neutered bonded pair have started fighting!

[vicky123]

Hi there-can't seem to find a thread that is quite the same as my problem:

We have a gorgeous pair of mini lops (boy and girl) who have both been neutered for around 11 months and bonded about 4 weeks after the op on vet and breeder advice. bonding went really well and they have been happily living together in a large indoor cage for about 10 months with no problems.
they are both really lovely bunnies who seem to usually like nothing better than laying together and lots of grooming.

however....yesterday whilst running around our living room as usual they started fighting and hair pulling. we separated them immediately and they have been in separate cages but so they can see each other for 24 hours. this morning we tired them together again under supervision at breakfast time but they started circling and hair pulling so we pulled them straight apart before a full blown fight started again!

It is exceptionally out of character for them to fight as they have been bonded for 10 months or more with no problems at all. we bonded them slowly after neutering, they have 7 or more hours running around in the day and have lots of toys and the largest cage we could find for indoors. therefore really struggling to understand why this has started?! we have not changed anything recently although i have noticed in the last couple of weeks that our little girl has not been as good at using her litter tray as normal....i have found a couple of wee patches on our carpet, but she is usually very good and always uses the tray...not sure if this could have anything to do with it?!!

very concerned that we are now going to have trouble getting them to be friends again any advice would be brilliant!

 

[The Duchess]

Hello

I would have to suggest that it could be something as simple as weird weather - ours are affected by it quite often. Or daft as it may sound, moon phases (new moons and full moons often coinciding with chasing) as nature is affected by such things.

of course it could be as straight forward as the bunnies trying to adjust the pecking order as they mature, despite being neutered. Provided it doesn't worsen this can be allowed to continue until such time as it settles, but is an idea to watch them for some time so observe their normal behaviour. Oh, and I would suggest that the weeing issue could certainly be related to changing heirachy and she's marking territory.

Whilst we didn't witness what you did (and therefore don't know if it was absolutely necessary to split), I'd have to say that sadly by seperating them you have possibly caused a bit of an issue as you will now have to rebond from scratch or near enough scratch.

The best trick in the book for bunnies who start to chase (provided it hasn't escalated to injuries/blood) is to put them somewhere small such as a carrier for a while and this generally stops it. Even take them for a drive round, but never seperate. Now you have the buns next to each other, you will need to reintroduce somewhere totally neutral away from where they are now as they will be owning each side. Try them in a carrier or similar so that they are face to face but can't chase round. In general by reducing space right down when chasing occurs, it nips this in the bud.

Helen

 

[Amy104]

It would also be a good idea to get both bunnies health checked as sometimes the can start fighting if one of them is unwell. My bun Bluebell has had real problems with allergies this summer and it has made him a bit grumpy at time and can sometimes set off a bit of a scuffle with his wife bun.

 

[The Duchess]

It would also be a good idea to get both bunnies health checked as sometimes the can start fighting if one of them is unwell. My bun Bluebell has had real problems with allergies this summer and it has made him a bit grumpy at time and can sometimes set off a bit of a scuffle with his wife bun.

This is so true. It can be because one bun doesn't want to be bothered by the other and ends up having to see the bun off, or it can because one bun is trying to distance itself from an unwell bun (to lower the risk of predator attack as it would be in the wild).

Are there any signs of any health issues, change in poo production, excess moulting, loss of appetite?

 

[vicky123]

thank you both for your great advice!

I will definitely try them in a neutral small space as this worked well when they were first bonded.....hormonal adjustment would make a lot of sence as they are both still young.

as for health issues our girl had a slight runny nose about a month ago, we took her to the vet but they said she was fine and there was no need for treatment and just suggested cutting down the amount of bedding we put in (which is minimal as they only have a litter tray and a large hay rack). I now sweep out the cage daily or more to make sure there isnt too much hay dust around and as far as i can tell she is back to normal and no more wet nose.

the fight was pretty aggressive (grunting, jumping and lots of hair being pulled out) however could not see any signs of blood/broken skin on checking them both over afterwards. my partner suggested letting them get on with it as we presumed some kind of dominance issue but i am concerned they might just keep going until we separated them!...which might have then ended in blood

 

[The Duchess]

Well it does sound like a bit of dominance behaviour then and I would start at the beginning so to speak and try and rebond in a small neutral space. Sounds like you might have done the right thing to split them at that time. I'd allocate a weekend where you can sit and watch and keep a towel or long handled broom handy so that you can put them back together and use either item to hold inbetween them if they start to chase again. If you hold and release, in other words stop for a few moments and then take away the broom or towel from between them they should pause. They may start up again but if you keep doing this, eventually if it's going to work, it should start to get less and less until it subsides altogether. It may not take long if they were already bonded, but be prepared to take a couple of days over it before you leave them unattended for any length of time.

Good luck. Hope they find their loving mojo again soon.

