Scipio's new friend
- Thread starter Scrappy's Little Helper
- Start date
Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
Well, I managed to jinx myself with my latest post. 
I really, really wanted to keep going as I'd been seeing positive behaviours. Unfortunately they had another big spat (which would have turned into a full fight if I hadn't intervened). I think at this point, if I wanted to go for the full 24/7 method, I would need to be awake for at least 48 hours straight. With the best will in the world, I can't physically do that. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak...
In the end, I decided to call it a night. It's very disappointing as they were making progress, albeit slow. As well as the mirroring behaviour, sleeping within about a foot of each other and sharing herbs, we had some nips and lunges where they both backed off. I found the fact they didn't retaliate encouraging. It's just these occassional flare ups that were the issue. I'm wondering if my mistake was using the lounge again. Despite the fact it was neutralised, they might still have bad memories from it and that was triggering them.
So, back to the drawing board. Gah! Why can't bunnies just play nice?!?
Plan C is to build up to the 24/7 bonding. Dating is really not my preferred method but I want to try everything before giving up. I'm going to set up the pen in the kitchen (really kicking myself I didn't think of that before!) I'm going to start with hour long dates and build up. If we can get to six hours without the aggression, I'll go in for the 24/7 method. I'll book a Friday and Monday off work to make a long weekend of it. I'm going to steal J&B's idea of smooshing them together and putting lots of fresh herbs in to encourage them to eat together more. The idea is to get them to have positive associations with each other. I'll also swap their rooms around after each date. I've already been swapping their litter trays but I just want them to get as used to each other's scent as possible so they don't see each other as intruder buns. I'll also try wiping them with cloths.
In the spirit of throwing everything at this, we're all going to enjoy the sweaty sock loveliness of pet remedy for each date. I've had varied success with it in the past, so I'm not 100% convinced on it. But if it does help, then great. To be honest, at this point I'd happily mainline them both with crack if it got them bonded!
I'm sorry it's not a better update for everyone. I think this is going to turn into a slow and difficult bond, but I saw enough positive signs yesterday to believe that they can work things out and become friends. I just need get the bonding space right.
In the meantime, I'll start drawing up plan D....
Oh, before I forget, there was quite a funny incident last night. At one point, Solveig positioned her bum over one of the water bowls and did a big wee in it. I was very impressed by her accuracy!
I really, really wanted to keep going as I'd been seeing positive behaviours. Unfortunately they had another big spat (which would have turned into a full fight if I hadn't intervened). I think at this point, if I wanted to go for the full 24/7 method, I would need to be awake for at least 48 hours straight. With the best will in the world, I can't physically do that. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak...
In the end, I decided to call it a night. It's very disappointing as they were making progress, albeit slow. As well as the mirroring behaviour, sleeping within about a foot of each other and sharing herbs, we had some nips and lunges where they both backed off. I found the fact they didn't retaliate encouraging. It's just these occassional flare ups that were the issue. I'm wondering if my mistake was using the lounge again. Despite the fact it was neutralised, they might still have bad memories from it and that was triggering them.
So, back to the drawing board. Gah! Why can't bunnies just play nice?!?
Plan C is to build up to the 24/7 bonding. Dating is really not my preferred method but I want to try everything before giving up. I'm going to set up the pen in the kitchen (really kicking myself I didn't think of that before!) I'm going to start with hour long dates and build up. If we can get to six hours without the aggression, I'll go in for the 24/7 method. I'll book a Friday and Monday off work to make a long weekend of it. I'm going to steal J&B's idea of smooshing them together and putting lots of fresh herbs in to encourage them to eat together more. The idea is to get them to have positive associations with each other. I'll also swap their rooms around after each date. I've already been swapping their litter trays but I just want them to get as used to each other's scent as possible so they don't see each other as intruder buns. I'll also try wiping them with cloths.
In the spirit of throwing everything at this, we're all going to enjoy the sweaty sock loveliness of pet remedy for each date. I've had varied success with it in the past, so I'm not 100% convinced on it. But if it does help, then great. To be honest, at this point I'd happily mainline them both with crack if it got them bonded!
