Spaying Chika and Cinnamon!

[Cinnabun14]

Okay, we're doing it! We're rebuilding their hutch and run and, while that's getting done, Cinnamon and Chika will get spayed. They'll be inside resting and recovering while their new home is being built. I haven't gotten an exact date yet, but it should be done by the end of the month. I'm so excited and scared and nervous at the same time. I've never taken an animal to get spayed before (all our others were already fixed), so I'm super nervous. I've got a few questions I only trust the rabbit people to help me out with!

1) How long will the rabbits need to stay inside before they can go back out into their new house? They'll be staying in an unused bathroom in the basement, so they won't be bothered at all while they're resting.

2) I'm going to separate them while they're recovering, but is it okay if the pens are side by side? or do they need to be farther apart?

3) Is three days of pain meds enough for them, or should I ask the doctor for more? They also said the spay covers a plastic e-collar, is this something I can actually use, or is it a bad idea for bunnies?

4) What's a good go-to food for bunnies that won't eat after surgery? Also, what's a good way to get them to take a pill? Last animal I had to give a pill to was an ornery tom who needed to be put in a burrito, but I've never rolled up a bunny before.

Sorry for all the questions. I'm really nervous that the vets will find something wrong with one of them, or that the surgery won't go well. It probably will, but I'm still super nervous

bonus picture of Chika learning "stand"

 

[Shimmer]

It's been a while since I had a rabbit spayed, so I can't answer everything, but:

- rabbit meds are usually liquid to be given orally by syringe at home (eg Metacam). Just draw up the amount and put the syringe in the side of the mouth to administer it. It ought to be a very quick procedure and they tend to like Metacam. You can practice before the op by using a 1ml syringe with water or unsweetened apple juice in, so they are used to being handled and 'medicated'.

- your vet will advise on any pain meds needed. In the UK, they are prescription only. There's usually a post-op check up a few days afterwards, so you can always ask about more meds then. Or just ask for a small bottle for them both in the first place.

- I've never used a medical collar on a rabbit and would much prefer not to. It makes it very difficult for them to eat, groom, remove caecals, etc. It would probably cause additional stress as they can't express natural behaviours. I've not had an issue with girls damaging their incision sites after a spay. Keep an eye on it at least twice a day. Skin heals over quite quickly (a couple of days or so), although full healing takes longer. If the wound has stitches, they may be irritating. Just keep an eye on it and get advice if the wound looks infected (red, hot, oozing, inflamed) or is opening up.

- some people use a babygrow type suit made for small animals, which covers the wound site. I've never found the need for one, but it's an option. External stitches may catch on the fabric and cause more irritation, you can't see what's happening with the wound as easily, and a rabbit wouldn't have an issue with chewing through the fabric.

- If the girls are being done on the same day and are already bonded, I would initially look at keeping them together for warmth and mutual support. Separating them may cause more stress, along with the change of environment. You do need to make sure that they are both eating, weeing and pooing, though. Play it by ear and separate them if you need to, but I would keep them as close as possible.

- Feeding after the op - quite often they need syringe feeds for the first 24hrs. You can use the commercial powders (eg Critical Care), or use the pellets they are used to (mushed up in hot water). It's also useful to save the powder from the bottom of the bags for occasions like this. I find that a bit of apple or carrot puree helps the food flow better through a syringe. You will need a larger syringe. I tend to use 10ml or 20ml. Bigger ones need fewer if any refills at each feed, which means you can fill it first and then get your patient to make the process a bit easier (and less messy). Initially, aim for feeds about every 3 hours. They should have been fed right up to the op, and before they are allowed to go home. Reduce the feeds as they start eating for themselves. Keep an eye on the poo output to determine how much they are actually eating.

- Tempting food to get them interested in eating again includes anything which has a stronger smell, eg dandelion leaves, celery leaves, fresh herbs.

- As a spay is a major operation, the girls need to have their activities restricted to allow them to heal internally. So no jumping, etc, (for maybe a week? - others can advise). Good luck with that.

- Animals are unable to regulate their body temperature immediately after a general anaesthetic, so for the first 24 hrs you need to make sure that they remain comfortable but are also able to remove themselves from eg a heat source (such as a heat pad).

