Poorly elderly bunny.

[Mrs]

Hello all,
My 8yr old bunny has been unwell for a couple of weeks- firstly with conjunctivitis and secondly with a strange illness. He's on Baytril and Metacam - 4th dose today. I took him to the vet last Sunday as he was shallow breathing fast and his nostrils were flaring, in fact he was "puffing". The vet couldn't give a definite diagnosis - said it could be infection or an underlying tumour. Bun seems happy otherwise - eating, pooping, grooming, etc. However he gets so stressed when we give him his medicine - tonight I actually thought he'd died in my arms! He calmed down after a good 10 mins. He's due back at the vets on Sunday. I wouldn't say he's any better or any worse. Any ideas what this might be?

 

[Omi]

I don't know what the issue is but it sounds as though he has a serious respiratory problem.

Do you know whether your vet is rabbit savvy? Many vets aren't. I would be concerned if a vet suggested that my bunny either had an infection or an underlying tumour, without suggesting some diagnostics to identify the problem better. Also if it were an infection, then there should be other symptoms accompanying that, which the vet could be aware of. Some bunnies do get very stressed when receving medication and giving medication via injection is usually less stressful.

Sending lots of good wishes for your bunny.

 

[Mrs]

Hello all,
My 8yr old bunny has been unwell for a couple of weeks- firstly with conjunctivitis and secondly with a strange illness. He's on Baytril and Metacam - 4th dose today. I took him to the vet last Sunday as he was shallow breathing fast and his nostrils were flaring, in fact he was "puffing". The vet couldn't give a definite diagnosis - said it could be infection or an underlying tumour. Bun seems happy otherwise - eating, pooping, grooming, etc. However he gets so stressed when we give him his medicine - tonight I actually thought he'd died in my arms! He calmed down after a good 10 mins. He's due back at the vets on Sunday. I wouldn't say he's any better or any worse. Any ideas what this might be?

I don't know what the issue is but it sounds as though he has a serious respiratory problem.

Do you know whether your vet is rabbit savvy? Many vets aren't. I would be concerned if a vet suggested that my bunny either had an infection or an underlying tumour, without suggesting some diagnostics to identify the problem better. Also if it were an infection, then there should be other symptoms accompanying that, which the vet could be aware of. Some bunnies do get very stressed when receving medication and giving medication via injection is usually less stressful.

Sending lots of good wishes for your bunny.

Thank you. Have just looked back at my posts - the first one was just after we got our 2 buns - I can't believe time has flown!
I believe the vet practice is rabbit savvy, when I chose that particular one, being an inexperienced bunny mum, I looked for the Rabbit Welfare accreditation - if that means anything!
Basically the vet we saw asked me if I wanted to try with our bun! I assume by giving him a chance - obvs we do! He'll be 9 in the summer and I assume far too elderly for invasive surgery. At the moment it seems too much exertion stresses him. The syringes for his medication was a completely awful thing to see. I really thought he'd passed away.
This bun has only ever been ill once before - last summer with fly strike which after 2 days in the vets he recovered from - £800 later!! I'm thinking if the medication he's on isn't helping him then maybe he has something more sinister. His brother is fine.

 

[Omi]

I have an eight year old bunny as well and I think I would want to know more accurately what I was dealing with. So, I would want at the very least a full blood profile. If a tumour is suspected, I would want to know what the indications were for that as a diagnosis and possibly also ask for an ultrasound or CT scan. If a tumour is confirmed, then there will be options for palliative care if surgery is ruled out.

How is your bunny this morning?

 

[Mrs]

Hello there, bun today is no better nor any worse. I've been bathing his eyes daily & putting in drops ( swapped to drops as the original vet gave ointment which was too messy to administer - drops much better). He's eating fine, grooming himself (and me) fine. Still rapid breathing though. Dreading tonight with his medication syringes! It really stresses him out.

 

[Omi]

If you could guarantee that he would eat it all, you could try disguising the medication in some food. Sometimes they can be persuaded to eat vegetable or fruit babyfood with the meds hidden within.

 

[Mrs]

Hi, the first night, after the initial injections, he took it like a dream! The second night was a struggle. Tonight I'm going to avoid wrapping him up & just offer the syringe to him. I thought of mixing the 2 meds into one syringe to see if he'll have it a bit at a time. Other than that, I'll try your suggestion - he's partial to a Rich Tea biscuit!

 

[Orenoko]

I agree with @Omi, try hiding the meds in something like baby food. I like a baby food/critical care mix as it really seems to disguise the flavour. Baytril is notoriously yucky but you may be able to persuade him to take the metacam as that actually tastes nice, you could try a bit on your finger and see if he will take that from you. I would definitely be seeking a second opinion however as his symptoms seems a bit unusual bless him.