I'm sorry it's not a better update for everyone. I think this is going to turn into a slow and difficult bond, but I saw enough positive signs yesterday to believe that they can work things out and become friends. I just need get the bonding space right.
In the meantime, I'll start drawing up plan D....
Oh, before I forget, there was quite a funny incident last night. At one point, Solveig positioned her bum over one of the water bowls and did a big wee in it. I was very impressed by her accuracy!
Mervinius
Mama Doe
Oops that's sounds very similar to Pip and Bumble. Had lots of positive behaviours, but also would decide to savage one another out of no where and so I couldn't risk leaving them alone and I'm unable to stay awake for 48hrs.Well, I managed to jinx myself with my latest post.
I really, really wanted to keep going as I'd been seeing positive behaviours. Unfortunately they had another big spat (which would have turned into a full fight if I hadn't intervened). I think at this point, if I wanted to go for the full 24/7 method, I would need to be awake for at least 48 hours straight. With the best will in the world, I can't physically do that. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak...
In the end, I decided to call it a night. It's very disappointing as they were making progress, albeit slow. As well as the mirroring behaviour, sleeping within about a foot of each other and sharing herbs, we had some nips and lunges where they both backed off. I found the fact they didn't retaliate encouraging. It's just these occassional flare ups that were the issue. I'm wondering if my mistake was using the lounge again. Despite the fact it was neutralised, they might still have bad memories from it and that was triggering them.
So, back to the drawing board. Gah! Why can't bunnies just play nice?!?
Plan C is to build up to the 24/7 bonding. Dating is really not my preferred method but I want to try everything before giving up. I'm going to set up the pen in the kitchen (really kicking myself I didn't think of that before!) I'm going to start with hour long dates and build up. If we can get to six hours without the aggression, I'll go in for the 24/7 method. I'll book a Friday and Monday off work to make a long weekend of it. I'm going to steal J&B's idea of smooshing them together and putting lots of fresh herbs in to encourage them to eat together more. The idea is to get them to have positive associations with each other. I'll also swap their rooms around after each date. I've already been swapping their litter trays but I just want them to get as used to each other's scent as possible so they don't see each other as intruder buns. I'll also try wiping them with cloths.
In the spirit of throwing everything at this, we're all going to enjoy the sweaty sock loveliness of pet remedy for each date. I've had varied success with it in the past, so I'm not 100% convinced on it. But if it does help, then great. To be honest, at this point I'd happily mainline them both with crack if it got them bonded!
I'm sorry it's not a better update for everyone. I think this is going to turn into a slow and difficult bond, but I saw enough positive signs yesterday to believe that they can work things out and become friends. I just need get the bonding space right.
In the meantime, I'll start drawing up plan D....
Oh, before I forget, there was quite a funny incident last night. At one point, Solveig positioned her bum over one of the water bowls and did a big wee in it. I was very impressed by her accuracy!
I hope trying another space works, I'm sure it will.
Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
It's so frustrating isn't it! Every time you start to relax and get a bit of hope, they decide to kick off. Argh!
I really hope we can both get there in the end.
I really hope we can both get there in the end.
joey&boo
Wise Old Thumper
There seems to be a trend on here of awkward boy bunnies. Yeah I made it to the early hours a few times but gave up as I do think they need to be pretty far on to be left overnight in my house ...I am really good at waking up to bunny noises but terrible at getting up to them. You'll get there Scraps. They just want to put you through the mill a few times first.
You sound similar to me in searching for the perfect bonding set up. I really need to feel the space is right but I only feel that once I'm in
bunny momma
Wise Old Thumper
I am sorry your plan did not work as well as you hoped. Yet it seems that they will eventually be great friends.
Sending you all lots of bonding vibes.
Sending you all lots of bonding vibes.
Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
Hi everyone,
It's been a while since I posted about the terrible twosome, so I thought I'd give a quick update. In the end I decided against the dating method. My gut feeling was that it would be counterproductive: the main worry being that the constant putting them together and splitting them up would possibly aggravate the aggression and generally cause a lot of stress without actually progressing the bond.
So I decided to take a few days off work so I could really put the hours into this bond. We made a start on Wednesday afternoon. I put them in the kitchen and made the bonding space about 1m x 2m. Better start this time. They did have a fairly big scrap about 8 hours in, which I had to break up but they settled down again (and I've been spraying the pet remedy like my life depends on it!).
Generally, they've been ok. They have been eating pretty close together and sharing herbs and forage. There's a lot of mirrored grooming and they've been inching closer together when they have a sleep. A small break through last night as they spent about half an hour next to each other in a bum to bum V shape.
At the moment they're working out the hierarchy. They've had a lot of nose to nose stand offs and nobody is capitulating on the grooming yet. There's been a few times when I thought Scipio was going to give in but no dice! I really think that once they break this impasse they'll start to make good progress.
There's still a little bit of tension and I don't think the trust is 100% there yet. It feels like there are still potential flash points so I'm having to keep a close eye on them. They're pretty much together all the time, although I do separate them with a barrier for a few hours at night as I don't fully trust them yet and I need to grab a bit of sleep! So, not quite the 24/7 bonding yet but hopefully we can eventually build up to that point. Currently they have a good 16 to 18 hours together each day.
So, overall they're getting there, albeit very slowly! Definitely the toughest bond I've done so far.
It's been a while since I posted about the terrible twosome, so I thought I'd give a quick update. In the end I decided against the dating method. My gut feeling was that it would be counterproductive: the main worry being that the constant putting them together and splitting them up would possibly aggravate the aggression and generally cause a lot of stress without actually progressing the bond.
So I decided to take a few days off work so I could really put the hours into this bond. We made a start on Wednesday afternoon. I put them in the kitchen and made the bonding space about 1m x 2m. Better start this time. They did have a fairly big scrap about 8 hours in, which I had to break up but they settled down again (and I've been spraying the pet remedy like my life depends on it!).
Generally, they've been ok. They have been eating pretty close together and sharing herbs and forage. There's a lot of mirrored grooming and they've been inching closer together when they have a sleep. A small break through last night as they spent about half an hour next to each other in a bum to bum V shape.
At the moment they're working out the hierarchy. They've had a lot of nose to nose stand offs and nobody is capitulating on the grooming yet. There's been a few times when I thought Scipio was going to give in but no dice! I really think that once they break this impasse they'll start to make good progress.
There's still a little bit of tension and I don't think the trust is 100% there yet. It feels like there are still potential flash points so I'm having to keep a close eye on them. They're pretty much together all the time, although I do separate them with a barrier for a few hours at night as I don't fully trust them yet and I need to grab a bit of sleep! So, not quite the 24/7 bonding yet but hopefully we can eventually build up to that point. Currently they have a good 16 to 18 hours together each day.
So, overall they're getting there, albeit very slowly! Definitely the toughest bond I've done so far.
I'm glad to read a more positive update 
I'm sure that the dating method must work for some bonds, but personally I've always thought that there's the potential for putting together and then splitting them up becoming counterproductive.
Importantly it seems to be the case that not all bonding attempts are the same and sometimes not even similar and that it's necessary also to use a bit of intuition to apply your own methods based on observation of the bunnies' behaviour.
Hoping that the improvement continues and that you will soon feel happy to leave them together.
I'm sure that the dating method must work for some bonds, but personally I've always thought that there's the potential for putting together and then splitting them up becoming counterproductive. Importantly it seems to be the case that not all bonding attempts are the same and sometimes not even similar and that it's necessary also to use a bit of intuition to apply your own methods based on observation of the bunnies' behaviour.
Hoping that the improvement continues and that you will soon feel happy to leave them together.
Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
Thanks Omi. They seem to have moved on from "I hate you and I'm going to murder you in your sleep" to "I can tolerate living with you and I'm going to demand that you groom me". Which is an improvement!