 

[Omi]

It's been a while since I had a rabbit spayed, so I can't answer everything, but:

- rabbit meds are usually liquid to be given orally by syringe at home (eg Metacam). Just draw up the amount and put the syringe in the side of the mouth to administer it. It ought to be a very quick procedure and they tend to like Metacam. You can practice before the op by using a 1ml syringe with water or unsweetened apple juice in, so they are used to being handled and 'medicated'.

- your vet will advise on any pain meds needed. In the UK, they are prescription only. There's usually a post-op check up a few days afterwards, so you can always ask about more meds then. Or just ask for a small bottle for them both in the first place.

- I've never used a medical collar on a rabbit and would much prefer not to. It makes it very difficult for them to eat, groom, remove caecals, etc. It would probably cause additional stress as they can't express natural behaviours. I've not had an issue with girls damaging their incision sites after a spay. Keep an eye on it at least twice a day. Skin heals over quite quickly (a couple of days or so), although full healing takes longer. If the wound has stitches, they may be irritating. Just keep an eye on it and get advice if the wound looks infected (red, hot, oozing, inflamed) or is opening up.

- some people use a babygrow type suit made for small animals, which covers the wound site. I've never found the need for one, but it's an option. External stitches may catch on the fabric and cause more irritation, you can't see what's happening with the wound as easily, and a rabbit wouldn't have an issue with chewing through the fabric.

- If the girls are being done on the same day and are already bonded, I would initially look at keeping them together for warmth and mutual support. Separating them may cause more stress, along with the change of environment. You do need to make sure that they are both eating, weeing and pooing, though. Play it by ear and separate them if you need to, but I would keep them as close as possible.

- Feeding after the op - quite often they need syringe feeds for the first 24hrs. You can use the commercial powders (eg Critical Care), or use the pellets they are used to (mushed up in hot water). It's also useful to save the powder from the bottom of the bags for occasions like this. I find that a bit of apple or carrot puree helps the food flow better through a syringe. You will need a larger syringe. I tend to use 10ml or 20ml. Bigger ones need fewer if any refills at each feed, which means you can fill it first and then get your patient to make the process a bit easier (and less messy). Initially, aim for feeds about every 3 hours. They should have been fed right up to the op, and before they are allowed to go home. Reduce the feeds as they start eating for themselves. Keep an eye on the poo output to determine how much they are actually eating.

- Tempting food to get them interested in eating again includes anything which has a stronger smell, eg dandelion leaves, celery leaves, fresh herbs.

- As a spay is a major operation, the girls need to have their activities restricted to allow them to heal internally. So no jumping, etc, (for maybe a week? - others can advise). Good luck with that.

- Animals are unable to regulate their body temperature immediately after a general anaesthetic, so for the first 24 hrs you need to make sure that they remain comfortable but are also able to remove themselves from eg a heat source (such as a heat pad).

Agree with all of this.

I would not want to use (and never have done) either a collar or a babygrow, as I think it would result in more problems than it would solve. But as with all of the advice, monitoring carefully each bunny's reaction will indicate what is necessary. You have the benefit of having two done at the same time, so you can compare each with the other.

Tui didn't need Metacam after 4 days. She had her check-up then and it was agreed she could return to full movement. She needs to jump up and down steps to go in and out of the shed and she was able to do that after 4 days. But you will be able to judge with your two.

I would definitely try to keep them together. It will be a comfort for them both. We didn't separate Tui from her bonded partner.

My main memory of the event is that Tui was sleepy, anorexic and unhappy for about the initial 24 hours, but after that she quickly returned to normal.

 

[SarahP]

I had a collar given to one of my bunnies but she went crazy trying to remove it, so it stayed on for about 2 minutes!

I totally agree with keeping them together. They will be happier, and you won't need to re-bond them afterwards. You may find that one bunny recovers quicker than the other, so food can be a challenge, but hopefully it will be similar. Also, they will encourage each other to eat if they see food disappearing into the other.

If you do have to give a pill rather than liquid, I normally crush them with a pill crusher, then mix with a little water and syringe in.

 

[bunny momma]

Like others, I never used a collar or a suit after a spay. I have used pain meds for five to seven days, depending on how well the bunny is eating and moving around.
Your vet should give pain meds before sending her home.
Sending lots of positive vibes.

