Using Glucosamine for arthritis in a rabbit. Update: Relapse:(

[prettylupin]

Thank you Atifa for your interesting post. :wave:

Nino is actually doing very well on the glucosamine alongside his NSAID at the moment. There has definitely been a further improvement since we started the glucosamine as well and again no relapses. The glucosamine seems to be additionally helping in particular his morning stiffness, after he has been sat in the hutch all night. In the past, and even on the meloxidyl, he would sometimes stumble up the stairs in the morning, particularly on a wet day if a run in the garden to loosen and warm his joints was not possible. He no longer stumbles even if he has not been in the garden first and flies up the two flights of stairs to the sitting room.

We sometimes carry him downstairs in the evening just to reduce the impact as he still insists on leaping from the third step down on to a hard floor, although we have counteracted this temporarily with a foam mat under the hall rug. We will soon be carpeting this area and using a thick underlay for better impact absorbtion.

But overall he is doing very well indeed and we have stuck with the banana method for administering the glucosamine. The capsules are huge with a large amount of powder but mushed into half or quarter a thin slice of banana it disappears and he has also learnt to lick the little saucer clean. My buns get very little in the way of carbs in their diet so the half sliver of banana once a day is not a problem and is the easiest way to adminster the meds for Nino. Poppy gets the other half of the ring so she doesn't feel left out! :roll:

 

[thumps_]

I'm delighted to hear of the further improvement.
I have heard that not only does glucosamine improve the lubricative qualities of synovial fluid but may retard further joint destruction. I'm so hopeful that this will be the case for Nino.

"Keep it up little fella, you're doing great".

 

[Atifa]

:wave:Hello again,
Just checked and the 2kg tub Cetyl M® Joint Action Formula is now £50 BUT it is best before Jan 10

That might be fine for horses or the Bunny Mothers Union (ie people that can share and use it up quickly)

I wonder if it will be as efficacious, and how long it will be good once it's opened.

If I knew someone with an arthritic horse, I would ask them if they would try it and sell me a small amount.

I could still buy a 4.5kg tub for £178 :lol: . . . . that's not going to happen.

I hope that they don't discontinue the smaller size.
I will tell them they should consider that rabbits are the third most popular pet in the UK; so they will be needing to stock a smaller size.

 

[Atifa]

Thank you PrettyLupin.

I hope my bunny doesn't have arthritis.

I am looking into it because my vet said there is no reason why she (bunny) shouldn't clean her own bottom. She (vet) never mentioned arthritis, but I am going to ask about it next time.

I found this : "Similarly, a rabbit who is suffering from degenerative joint problems in the spine, hips, or other areas, may not be able to reach cecotropes easily. He ends up sitting on some of them, and squashing them into his fur. . . Common remedies include various NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-inflammatory Drugs), and glucosamine supplements such as Cetyl-M or myristol." http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

She has always enjoyed a massage, and I now pay particular attention to areas where I think she could be a little stiff. She seems to be doing better on the bottom cleaning, so that could be the answer.

Since Nino is doing so well (very pleased to hear that) I will read through again to see exactly what you are doing, and will try the same.

Even if she doesn't yet have arthritis, I think prevention is better than cure - I have already looked into this for the dog, the cat and my father. (My sceptical father is now pain-free and very active thanks to collagen)

Mmm - I am looking at the Joint Aid For Cats. Ingredients are vegetarian, but Chondroitin : 2% and Glucosamine : 2% - doesn't sound particularly effective.
5% Oatinol might be a useful addition.

Many thanks for all the useful info, and best wishes to Nino.

 

[prettylupin]

The glucosamine I am using for Nino Atifa is Synoquin Cat - the source is marine/shellfish (for the protein component) and whilst I agree a vegetarian source for a vegetarian animal like a rabbit would be better, I have heard that some people have found the vegetarian versions to be less effective. I have also been advised by an exotic vet that the protein content is so minimal (from the marine source) not to be of issue to bunny's caecum.

Not being able to reach the bottom to clean properly can certainly be a symptom of arthritis but not one that Nino has as it is only his hip and knee joints that are affected, generally his spine looks in pretty good nick on Xray. Difficulty bending the lower spine may be more likely attributable to spondylosis for example and calcification of the lower veterbrae? Does your bun have other mobility issues?

We believe Nino's problems are largely congenital or due to early trauma, and therefore rare for his age group as he is barely 4 yrs old.

 

[helgalush]

I havent been keeping up with this thread, as I dont really know very much about it, but I do hope that the Glucosamine helps Nino. x

 

[Atifa]

"The glucosamine I am using for Nino Atifa is Synoquin Cat"

Many thanks again Prettylupin.