 

[Mrs]

Here he is! Just after his eye wash. His 3rd eyelid seems prominent.

 

[Mrs]

We were back at the vets today, Sunday. We've had ups & downs this week & thought we'd lost him on 2 occasions after administering his medications. The stress is just not good for him. Basically, it's unlikely to be an infection as no crackly sounds on examination. His eyes have cleared up. He's still having the breathing problems, sometimes holding his head up as if to get more air. I was able to show the vet a video of this. The anti inflammatory & antibiotics have made no difference, so the likelihood is that there's an underlying tumour. He's not fit for sedation for xrays. I've decided to carry on, not stress him with medications, keep him calm - any exertion stresses him. He's still happily eating, grooming, etc and doesn't seem at THAT point yet, but I think it will come. We'll just see how he goes.

 

[fiona7757]

Hello all,
My 8yr old bunny has been unwell for a couple of weeks- firstly with conjunctivitis and secondly with a strange illness. He's on Baytril and Metacam - 4th dose today. I took him to the vet last Sunday as he was shallow breathing fast and his nostrils were flaring, in fact he was "puffing". The vet couldn't give a definite diagnosis - said it could be infection or an underlying tumour. Bun seems happy otherwise - eating, pooping, grooming, etc. However he gets so stressed when we give him his medicine - tonight I actually thought he'd died in my arms! He calmed down after a good 10 mins. He's due back at the vets on Sunday. I wouldn't say he's any better or any worse. Any ideas what this might be?

It could be Pasteurella which is a common respiratory bacteria that many rabbits carry from birth having been infected by their mothers. If a rabbit is run down or has any other problem it can appear as an infection and can be difficult to clear. He would need a long term antibiotic specifically for respiratory infections - I know Baytril is not one of them as it's more of a broad spectrum antibiotic. Ideally a culture should be taken of deep within the nasal cavity which would require sedation - so not ideal if he has respiratory issues. You could also try a Flixotide 125mcg inhaler with an aerosol chamber like this - https://www.weldricks.co.uk/products/aerokat-feline-aerosol-chamber. I got mine much cheaper on Amazon I think it was. This is a steroid inhaler which reduces inflammation.
Are you giving him his meds using a 1ml syringe in the side of his mouth behind his front teeth? Shouldn't be too much of a problem if you sit him on your lap with his rear up against your body and your elbow of your spare arm around him so he can't escape and use this hand to lift his top lip on the side of his mouth and you should then be able to slide the syringe in without having to really open his mouth. You can mix any bitter tasting meds with a bit of sugared water but don't make it too concentrated. The metacam should be fine tastewise.

 

[Mrs]

Thanks for replying.
I thought it could be pasteurella, but the vet thought not. The first time last week he took his medication with no problems, wrapped up in a towel on my knee whilst husband gave it to him via syringe in the gap behind his incisors. However from the next night onwards he seemed to know what was coming. We tried mango puree without success. In desperation today I asked the vet to give him today's dose via injection, which they did. Out of 7 doses over the week, he's only had 5 of them. I've just been stroking him which he likes, but hates being carried and this makes him really stressed. He's happy out in his run in the sun, but I just feel really sad that he's got whatever this thing is, in fact I can't concentrate on much else! His brother (not bonded) was from the same litter and by looking at him, I can see the effort in his breathing as compared to his healthy brother. His only symptom now is rapid breathing & puffing via his top lips. He's never had a "snotty" nose. He did have sore eyes but the Chloramphenicol drops seem to have sorted this. I think the vet is thinking that as he's nearly 9, there's not a lot they can do & have said they can't help him any further. I'm struggling to accept this!

 

[Omi]

Is the vet aware that he has only had 5 doses out of the 7 over the week? It could also be an option that the vet shows you how to give him the meds via injection.

You could also discuss with the vet whether a nebuliser could help with his breathing.

 

[Mrs]

Hello, yes I told the vet all about the 5 out of 7 doses. I'd love to be able to inject him myself - but I'm not sure either of them are working for his symptoms. A week ago I suspected thymoma as his eyes were bulging. The first vet that saw him diagnosed conjunctivitis- but I'm not sure this was correct. I'm clutching at straws. It doesn't help that neither bunny are insured.

 

[Omi]

If your vets are not coming up with alternative options for your bunny, then maybe seek a second opinion from a different vet?