 

[Cinnabun14]

Thank you guys so much! No wonder ya'll are my favorite people

I'll be sure to ask about getting additional pain meds if necessary after I call the vets (still have to do that!). In the meantime, I'm hunting down all the syringes in the house.

I was thinking about separating them because sometimes they tussle a bit. Nothing too bad, just some humping and chasing every now and then. I was worried they would fight after bringing them home. Can they be brought home in the same kennel then, or do they need separate ones? I normally keep them together.

No bunny collars!

How much food do they need when syringe feeding? Is it the same amount as dry, just made all wet or whenever they'll stop eating? I'm going to have to watch a couple of videos on this, I'm worried about food going down their windpipe.

I have a basil bush that I can use for coaxing them to eat!

 

[SarahP]

I think they will be too zonked out after their spay for each other to be anything other than a comfort. If it were me I'd keep them together (including in the carrier to bring them home) and then just keep a close eye on them.

With syringe feeding nowadays (with guinea pigs, but obviously the same applies), I grind up their usual pellet food as finely as possible in a nut and seed grinder, because at least I know it's a taste they like. If they aren't eating hay (or anything), you would need more of it than you would normally feed

 

[Omi]

I'd keep them in the same carrier on the home journey. Keeping things normal for them will provide reassurance too.

You might not need to syringe feed at all if they start eating by themselves. They will likely be too sleepy to think about any food when they first come home. I would leave them to rest and then try to tempt them with food, before considering syringe-feeding. I didn't need to give Tui any syringe-feeds as she started to nibble bits after a few hours.

 

[Cuthbert&Dillon]

Kanga and Pearl had their spay about 12 weeks ago.
No collar was given and they both came home with a weeks worth of drugs. I struggled to give meds but did manage to get some inside the bunnies.
I wish you loads of stress reducing vibes.

 

[SarahP]

It does depend on the kind of pain relief given at the vets as to how quickly they start eating again. Some pain relief makes them sleepier than others.

 

[Preitler]

About giving medicine - I put it on a pinch of oatmeal and give it as treat. Melocxicam doesn't taste bad and is well exepted that way.

 

[redmal]

I tried Meloxicam on a small slice of apple, with the peel on. I cut grooves across the slice and syringed the meds into the crosscuts. Prince was very happy to take his medicine!
When Charlie needed Meloxicam I had to syringe antibiotics into him too, so OH held him in a burrito and I syringed ABs first because he didn't like the taste, then the Meloxicam because he loved the stuff! Only problem was he held on to the syringe with his teeth because he wanted more!
Charlie is much more comfortable being handled than Prince, and Prince is better at eating (!) which is why I used different methods for each rabbit.

 

[Cinnabun14]

Thank you again, you guys are the best!

I just called the vet today. They're scheduled for July 6th and 7th. Drop off is on the 6th, they'll watch them overnight, then spay the next day if all is well. They said they send home two medicines, one is Meloxicam, the other I forgot the name of (some sort of shot???), but I can order more if they need it. Would it be a bad idea to practice syringe feeding them now? So they get used to the idea? I think I'll start doing the unsweetened apple juice in a syringe, just to get them comfortable with meds, but food might be different...

What size carrier should I get? I have a small-dog one now, but they've outgrown it to use together. It a top-loading one a good idea?

Also, can you guys give my younger sister some calming adivce? She's very worried about the spay. I haven't told her how invasive a spay is, or the risks, but she's worrying anyway. When I told her they would be watched overnight before spaying, she immediately became suspicious and said she didn't trust the vet. This was 13 seconds after I announced the news. I've tried to be nonchalant about it, but she can be a bad worrier sometimes, and I'd hate for her to get all panicky before it actually happens. Anything I can say to help her feel better? I'm worried giving her more information will only make her more nervous.

 

[Omi]

Is the vet experienced in rabbit spay operations? It's possibly different practices in different countries, but I have never heard of the need for rabbits to be watched overnight before a spay. What are they being watched for? In my view it would not be an accurate view of whether they are fit enough for the spay. They are unlikely to behave in a normal relaxed way in a strange location. A blood test would be more reliable. Personally I would want them relaxed and very well-fed in their home environment before the operation. This might be normal practice where you are though and I don't want to raise concerns unnecessarily. They might also be completely relaxed about it.

