Possible neutering for Murphy

[catbalou]

Murphy is now 4 and a half months (born January 2nd). Im considering after a LOT of thought to getting him neutered. I initially wasnt going to, with him being a lone rabbit, house rabbit and the breeder saying that she has never lost any of her bucks (including Murphy's dad) to testicular cancer.
I knew about the chewing, the digging, and the potential for aggression/humping in intact males annd any peeing accidents which didnt really bother me. After doing a lot of reading in past two days and barely done anything except researching rabbit behaviour at work (dont tell the boss lol) Ive come to the conclusion that since Murphy is going to be spending his entire life in my apartment, then he needs to be happy and healthy.

I thought I could do this without the neutering but Ive noticed a few chnges in his personality over the past few days.... he's peeing on the bed in the guest room which is his room, and also peeing on my bed, and the settee. Ive had to restrict his access again after spending a full weekend two weeks ago bunny-proofing the living room.
Now he is back to having the run of his room, guest bathroom, hall and part of the open plan kitchen (Ive got two sets of gates up to stop him jumping and peeing on settee).

I do still pick him up to sit on the settee with me for a little while (Ive put a cut-off carpet over his part of the settee to protect it from any urine).... but Im constantly watching, stroking him and hoping/waiting for him to settle, which he does after a few minutes... he does this grooming ritual, then spins around and flops over and seems happy to lay there next to me.

What I want to ask... as Im terrified of him getting the op.....
1) considering his living arrangements, is it essential he gets neutered
2) does it definitely stop the spraying
3) will his personality change?
4) After the op - there is NO way he would put up with one of those cones over his head.... knowing what i know of him, this would seriously freak hime out and cause so much stress, not to mention he wouldnt be able to drink from his bowl or eat his hay properly.
5) The vets that I registered with have a hospital, that Ive checked out online and it seems "rabbit friendly" but I lost a guinea pig years ago who went for a failrly simple gallstone op but never woke up from the anaesthethic.

Sorry about the long post.... I just want the best for the both of us... and I want him back on the settee watching movies with me again.... Im typing this from laptop on my settee and he is in his room and I feel upset that we're both sitting in separate rooms.


He has his 6 month check-up at beginning of July, so I will be raising the questions to the vet then. Bearing in mind that this is the same vet who when I first got Murphy in March and took him for his vaccinations, the vet wasnt able to tell if he was male or female (which set alarm bells ringing) .... so I dont even know yet whether it will be spaying or neutering required.

 

[Shimmer]

Sorry about your G Pig. They are higher risk under anaesthetic, and vets don't generally get as much experience with them as other pets. I was asked to take mine in to help train the nurses (general handling, etc) as they see so few of them.

I've found that most vets are not good at sexing (young) rabbits. By about 3-4 months, boys should be a lot more obvious as their testicles descend. You should be able to tell at that point. Neutering does usually stop the spraying and buzzing once the hormone levels have stabilised again (so it might be a couple of months). Where neutering is left until later, some of the behaviour may become habit rather than just hormonally driven - so there's an argument for especially house rabbits to be done as soon as possible. Leaving them entire will definitely not stop the spraying, and behaviour will be much more hormonally driven to the point of being a nuisance to others and frustrating for the rabbit. They are much more settled if they are neutered and their personality comes through.

I've never had a cone on a rabbit after neutering. Cones can stop them eating properly (as you mentioned), reaching their cecotropes and be generally stressful. Just check the wound a couple of times a day. They may need additional support for the first day - so make sure there is a warm spot available if needed (they can't regulate temperature straight after an anaesthetic) and be prepared to syringe feed if they are not eating properly for themselves.

Girls need to be stopped from damaging the wound area by jumping around, so may need their space restricted for a week or two. It's a bigger op, so pain relief should always be provided. It can be more difficult to get pain relief for boys, but it's worth asking.

There's usually a wound check back at the vet a few days after an operation.

 

[Omi]

I've not much to add to what Shimmer has said. All of which I agree with.

Very many years ago, before I knew better, I had an entire male rabbit, who lived alone. He became at times very frustrated and grabbed anything he could reach, including my legs.