 

[fiona7757]

Thanks for replying.
I thought it could be pasteurella, but the vet thought not. The first time last week he took his medication with no problems, wrapped up in a towel on my knee whilst husband gave it to him via syringe in the gap behind his incisors. However from the next night onwards he seemed to know what was coming. We tried mango puree without success. In desperation today I asked the vet to give him today's dose via injection, which they did. Out of 7 doses over the week, he's only had 5 of them. I've just been stroking him which he likes, but hates being carried and this makes him really stressed. He's happy out in his run in the sun, but I just feel really sad that he's got whatever this thing is, in fact I can't concentrate on much else! His brother (not bonded) was from the same litter and by looking at him, I can see the effort in his breathing as compared to his healthy brother. His only symptom now is rapid breathing & puffing via his top lips. He's never had a "snotty" nose. He did have sore eyes but the Chloramphenicol drops seem to have sorted this. I think the vet is thinking that as he's nearly 9, there's not a lot they can do & have said they can't help him any further. I'm struggling to accept this!

Baytril is not the right antibiotic for respiratory problems as far as I’m aware. My rabbit had exactly the same problem and I know we tried the banana flavoured one but would have to look back through my notes to see what it’s called. Unfortunately we had to put him to sleep as we never got on top of it and he ended up with scarring on his lungs. Can you try giving him the antibiotic kneeling on the ground with him between your legs? Try the sugared water with it drawing the antibiotic up first and the sugared water last so he tastes that first? 1ml syringe would be the right size. If he’s lifting his head up to breathe I think the problem is quite severe and the last thing you want is for him to go downhill really quickly when you can’t get to the vet quickly. Sorry I know it’s not what you want to hear - it’s agonising looking after rabbits sometimes and trying to make the right decisions- I feel for you!

 

[Mrs]

Hi, yes it's agonising to say the least. He's due his next syringes tomorrow, after the vet injected today. By hook or by crook we must get him to have them! Friday night's attempt was horrifying. Although he's poorly, he's strong! It ended with him going limp, stretched out, rapid breathing! It took me a while to calm him. Although he adores being massaged & stroked, he's still "jumpy ". I'm thinking that it's not what's in the syringe, it's just the sight of it!! He's very clever. I just accepted what the vet gave me last week, without questioning it, as he couldn't give me a definite diagnosis, nor could he guarantee the medicine would improve his symptoms. I'm worried that the stress caused by giving the medication might actually kill him! I'm sorry to hear about your bunny having gone through a similar thing - it's heartbreaking.

 

[InspectorMorse]

He is showing all the classic signs of either pneumonia or a mass in his chest cavity, possibly a Thymoma

IMO he is probably too sick to survive sedation for a chest X-ray so I would want the Vet to treat on an assumed diagnosis of pneumonia.Treatment needs to be VERY aggressive, antibiotics by injection, usually Depocillin, another antibiotic via nebuliser, a mucolytic such as bisolvon to thin out the mucus, a bronchodilator to open up the airways in the lungs, a diuretic if there’s a lot of fluid in his chest cavity.

A NSAID to reduce inflammation

Oxygen therapy

If he’s not eating then assisted feeds and prokinetics drugs to try to prevent secondary gut stasis

IMO he requires hospitalisation to receive this level of care

Really hope he will pull through, but mouth breathing is sadly a very poor prognostic sign

 

[Mrs]

Thank you. I suspected a thymoma. The vet said an xray would need sedation, which he's unfit for. They basically said there's no more that can be done for him. However, when the current course of meds are low, I'll request more. He's been out in the sun today, had a face wash and a brush. He's eating like a trooper - I've been out & bought some more cherries which he loves. I'm trying not to stress him as this is when he gets optimal breathing problems. I would be willing to hospitalise him, but haven't been given the opportunity for this. Today he hasn't been mouth breathing as such, occasionally holding his nose up in the fresh air as if he's sniffing, but obvs it's to get more air. I'm hoping for a miracle. My local vets who first diagnosed conjunctivitis are of no help. The others are slightly better, but with no continuity of care.

 

[InspectorMorse]

Thank you. I suspected a thymoma. The vet said an xray would need sedation, which he's unfit for. They basically said there's no more that can be done for him. However, when the current course of meds are low, I'll request more. He's been out in the sun today, had a face wash and a brush. He's eating like a trooper - I've been out & bought some more cherries which he loves. I'm trying not to stress him as this is when he gets optimal breathing problems. I would be willing to hospitalise him, but haven't been given the opportunity for this. Today he hasn't been mouth breathing as such, occasionally holding his nose up in the fresh air as if he's sniffing, but obvs it's to get more air. I'm hoping for a miracle. My local vets who first diagnosed conjunctivitis are of no help. The others are slightly better, but with no continuity of care.

Have you requested hospitalisation? If not I strongly suggest you do so ASAP