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Head tilt/EC advice please

Wuezybun

Wuezybun

Warren Scout
My foster rabbit Lola has head tilt as shown in the photos below

IMG_2558.jpg


IMG_2556.jpg


We went to the vets and tests showed that she does have EC so all 4 of my rabbits are on a 28 course of panacur (the vet did says that the non affected rabbits only needed 9 days, but I've decided to do 28 to be on the safe side much to the rabbits' disgust!).

The angle Lola holds her head at hasn't improved but it also hasn't got any worse. Looking at a lot of the info on here her head tilt does seem to be a fairly mild case as she doesn't fall or roll over and she can pull her head straight for cleaning her ears.

My question is, should I be discussing any other treatments with the vets. I did discuss metacam but the vet said that Lola doesn't appear to be in any pain, which I agree with as she's still very active and eating really well. Is there anything else you guys can suggest which could help her?

Thanks
 
Wuezybun said:
My foster rabbit Lola has head tilt as shown in the photos below

IMG_2558.jpg


IMG_2556.jpg


We went to the vets and tests showed that she does have EC so all 4 of my rabbits are on a 28 course of panacur (the vet did says that the non affected rabbits only needed 9 days, but I've decided to do 28 to be on the safe side much to the rabbits' disgust!).

The angle Lola holds her head at hasn't improved but it also hasn't got any worse. Looking at a lot of the info on here her head tilt does seem to be a fairly mild case as she doesn't fall or roll over and she can pull her head straight for cleaning her ears.

My question is, should I be discussing any other treatments with the vets. I did discuss metacam but the vet said that Lola doesn't appear to be in any pain, which I agree with as she's still very active and eating really well. Is there anything else you guys can suggest which could help her?

Thanks
Click to expand...

She should be on Metacam, not for the analgesic effects but for the anti-inflammatory effects. It is inflammation within the tissue cells that causes damage leading to clinical symptoms. Anti-inflammatory medication is essential to try to minimise the inflammatory response and thus minimise longterm damage.

My Vet usually gives a covering abx aswell as Metacam and Panacur as secondary bacterial infection can be an issue in an immune compromised Rabbit.

I hope Lola recovers well.
 
Thanks for that. It gives me info that I can use in my discussions with the vet.

I think the vet told me that metacam can have a bad effect on the kidneys which may already be compromised by the EC. Do you have any views on that?
 
My Vet is of the opinion that the benefits of giving Metacam out-weigh any potential risks.

This is a post from another 'EC thread' on here. It is by Marie Kubiak, a forum member and an Exotics Specialist Vet :

The clinical signs are due to both direct damage - where the parasite deprives the cell it lives in of essential nutrients by removing them for its own use, and indirect where the foreign proteins of the parasite stimulate the immune system to attack and destroy the infected cell, particularly when the spore causes the host cell to break open and release all the new spores and damaged cell contents. If the immune system mounts a very aggressive attack (dependent on infected cell levels, foreign protein reactivity, immune system function, concurrent disease, white blood cell type proportions and many other factors) then the protective response becomes damaging as surrounding normal cells are damaged by the reactive molecules released in response to an infected/damaged cell. These molecules cause further cell damage, further inflammation and delay healing so can actually prolong and exacerbate the disease process.
This is why metacam and other anti-inflammatories are really important in stopping progression. They don't treat the parasite but control the body's response to it. Steroids would act in a similar way but have a more widespread suppressive effect on the immune system and with an infectious disease it is better to try and keep the majority of immune function intact to stop the infectious organism being allowed to multiply unchecked.
Does that make sense (and was that even an answer to the question asked?), it's the kind of simplified explanation but there are still a massive amount of unknowns in the e.cuniculi disease process (am trying to get several research projects off the ground at the moment so hopefully more answers will be provided over the next few years).
__________________
Marie Kubiak
European College of Zoological Medicine Resident Veterinarian

Great Western Exotic Vets
Great Western Referrals
Swindon
01793 603 800
 
I finally managed to speak to my the vet today. We had quite a long discussion about Metacam. She says there is not enough research to say for sure whether Metacam can pass to the brain to help reduce the swelling there that is causing Lola's head tilt. There is just anecdotal evidence that it may help some rabbits, but maybe that's the Panacur. I guess this agrees with what Marie says at the end about a massive amount of unknowns...

Anwyay, she has given me some Metacam to try but I'm still a bit confused about whether to give it to her. I'm trying to read through some of the other threads on here but they often end up confusing me too as each case is so different and sadly some are much more complicated than Lola's.

Does anybody have experience of Metacam causing kidney problems or other positive experience of using it for head tilt which will help me make my mind up?

Thanks!
 
Hi
When I took on an abandoned Giant with EC my vets gave her abx, panacur and metacam.
Jess did not make it though as she was very very sick and had been left untreated and then abandoned.
I would try everything, but that is my own personal choice.
 