It should be evident by now what sex Murphy is. If it were me, this would be what I would want to establish asap, so that I would know which operation to expect. I also agree with Shimmer, that if Murphy is a boy rabbit, then it would be better to get him done as soon as his testicles have dropped. Whether spay or neuter, I would want to discuss the operation first with the vet for reassurance.

I also have never used a cone.

 

[catbalou]

Thank you Shimmer, thats given me a lot more insight than I found using google

Murphy doesnt have a cage or pen... just a room, so to stop him jumping around will be difficult, but I think what I'll do is use the gates that I have and try and enclose him a space around the coffee table he sleeps in (its a long story... two layered coffee table where he sleeps on a fleece and satin pillowcases... he loves it and although he has entire room, i always find him in there)

I'll probably take a week off work, just so I can keep checking to make sure he isnt trying to bite any stitches and keep him comfy and so he can have company.

I'll ask the questions in July on his six month check and as to make an appointment.

Ironically enough, he's sat on my settee as Im typing and no peeing, attached pic. Maybe he knows what Im planning!

 

[catbalou]

I've not much to add to what Shimmer has said. All of which I agree with.

Very many years ago, before I knew better, I had an entire male rabbit, who lived alone. He became at times very frustrated and grabbed anything he could reach, including my legs.

It should be evident by now what sex Murphy is. If it were me, this would be what I would want to establish asap, so that I would know which operation to expect. I also agree with Shimmer, that if Murphy is a boy rabbit, then it would be better to get him done as soon as his testicles have dropped. Whether spay or neuter, I would want to discuss the operation first with the vet for reassurance.

I also have never used a cone.

Thank you, in light of that then Im not going to wait until his/her 6 month check up and phone the vets monday to book an appointment asap.

When you said you had an entire male rabbit who lived alone before you knew better, I have an entire male rabbit who lives alone too. Did you get him neutered eventually, or did he live his life intact

 

[Omi]

Thank you, in light of that then Im not going to wait until his/her 6 month check up and phone the vets monday to book an appointment asap.

When you said you had an entire male rabbit who lived alone before you knew better, I have an entire male rabbit who lives alone too. Did you get him neutered eventually, or did he live his life intact

Sadly he lived his whole life intact. I have to say, it's something that really shocks and embarrasses me now.

 

[catbalou]

Sorry to be naive and thick here, but can you explain why you felt embarrassed and shocked for not neutering him?

 

[Omi]

Sorry to be naive and thick here, but can you explain why you felt embarrassed and shocked for not neutering him?

Shocked and embarrassed that I knew so little about how to care properly for rabbits.

 

[catbalou]

Shocked and embarrassed that I knew so little about how to care properly for rabbits.

I see what you are getting at. Thanks.

I am also embarrassed and shocked to have thought that I could care properly for rabbits.

 

[catbalou]

Initially fazed by your insult, but have had time to think it over and realise its just a comment from a young kid on the internet and I should have had no reason to react to it as I am a pensioner and was taught to rise above such things. Murphy and I will sort it out between us. We have happy years ahead for us, hopefully your years ahead are less judgemental and bitter.

 

[William]

I've had 4 boys neutered and didn't lose any of them to the op. But sadly one of them already had a tumor in his testicles (which is why I was neutering him) and I ultimately lost him due to the tumor

I would always have rabbits fixed for their own health. The hormonal behavior also isn't much fun for rabbit or human. Athough, IME not all unfixed rabbits will display a lot of frustrating behavior. Really depends on the rabbit. It's also nice that neutering allows you to get another rabbit. Rabbits are very social and happiest when they've got a buddy of their own species.

Definitely keep a close eye on their input and output in the days following the op. Mine needed a lot of tempting to eat, to the point that I was hand feeding some of them hay, etc, and having to annoy them by sticking food in their face to get them to eat. It was pretty worrying.

Beforehand, it'd be good to read up on stasis, syringe feeding, and have supplies prepared ahead of time (e.g. syringe feeding equipment, his favorite herbs and hays).