 

[ChristyRose]

I have got exactly the same problem. Jake and Violet have been together since last November and have never fought. Yesterday, they dug their way out of their run. They were having a lovely time hopping round the garden while I was gardening. After a while they started fighting. I put them back in their cage but it carried on. I sat with them and kept seperating them when they started fighting but had to seperate them when I went to bed as one of them was squealing. Put them out in their run this morning and the fighting has started up again. It seems to be Jake going for Violet. Just dont understand what has happened. Jake usually loves Violet. I've seperated them while I come and write this. It really is very unusual behaviour for both of them!!

 

[willowholly]

If one is weeing outside the litter tray,do you think that one may have some renal problems & so,like the others have said,may be getting ratty with the other one as doesn't feel well?

 

[ChristyRose]

Have found out why they are fighting. Violet is in boy!! So I now have 2 male rabbits!! What do I do? I bought 'Violet' as a companion for Jake. So now they are both on their own. I've already got 2 other rabbits who are paired. If I get 2 more females then I'll have 6 and I'd have to get 'Violet' spayed and buy another cage and run. The expense!! Or I find them another home - but I love them. I'm such a soft touch!!

 

[staceyemiliou]

I have 2 male buns who live together fine, they lived for a while unneutered but now have been done. THey lived together fine before so theirs nothing to say they can't get along again, maybe neuter the one which hasn't been done and reintroduce them.

 

[ChristyRose]

How old were your two when you had them spayed? Once you've had them spayed it takes a few months for their hormones to die down. I'm just worried they'll still not get on. Might be worth a try. My husband wants me to get rid of them. I suffer from ME and he says all the extra work is too much for me. I just worry that someone else will take them on and stick them at the bottom of the garden and forget about them.

 

[jubbly]

Hi Vicky, this is really similar to my situation :wave:

I've had my two boys Colin and Justin since about last November, there was a bit of humping until they had been neutered but since then they've been best friends....until a couple of weeks ago.

Justin is the more mischevious one and often kicks Colin by accident when he's racing round, Colin has obviously decided enough is enough and has now started chasing Justin and biting his back end. After this happened a few times Justin has become scared of Colin and has started running away every time he comes near him, even if Colin is actually trying to make friends

I've tried taking them out in the car to rebond but as soon as they're back at home it would start again. In the end I've divided their space up so they're separate but can still see each other and I swap sides every day. Have you thought about swapping the sides they're on so that they don't get territorial about their halves? Or swapping litter trays?

I've been letting them out in the living room together on an evening and the last couple of days they've been a lot better, Justin letting Colin groom him, but then I tried them back in the same cage and the chasing started straight away. It's hard to know what to do for the best as I don't want to keep them separate and end up making them even less bonded but I also don't want to shut them back in together and risk one of them really getting hurt.

I think Duchess's idea is a good one, hopefully I will have time to do that this weekend.

I wonder if something happens hormone-wise at about a year old as there seems to be a few people in the same situation.

Good luck, let us know how you're getting on!

 

[jubbly]

Good luck Christy Rose too

 

[jubbly]

Sorry, just read the posts again and how it started may be similar to yours ChristyRose.

Mine started their problems after we went on holiday and left them with a friend. Whilst they were at her house they escaped from her kitchen and went on a little adventure upstairs and into her bedroom :shock: (we called it rabbit-gate!)

Anyway, after rabbit-gate it seemed that Colin suddenly had more confidence and wouldn't stand for Justins silliness anymore! They've also both started pooing all over a big rug in the living room since then.

Are things any better with your two yet? It is a lot more work having them separate and such a shame when they used to get on so well

 

[ChristyRose]

Have tried putting them together again but they just started fighting again. Its such a shame because they used to be so close.

 

[vicky123]

I will defo be taking duchesses advice this weekend and spend as long as it takes (hopefully) to supervise them and split up th fights hopefully until it stops.

we have tried them in neutral space this week for about an hour and a half and they eventually settled down, however as soon as they were back home even in open space in the living room they started again....

since my last post i have tried them in the car however had the same issue as jubbly in that as soon as they were home it all started again!! I have been swapping cages and litter trays every few hours and they are in view of each other so hopefully that is helping in some way as they are still getting lots of each others smells.

I also took our little girl to the vets yesterday and she has been given a clean bill of health so no problems there. our vet is very experienced with rabbits and said it is almost 100% hormone related and said she sees quite a lot of girls around 12 months that seem to get a bit moody even if it has been 6 months since neutering.

fingers crossed we can make some progress this weekend!

also....any tips to try and stop our girl scenting everywhere??

 

[KoShiatar]

also....any tips to try and stop our girl scenting everywhere??

If you mean chinning stuff, it doesn't do any damage and the scent is not perceptible to humans, so I would just let it be. She's just saying "I like this, this is mine!" in a bunny way.

 

[vicky123]

no sorry should have been clearer.... she is weeing and leaving poos. They both quite happily scent with their chins but our girl is obviously really trying to mark what she thinks is hers!...not so good for our carpets though

 

[VickiP]

no sorry should have been clearer.... she is weeing and leaving poos. They both quite happily scent with their chins but our girl is obviously really trying to mark what she thinks is hers!...not so good for our carpets though

Have you thought about trying them as outdoors buns? Haven't read all the thread but, as they are a bonded pair it might be more suitable to go outside, maybe a bit more natural for them?