I definitely agree about all bonds being different and having to adjust to each particular set of bunnies. I'd much prefer to be doing a straight 24/7 bond and I suspect that having to separate them for a few hours is slowing down the bonding progress a bit. However, given the previous issues with aggression, I'm taking a much more cautious approach with this bond.
I definitely agree about all bonds being different and having to adjust to each particular set of bunnies. I'd much prefer to be doing a straight 24/7 bond and I suspect that having to separate them for a few hours is slowing down the bonding progress a bit. However, given the previous issues with aggression, I'm taking a much more cautious approach with this bond.
Mervinius
Mama Doe
This sounds like good progress to me. I bet you are exhausted though. Hopefully one of them will cave and the grooming will start soon.
keletkezes
Wise Old Thumper
This is Chibbs' perpetual state XD Although she will aggressively groom the other, but I think only to get groomed herself because she's lived with forgetful boys ;P She also aggressively snuggles, like pushes Barrie almost over to get into his space and cuddle with him. She probably tried it with Lopsy but he was a bit bigger so harder to physically push around. Good luck, and I hope you can leave them together unbarriered 24/7 soon
joey&boo
Wise Old Thumper
I've been wondering how you were all doing. Its heartening that they are past the hate stage. It took mine that long to get there I slept through another 216 hours of more "playful" chasing 
Do you have chases? Sending my very best bonding vibes. It feels like a difficult season for bunny bonding - but thats prob just cos the members I know have struggled alongside me - I have noticed the odd post by bonding newbies ...I don't know how to bond ...whoops, already bonded posts
Do you have chases? Sending my very best bonding vibes. It feels like a difficult season for bunny bonding - but thats prob just cos the members I know have struggled alongside me - I have noticed the odd post by bonding newbies ...I don't know how to bond ...whoops, already bonded posts
Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
Here's a pic I took a couple of minutes ago. I should say that Scipio was loafing as well but sat up when I went in to take the photo.
Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
Thank you, I hope one of them caves in soon as well! I've given them quite a few speeches about it. "Why can't you just sort out who the boss is?! We've already established that I'm bottom of the pile and I'm not complaining about it!"
How are things going with Pip and Bumble?
Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
Oh, I really wish I had half of Chibbs' sass! I think Solveig would like to be like that with Scipio but he's had a taste of being top bun and I don't think he'll give up his crown easily!This is Chibbs' perpetual state XD Although she will aggressively groom the other, but I think only to get groomed herself because she's lived with forgetful boys ;P She also aggressively snuggles, like pushes Barrie almost over to get into his space and cuddle with him. She probably tried it with Lopsy but he was a bit bigger so harder to physically push around. Good luck, and I hope you can leave them together unbarriered 24/7 soon
Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
Thanks J&B. Surprisingly, no chases yet. I say surprising as Scipio chased Fudgie an awful lot during their bond. We've had mainly lunging and nipping. I have to be careful with the nipping as sometimes it's more of a bite which seems to be the trigger for it to escalate. It's very hard not to over intervene with this bond. I'm sitting outside the bonding area and watching closely.I've been wondering how you were all doing. Its heartening that they are past the hate stage. It took mine that long to get there I slept through another 216 hours of more "playful" chasing
It's funny that a few of us have had some very difficult bonds recently. Next time I'm definitely going to take them to the rescue and let them choose their own friend, as I can't go through this again!
Mervinius
Mama Doe
Yes i did a lot of why oh why cant you two just be friends and sort yourselves out. Lol
I must update my thread whoops. They are on a bonding holiday at the rescue.
joey&boo
Wise Old Thumper
Its weird how one bun has different bonding styles with each potential mate. Yeah i an huge fan of them choosing only with us it was hard enough locating one suitable girl. Stick with it scraps
Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
And here's one of them sharing some coriander. Slowly, slowly...
Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
Oh I'm really pleased you managed to get them in for some bonding at the rescue. I've got everything crossed for you all xx