 

[bunny momma]

I see what you are getting at. Thanks.

I am also embarrassed and shocked to have thought that I could care properly for rabbits.

I do not know why you took offense when this member was only trying to respond to your questions. Allow me to explain. Before we had forums and Google, many of us were ignorant on rabbit care, keeping them in cages and feeding them pellets or worse. Our resources were limited to breeders and pet store staff.

It is clear you want to educate yourself so you can do what is best for Murphy.

I had a male who was not neutered when he was young. Smokey got testicular cancer and was neutered when he was much older and the risk of anesthesia was greater.

I also had an unspayed female who required an emergency spay because of a large uterine tumor. This is very common.

 

[InspectorMorse]

I have kept Rabbits for 28 years, caring for 152 of them in that time. The only one who was not neutered was Ruffles, he came to me as a 12 year old entire Buck. Whilst he did not have any health problems relating to him being entire he had spent 12 years all alone . He never knew the love and joy found in having a companion of his own kind When he came to me he was too frail due to his age to make neutering safe. So the best I could do for him was provide him with lots of TLC . He passed away just over a year later in his sleep aged almost 14. I always felt a sadness that he had to spend his whole life alone, even if it wasn’t my fault.


I would never not neuter/ spay a Rabbit as the health and welfare benefits by far outweigh any risk surgery might pose. And personally I would never keep a single Rabbit except in exceptional circumstances. Rabbits really do need a companion of their own kind if we are to truly meet all of their welfare needs. No human can ever equate to the companionship of another Rabbit. Companionship of their own kind is part of a Rabbit’s welfare needs as set out in the Animal Welfare Act 2006

Animal Welfare Act 2006

An Act to make provision about animal welfare; and for connected purposes.

www.legislation.gov.uk

In the care of a Rabbit Savvy Vet it is highly unlikely that anything will go wrong during a routine neuter. But as with any GA for any living being, it can never be 100% risk free. But as previously mentioned, benefits of neutering far outweigh any small risks.

Neutering – Castration and Spaying

Discover the importance of neutering, castration, and spaying for your rabbit's health and welfare with RWAF's expert guide.

rabbitwelfare.co.uk

Companionship

Rabbits should never be alone. Click here to find out all about the importance of Rabbit Companionship today.

rabbitwelfare.co.uk

https://www.bva.co.uk/media/3284/bva-bvzs-and-bsava-policy-position-on-housing-pet-rabbits-in-compatible-pairs-or-groups-full-jan-2020.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0YqSR8Ew97L_qEdvOHkJrlcMcx-mn8FRipAmYQNYNY0fjLqbdBVRbAf0g

https://www.bluecross.org.uk/advice/rabbit/health-and-injuries/rabbits-and-surgery

 

[Omi]

Initially fazed by your insult, but have had time to think it over and realise its just a comment from a young kid on the internet and I should have had no reason to react to it as I am a pensioner and was taught to rise above such things. Murphy and I will sort it out between us. We have happy years ahead for us, hopefully your years ahead are less judgemental and bitter.

First of all I want you to know that I had absolutely no intention of insulting you and I am really sorry and upset that you took it that way.

My post was intended to offer my personal experience of 'frustration' experienced by an entire buck rabbit that I cared for many years ago. As bunny momma said, years ago we did not have the benefit of the online resources available now. It is true that I do regret that I didn't get him neutered and the 'me' today is 'shocked and embarrassed' that I did that. My post was truly intended to be helpful to you.

As for being a young kid on the internet, no I'm not. I'm probably older than you!

 

[catbalou]

First of all I want you to know that I had absolutely no intention of insulting you and I am really sorry and upset that you took it that way.

My post was intended to offer my personal experience of 'frustration' experienced by an entire buck rabbit that I cared for many years ago. As bunny momma said, years ago we did not have the benefit of the online resources available now. It is true that I do regret that I didn't get him neutered and the 'me' today is 'shocked and embarrassed' that I did that. My post was truly intended to be helpful to you.

As for being a young kid on the internet, no I'm not. I'm probably older than you!