Top-loading carriers are better I think. I've got this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Catit-Cabr...86818&sprefix=cat+catio+carrie,aps,285&sr=8-6 It's large enough for two standard Rexes.

How old is your younger sister? I have always tried to be calm but honest with situations like this. She might be more relaxed if she has more information. She also needs to trust you to be honest with her.

 

[Shimmer]

I can understand why a vet might want to keep other species in the night before a general anaesthetic - it means they know that the animal has definitely been starved and is ready to go under GA first thing the next day. It's more usual to keep rabbits in for the night after they have been spayed, so they are definitely eating and pooing before they go home. Rabbits must not be starved - they need to keep their guts going, and they can't vomit (which is the reason for starving other species) - so I would query why they need them in the night before and not the night after the op, especially as it's more likely to unsettle them and stop them eating.

 

[SarahP]

Yes, unless they want them in super early and it's impossible to get them there, it's a far healthier thing to take rabbits in on the morning of the spay, so you can be sure that they have eaten well.

If you practice syringing them now, I'd just use some water. It will help both you and them get used to syringes.

With your sister, I think all you can both do is just get through it, to be honest. It's obviously going to be a worrying day for you. Make sure you find out what time you can call the vets for news. How far away from the vets are you? My vets is quite close by, so when I took Lily pig in for her spay recently, I packed some hay and pellets for her, but I also called in again during the afternoon with some fresh things (veggies and some weeds from the garden). That really helped with her recovery, as they were absolutely not going to let her go home until she had eaten for herself.

 

[Jaelyn]

Okay, we're doing it! We're rebuilding their hutch and run and, while that's getting done, Cinnamon and Chika will get spayed. They'll be inside resting and recovering while their new home is being built. I haven't gotten an exact date yet, but it should be done by the end of the month. I'm so excited and scared and nervous at the same time. I've never taken an animal to get spayed before (all our others were already fixed), so I'm super nervous. I've got a few questions I only trust the rabbit people to help me out with!

1) How long will the rabbits need to stay inside before they can go back out into their new house? They'll be staying in an unused bathroom in the basement, so they won't be bothered at all while they're resting.

2) I'm going to separate them while they're recovering, but is it okay if the pens are side by side? or do they need to be farther apart?

3) Is three days of pain meds enough for them, or should I ask the doctor for more? They also said the spay covers a plastic e-collar, is this something I can actually use, or is it a bad idea for bunnies?

4) What's a good go-to food for bunnies that won't eat after surgery? Also, what's a good way to get them to take a pill? Last animal I had to give a pill to was an ornery tom who needed to be put in a burrito, but I've never rolled up a bunny before.

Sorry for all the questions. I'm really nervous that the vets will find something wrong with one of them, or that the surgery won't go well. It probably will, but I'm still super nervous

bonus picture of Chika learning "stand"

yay! congrats! gooodluck

 

[bunny momma]

My vet does not have overnight hours, so I just dropped off the bunnies as soon as they opened in the morning. Vet would check their heart and listen to their gut before I left them, some hay, pellets and their favorite greens. Though they usually just ate the greens at the vets.
Some vets will give fluids before surgery. Also, my vet asks if the client wants cpr before all GA’s.
Sending vibes.

 

[Cinnabun14]

So the vet wants to keep them overnight to make sure they're still eating and pooing (big sigh of relief when I heard this, as I also thought she wanted to starve them before anesthetic!). It seems that while they won't be a regular vet for the girls (too small a practice, too many clients), they have a dedicated spay vet who only comes in to do spays and neuters on small exotics. I asked, and aparently they have a special "quiet corner" where they'll be left to board the night without noisy cats/dogs.

I've got the carrier, and I will be sending them off with a packed lunch (favorite greens, pellets, probably some parsley).

@Omi, my sister is 11, but a big worrier. When my mom gave me a bag of salad she knew we weren't going to finish, my sister freaked out because the salad had purple cabbage in it. She was conviced I was going to give the cabbage to the rabbits and they were going to die. No matter how much I talk to her, or how much I try to teach her what I've learned, she's still sure I'm just going to do whatever to the bunnies and kill them. (which I'm NOT!). I don't really know what to do other than just hope she forgets about it until the day comes...

 

[Cuthbert&Dillon]

I am glad your vet has an exotic vet coming in, that must be such a relief.