How you all getting on??? My person I had set up to take the new boy has fallen thru so back to stage one and wondering if I should give it another go....

It's so sad cos he totally lies right next to her cage when he's out and she's just not having any of it! hehe!

Hello

We had a similar problem and in the end we sent our two off to our boarding / rescue friend and she bonded them straight away with no problems!!! :roll::roll::roll:

I would see if your vet can help you .. and hopefully they will come back as buddies!!

Well Fudge and Smokey still hate each other! I have seperated them completely at the minute, but i think the problem is that
a) I'm now terrified of them injuring each other, every time I have put them together it has just resulted in complete agression and each one has now been injured, and
b) I work full time so i really don't have enough time to devote to this difficult bond, especially as i don't really know if it will ever work!

I really think i'm going to have to give Smokey up as I don't think i'm being fair on either of them at the moment, Fudge is becoming increasingly annoyed at her presence and I feel that i can't give either of them sufficient attention any more as they can't be near each other! I only adopted Smokey so that Fudge wouldn't be lonely and if he hates her, that's kind of defeating the object isn't it?! Plus, i think it's unfair that Smokey would have to live alone just because Fudge is a grumpy old man!!

I have called the RSPCA for some last attempt advice on if they know anyone in my area that could bond them for me, or if there is any point continuing given the levels of agression - any advice on this (i am in mid-kent) would be greatly appreciated!! :? I just want to have tried every option before i make the decision to give Smokey up, as I have grown to love her, and she gives me little snuggles then licks all round my neck!

How are Alex and Gizmo getting on - any progress?? Any tips you can share?!