Trio - should I keep trying?

[Doodledee]

I'm trying to bond 3 neutered boys. Two were previously bonded and I am adding a third whose female partner died a year ago.

we have been attempting to bond stu previously but all failed due to his reactiveness. However the rescue did mention he was often also overeager, so my fears he is lonely rather than a comfortable single were confirmed.

I have been trying to bond him into my existing pair of males and while they are not attacking each other, they have been staying on opposite sides of the cage. Stu is ok-ish with the elder boy, licking him but getting frustrated when he doesn't lick back and nipping. However, he Is picking on the younger boy when he gets near him and pulling out his fur. While this is not 'attacking' violently, the poor little boy was covered in bald spots this morning and I felt so awful for him I have intervened and seperated them a few mins ago, to give everyone a break. The bonded boys seem to still be ok as a pair (the elder one is such a caring soul).

Stu is very hand shy and has always been, despite my attempts to counter this and goes into 'trance' like state for a while when handled. he is not good orientated at all, so behaviour correcting using treats is difficult.

they have a huge outdoor space that is currently split into three, but I would love them to have the whole thing to explore. Stu and the younger bun are roughly similar ages but in A few years the elder is likely to get to 'that age' where we will loose him.

For these reasons, along with Stu's loneliness and the lack of fighting (other than fur pulling) when introduced, I wanted to try the trio.

Should I continue and if yes, how Should I proceed without causing more trauma to the younger boy (who is being targeted for fur pulling)?

(background - the bonded pair B & Sf have also previously been in a trio, having accepted a little female who passed away. During the initial stages of this bond the younger boy was the one chasing the female while the elder acted as the mother, putting himself between them and chilling everyone out.)

 

[Omi]

Where have you been attempting to bond the three? Are you putting them together for long or short periods? And how long have you been trying to bond them?

 

[Doodledee]

They were initially housed next to each other but exhibited territorial aggression. I changed the setup so the bonded pair was above Stu. This was 6 months ago. Stu has met other suitors in the meantime.

This was a last resort test before going much further afield to find a partner (if even possible) for Stu. Luckily, there was no fighting So Ive persisted.

they are all Outdoor buns from a heated shed with attached aviary.

I tried bonding outside previously but this led to attacks. This time I brought them inside and turned off heating/opened windows to prevent shock when returning outside.

The bond started in a dog crate in a room upstairs that had successfully bonded another previously hostile pair. They haven't been in this room before.

I changed the location to the utility after some fur pulling (to a larger indoor cage) and spent the night next to them monitoring for fighting.
None have been in this room either.
After they seemed to have calmed I left them overnight on night 2 and came down in the morning to poor Smurf (younger) looking like a pineapple from all the fur pulling. I separated briefly (and wrote this post) before considering that they are used to more space and could use hides holes.

I took away the top of the cage and increase the space to the floor, blocking with puppy panels. Then camped out next to them yesterday.

They bonded pair basically stayed away from Stu and there was a little chasing but this calmed down when I turned on the washing machine.

I had put a soft blanket under part of the counter and Bob (elder) had nestled in there. When the washing machine was on, Stu got stressed and sort Bob out to sit next to him for comfort.

I saw this as a positive sign and encouraged Smurf to join them. I stroked all three to ease them (although not sure if this was a good thing as they aren't strokey bunnies, however I figured it would get Stu used to movement around his head).

During this time both Smurf and Bob groomed Stu's head and each other.

Gradually Stu woke out of his stressed state and moved out of the small cosy area, but once either Smurf or Bob went to join him he would test them and they'd run away. He then became more emboldened and started going for Smurf again. Bob put himself between Stu and Smurf but there was no fighting.

Bob would occasionally come out of the cosy area to investigate before running back when Stu moved (he roamed around). Smurf became terrified and wouldn't move from cosy. I became worried that he wasn't able to access food or water, so reduced the area to the cosy section and the bottom of the cage (filled with hay) Moving the water closer to Smurf.

Stu persisted in trying to pull fur from Smurf whenever close, although I had intervened to prevent this with a broom to separate them and I was worried about Smurf being on lockdown. I decided to give them a break and Smurf to recover while I checked him over.

While the grooming was encouraging I really feel awful for putting smurf through this looking at the state of his poor coat and skin. I have attached some pics of three of the many bald spots from fur ripping/nipping.

There have been positive signs but with poor Smurf in this state, I'm not sure whether to progress, try again after he has healed or abandon.

They are currently side by side in the utility (cage and crate) and I will swap them over between them.

 

[Omi]

Firstly, you are probably aware but three neutered males would not be considered the easiest of bonds. That's just trying to put what you are experiencing into perspective. Bonding a trio is also usually more complex than just a pair and this is usually because one of the three will get left out or picked on as you are experiencing. My bunnies also live outside and I can appreciate that bonding attempts outside are also not as simple as ones inside.

I think I would struggle to decide what to do if I were in this situation. But I think you have various options.

I think currently the three of them are trying to sort out a heirarchy, but that isn't progressing amicably. That could be because they need longer, so giving them longer together might result in them resolving things. It might not though and you have the additional problem that Smurf is being hurt by presumably Stu, which I would not be comfortable with, especially as Smurf is one of the original pair. So I think if you were to continue to try with the three of them, you would need to monitor them very closely the whole time. It could also be that continuing might destroy the existing bond between Bob and Smurf, leaving you with three single bunnies.

I would not be confident that leaving them side by side for a while and then trying again might produce a different result. In my view they would still have unresolved issues and would just start again from where they left off.

Another option and this is I think sadly what I would go for, is to have Bob and Smurf as a pair, if they are still happy to be together. I would try to find another bunny, preferably a female, to bond with Stu. He was previously bonded and so has shown that he can live with another bunny. Discuss the situation with any possible rescue centre(s) and explain the bonding difficulties. It might be that the rescue could start off the bonding process for you to judge whether the bunnies were compatible.

I hope that whatever you decide to do, that it works out well for you all. We all know from experience that this is a stressful situation.

 

[Doodledee]

Thank you, you have been echoing my thoughts. Bob and Smurf still seem as bonded as ever but risking that bond and smurfs health may not be worth the bonus' of having the trio. Stu has proven difficult to bond already trying various other bonds including at a rescue (He was also bonded to his last partner as a baby at a rescue) The nearest rescue that offers a bonding service is a while away now, due to closures, but I think this will end up being the right option.

 

[Omi]

Perhaps consider the characters of the bunnies in the bonds, which have previously been unsuccessful with Stu and see if they were similar. It's sometimes fear that causes a bunny to nip other bunnies during bonding.

I have had success with bonding a mature male with a pre-pubertal female. They bonded very easily and there were no issues when she had her spay a few weeks afterwards. I doubt whether my male felt any threat from her. I'm just thinking that maybe you should try to find a very placid natured female for Stu. I do think it's worth considering the character of any potential bunnies for Stu.