When my boy kermit developed head tilt he was not on metacam, however if it had to happen now, with me knowing this forum, i would try it.

I hope your bunny gets better, alot of buns totally recover from head tilt, and some live fine with it.
My boy had it for over a year, his head was much more severely tilted than your bun.

Vibes for a straight head :)
 
Thanks for your replies and I'm really sorry to hear about your rabbits. When I read the thread about Kermit passing away I cried loads as he was obviously such a dearly loved rabbit.

Anyway, we decided to try the metacam and gave her the first dose tonight. She wasn't very impressed but fingers crossed it helps!

I've read loads of stories about EC on here now and it's such a horrible illness. Lola isn't suffering too badly but I still feel so helpless to do anything about it.
 
Im glad that Kermits threads help a bit. Its still hard with him not here, but i really appreciate that i had him and his wee squinty head for the time i did.

He was such a character!

I hope Lola responds well to the metacam, ill be thinking of her. Ive now always got a soft spot for head tilt bunsters. xx
 
Just an update to say that we've been giving Lola Metacam for 4 days now along with the panacur and I'm fairly convinced that the angle she holds her head at has reduced a little bit. It's obviously difficult to say whether that's due to the panacur or the metacam but at least it's positive news.

I've got the day 21 deep clean to do tomorrow which I'm not looking forward to but at least that means only another week of panacur for the non-affected buns. I haven't yet decided whether to keep Lola on it for 6 weeks as there are divided opinions on here.

One other thing, Lola is now out of date with her VHD vaccine. The vet said we shouldn't give this to her while she's being treated for EC, but I was wondering if anybody has any advice about how long after she finishes her panacur we should give this?
 
Glad she's improving. When Wesley had headtilt/suspected EC I did do the six weeks panacur just to be sure on him and my other bun but there are quite a lot of different opinions on this. I didn't do the VHD jab until the May and Wesley had headtilt at the end of January. It did take him quite a while to recover fully. Sending lots of vibes for the beautiful Lola.
 
We've have a head tilt bunny called Wilson & he started to be poorly on 2nd April this year. We tried baytril, metacam, then steroid injections, stemitil (which is a human anti sickness drug), penecillin, panacur for 6 weeks - then finally switched him on to a drup called Zithromax. The last drug isn't licenced for use in animals as it's a human abx, however bunny mad lisa on here gave me the link for a website called On The Wonk. Her bunny & another had been successfully treated, so we decided to give it a go. For us it's really helped Wilson - he still has a bad tilt on his head, but he's happy living with his partner Alice & although he still has a few rolling episodes - it's nothing like it was when he was really poorly.

There's a thread below about Wilson's illness, which has loads of advice on it from other forum members & what we did - hope this helps.

Hope your little bunster is doing ok xxx

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=178735&highlight=Wilson
 
I would definitely give Lola the metacam. The effects on kidneys are only if she is on it very very long term and really the benefits outweigh this. My bun had E.c, he was stuck on his side for a week, and was left with a very pronounced tilt, we continued to treat him with metacam for a few months and his tilt almost went away (he is now only slightly tilted when he first wakes up, and a little wobbly sometimes, but has a perfectly normal life). That was coming up to 2 years ago, and he's still going strong (he's now 10).
 
Thanks for your advice. We've been giving her the metacam for nearly a week now and although I can't make my mind up whether she's improved she certainly hasn't got any worse as shown in these photos taken after the 21 day big clean. She can stand on her hind legs no problem!

IMG_2560.jpg

'What you looking at?'

IMG_2561.jpg

'Hey Henry, there are raspberry leaves here!'

IMG_2566.jpg

'Back off Hoomin! Neither me nor me Lola wants any more of that horrid white paste!'
 
Wuezybun said:
Just an update to say that we've been giving Lola Metacam for 4 days now along with the panacur and I'm fairly convinced that the angle she holds her head at has reduced a little bit. It's obviously difficult to say whether that's due to the panacur or the metacam but at least it's positive news.

I've got the day 21 deep clean to do tomorrow which I'm not looking forward to but at least that means only another week of panacur for the non-affected buns. I haven't yet decided whether to keep Lola on it for 6 weeks as there are divided opinions on here.

One other thing, Lola is now out of date with her VHD vaccine. The vet said we shouldn't give this to her while she's being treated for EC, but I was wondering if anybody has any advice about how long after she finishes her panacur we should give this?
Click to expand...

I would lay off the VHD vaccine until she is 100% well. Or until there is a confirmed outbreak near you. I have seen too many rabbits with health problems go downhill after it.

If the metacam doesn't do the trick see if your vet will try steroids. I have used them very sucessfully with no ill effects to the rabbits. Just a small dose, even just 1mg of prednicare could help considerably. Also even with confirmed EC infection an ear infection could still be present so I would recomend antibiotics, they do also have some effect on the parasite.
 
Thats great news that your bun is getting on good.
Ill keep my fingers crossed for continued improvement x
 
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