I apologise. I wrongly assumed that since I too have an intact male rabbit and Im constantly asking questions that you were having a go at my incapability's of protecting and caring for Murphy.
I saw red, and I am sorry for that. Its just that it has been an extremely stressful week and due to my experience of having a vet phone me to say my guinea pig passed away under the anaesthetic (it was 30 years ago, but I still remember the devastation of bringing his dead body back in a plastic bag to be buried in the garden) I am still sceptical of anaesthetic.

I also too note the words that rabbits should never be alone. In the research I did, it was accepted that yes, its not ideal, but if the person could offer a lot of company and enrichment and free-roam, then a lone rabbit could still enjoy a happy life. I believed that, so that is why I got Murphy as I dont go out on nights or weekends or have holidays and Im constantly here.
But yes, I feel guilty everyday that he has no rabbit friends.

I may have got him through selfish reasons of being so lonely, but I genuinely think that I can give him a happy life. Murphy will be my last pet, due to my age, and I have gone all out to try and create an environment for him that is safe, fun and comfortable.
I want him to have free roam again, so Im going to go through with the neutering.... even though the thought of him being under anaesthetic absolutely terrifies me.

My initial thought was that neutering would be cruel... but now i can see that rabbits confined to a house, with natural hormonal instincts and frustration that goes with it is even crueller.

Absolutely sobbing as Im writing this as its been such a stressful time having to restrict his roaming, but Im going to put a waterproof blanket on my settee so we can be together

 

[Omi]

I apologise. I wrongly assumed that since I too have an intact male rabbit and Im constantly asking questions that you were having a go at my incapability's of protecting and caring for Murphy.
I saw red, and I am sorry for that. Its just that it has been an extremely stressful week and due to my experience of having a vet phone me to say my guinea pig passed away under the anaesthetic (it was 30 years ago, but I still remember the devastation of bringing his dead body back in a plastic bag to be buried in the garden) I am still sceptical of anaesthetic.

I also too note the words that rabbits should never be alone. In the research I did, it was accepted that yes, its not ideal, but if the person could offer a lot of company and enrichment and free-roam, then a lone rabbit could still enjoy a happy life. I believed that, so that is why I got Murphy as I dont go out on nights or weekends or have holidays and Im constantly here.
But yes, I feel guilty everyday that he has no rabbit friends.

I may have got him through selfish reasons of being so lonely, but I genuinely think that I can give him a happy life. Murphy will be my last pet, due to my age, and I have gone all out to try and create an environment for him that is safe, fun and comfortable.
I want him to have free roam again, so Im going to go through with the neutering.... even though the thought of him being under anaesthetic absolutely terrifies me.

My initial thought was that neutering would be cruel... but now i can see that rabbits confined to a house, with natural hormonal instincts and frustration that goes with it is even crueller.

Absolutely sobbing as Im writing this as its been such a stressful time having to restrict his roaming, but Im going to put a waterproof blanket on my settee so we can be together

Thank you for this. I appreciate it.

 

[catbalou]

Thank you for this. I appreciate it.

Hopefully I can reply back on Murphy's neutering day as I will be absolutely terrified and hoping for support as I have no one to talk to.
I will spend the day after dropping him off cleaning his room and making a comfortable recovery pen for him, ensuring his recovery area is as clean as possible and will probably spend the night with him in his room to keep a check on him and dissuade him from licking/scratching stitches.

 

[catbalou]

Subjecting Murphy now to 4 hours of Eurovision song contest with me... with regular litter breaks, exercise breaks and a treat break. Hopefully he wont hate me, but I tune in to eurovision every year.

 

[Omi]

Hopefully I can reply back on Murphy's neutering day as I will be absolutely terrified and hoping for support as I have no one to talk to.
I will spend the day after dropping him off cleaning his room and making a comfortable recovery pen for him, ensuring his recovery area is as clean as possible and will probably spend the night with him in his room to keep a check on him and dissuade him from licking/scratching stitches.

Most people will understand your anxiety and many will have been through the same experience themselves. So you can expect that there will be people to provide advice and support, plus answer any questions you may have.

 

[catbalou]

thank you.