I put a dose of Joint Aid for Cats (Gro-Well Feeds Ltd) in a tiny bowl, and she ate most of it up.
I put the rest of it on the banana slice I had ready . . . and it's the first time she has ever refused banana - but she ate it a little later.
This morning I gave another dose, and she ate it all up - with nothing naughty added. (I am always telling people she is so good)

However, it is 43% Cooked Cereals :roll: so that's why she likes it.
http://www.amazinganimal.co.uk/joint-aid-for-cats-250g-p-21239.html

I've been reading about spondylosis - and we don't want that!
<For those who don't know : "This is a fairly common disease of rabbits over 4 years of age, particularly females of medium to large breeds." http://www.hrschicago.org/rabbit3fr.html >

I admit she was obese (I couldn't see it at the time) but we sorted that out as soon the vet said about it.
But I think that is where our problem began - and it left her with a very large dewlap which must get in the way.

She does still run, hop and take long stretches - though I haven't seen her moonwalk so much lately. Luckily she is never confined, so that must help.

Like you say, it is early days, and not a lot is known about treating rabbits with glucosamine. I am determined that it will make a difference.

Many thanks for your good advice.

 

[thumps_]

Atifa, pretty lupin knows that I'm a strong advocate of a trial of glucosamine, because of the effect on my own knee caps, back, & tendons. I was reduced to "bottom hopping "up & down stairs at 1 point. After 6 weeks of human glucosamine+chondroitin, everything worked smoothly & painlessly. I forgot to take it recently for about 3 weeks got a slight twinge in my knees after a long hill walk. I'm back to being fully oiled again.

I like it because it's NOT a pain killer, it improves joint & tendon lubrication, thus preventing bone grating on bone = painful, stiff, & more damage.

 

[prettylupin]

Disaster averted.... we think! :?

Well my worst fear came true the day before yesterday - Nino had an episode whilst we are coping with a newborn baby
To begin with we couldn't work out why, but then remembered that he had snuck upstairs for the first time in a few months (they've become kitchen/diner/utility room bunnies since we redid the house and no longer come upstairs) and we heard a funny noise, thought it was something through the post box - realised after he had slipped and fallen on the stairs - it's been months since he used that set of muscles to go up them! He must have hurt his hips a lot
He started tummy pressing, was cold and refusing food
Baby was screaming and due a feed so one of us sorted bubba and the other Nino. Gave him a whacking dose of meloxidyl, all his other gut meds just incase and sat him on a heat pad on our laps. We got him eating/nibbling again with a few hours and although a bit quiet the next day he seems back to normal now.... phew!
The bunnies will be staying downstairs from now on.... decision made. Stairs plus arthritis have become too risky now.

 

[Amy104]

Glad Nino is ok.

 

[prettylupin]

Glad Nino is ok.

Thanks Amy, me too! I hardly spend any time with the bunnies these days so felt very guilty x

 

[fluffiebunnie]

Glad Nino is ok x

 

[Gemmapookie]

Oh goodness, you and your boys really are having a rough time atm (((HUGS)))
Glad Nino is feeling better now, phew! X

 

[thumps_]

Thank goodness all settled down. What a shock for everyone!
I'm so relieved that you're all OK again.

 

[lilbun]

Sorry to hear Nino about Nino's relapse but glad you were able to get him through it- I hope you can find a way to keep him from doing it again xx

 

[Debster]

That must have been very stressful - glad Nino has recovered ok though xx

 

[prettylupin]

Sorry to hear Nino about Nino's relapse but glad you were able to get him through it- I hope you can find a way to keep him from doing it again xx

Yes.... keep kitchen door shut!

Nino has also lost some weight so is now having some Oxbow pellets (not Poppy), but his bloods last week were all good, normal kidney/liver parameters

Thank you all xx

 

[willowflower27]

Recent research says glucosamine is rarely effective in treating/preventing arthritis when its already started omega 3 is proven to work better but as it'd a new thing not sure about its safe use in rabbits

 

[helgalush]

Sorry to hear that Vicky but hope he is recovering well now. xx

 

[marmitesmum]

I'm glad he's ok.

Some people give their bunnies Flaxseed, that has good Omega 3 levels.

I asked the vets specifically for Synoquin because of reading this thread when looking for info. My vets only sell Seraquin so suggested I try that. However it not only has glucosamine but condroitin and turmeric in also. I've cut down on the metacam and he seems to continue to be ok. We're still on the loading dose so fingers crossed.