Is this E Cuniculi or something else?

[LionheadBells]

I could do with some advice/experiences to help me make a decision whether my (approx 5 year old) lionhead should be put to sleep or whether we should keep trying.

Just over a month ago we noticed Bella was walking oddly with her right hind leg splaying out. We took her to the vet who treated her for dermatitis on her left (opposite) hock and did not entertain the idea of EC or anything else. She did not think there were any musculoskeletal injuries. Weight at this point 1.97kg.

I decided to start her on Panacur independent of the vet just in case as EC is time sensitive.

Fast forward 3 weeks and her right leg was just being dragged behind her. She couldn’t put any weight through it (I can put my finger under it and lift it with zero resistance) and there is quite visible muscle atrophy. She doesn’t appear to have any sensation in this leg. She saw a different vet at this point who has given her some metacam. She said to continue the course of panacur but that she doubts it’s e Cuniculi. Again she ruled out an injury and felt it’s likely neurological. Weight at this point was 1.86kg.

2 days later, we noticed Bella was now mostly deaf and only twitches her ears to whistles. She has stopped drinking water but is still eating a lot. The only way we are getting fluids into her is by soaking her vegetables and syringe feeding her very dilute apple juice which she seems to enjoy. She is getting progressively more lethargic. Her mobility fluctuates between constantly falling over to being able to hop short distances on her left leg. She is now on day 24 of panacur.

The vet offered to refer to an exotic specialist but feels we ought to just keep her comfortable. The specialist is 2 hours drive each way which is too much for Bella at this point and I don’t feel it is in her best interest as we are already treating her for EC.

We are at the point where we need to consider making the right decision for her which is really tough because I’ve read about all sorts of cases where rabbits much worse than Bella have recovered from EC. We had to give her a bottom wash yesterday as she had poo down her left leg. She sleeps most of the time, isn’t drinking and seems to be generally quite frustrated and fed up.

My questions are:
If it was EC wouldn’t she have shown signs of improvement by now rather than progression of her symptoms?

Has anyone else experienced these symptoms with their rabbit and been found to have EC?

I’m stuck in a difficult situation where if she has something like a progressive cancer it would be kind to put her to sleep. But if it is EC and she has the chance to recover, I’m worried about doing the wrong thing.

 

[Shimmer]

Have any other tests been done? Eg full blood profile, xrays? Any other drugs, eg antibiotics?

I would want some more answers from a rabbit savvy vet before considering PTS. There may be one closer than the specialist you have been recommended. Check on the RWAF list and ask on here if you put your general area - someone may be able to suggest a suitable vet.

I hope you get some answers and can then make an informed decision about her future.

 

[LionheadBells]

Have any other tests been done? Eg full blood profile, xrays? Any other drugs, eg antibiotics?

I would want some more answers from a rabbit savvy vet before considering PTS. There may be one closer than the specialist you have been recommended. Check on the RWAF list and ask on here if you put your general area - someone may be able to suggest a suitable vet.

I hope you get some answers and can then make an informed decision about her future.

Thank you so much for your reply! They didn’t do any investigations whatsoever other than a physical examination on both occasions. I requested antibiotics/panacur in case but they said it was not indicated (not sure how they know this my moving her leg about a bit). I sourced the panacur from an online vet retailer myself as I just don’t know why you wouldn’t treat her for it anyway. Their logic was she doesn’t have EC because there’s no head tilt.

I live in north Lancashire so if anyone can recommend a rabbit savvy vet relatively nearby then it would be appreciated. I’m just worried about taking her any long distances as she finds travelling extremely stressful. I don’t want her to keep suffering stasis on top of all of this.

It’s a real battle and i don’t think I’ll adopt more rabbits while I live in this area as I don’t think it’s fair with the general lack of rabbit specialist care/knowledge.

Miraculously, she seems to have picked up a little bit over night. Holding her body in a more aligned position, oinking for food and attention and is a tiny bit more mobile. It’s day 25 of panacur, so I wonder if it’s finally doing its thing. While she is like this, she’s too good to PTS and seems to have regained her will to live. Hopefully she’s turning a corner now but we will progress with a guarded approach.

Thanks again for your reply.

 

[Shimmer]

The RWAF site only lists vets in Chorley and Colne, which might be a bit out of the way?

Recommended Rabbit-Friendly Vets

Find recommended rabbit-friendly vets near you. Explore our directory for expert care and support for your furry friend. Ensure the best healthcare for your rabbit

rabbitwelfare.co.uk

Maybe start new thread with the title along the lines of 'Vet recommendation needed for North Lancashire'? Some people may not spot it in this thread.

 

[FireRose]

Hey,
I am sorry to read you have a poorly bunny at home it is never easy.

I personally would seek the opinion of a rabbit savvy vet, their knowledge could be invaluable, I am surprised your current vet haven’t run more tests/blood work though to actually find out what is going on as it could be anything and she maybe receiving something she doesn’t need or vice versa not getting something she does.

I haven’t had personal dealings with EC, however there are lots of posts/information that it can and does get worse/look worse before it gets better.

 

[LionheadBells]

Hii,

Yes, I’m trying to find one that will do a video/telephone consultation with me initially as I think a trip to the vets might finish her off at this point. But I agree that we need a specialist opinion.

Our vets have frustrated me quite a lot as they were supposed to be the most “rabbit savvy” vets in the area which is why I picked them in the first instance.

I think she is finally and slowly starting to turn a corner (fingers crossed), which would lead me to believe she has got E Cuniculi and is responding to panacur, rather than a progressive neurological pathology/tumor which would continue to worsen.

Thank you for your reply .

 

[BunnySeasons]

Hi LionheadBells!

How's your little one doing? I hope everything is well and she started hopping around again with a healthy leg.

I'm more or less on the same boat as you were at the moment. My little Yuki is not presenting a head tilt, but all four limbs are affected and she looks like a frog on the ground the way she positions herself. All this started to happen exactly one week after a dental procedure due to some spurs, and consequently damage to the inside of her cheek and tongue, as well as one dosage of opioid the night before intervention because she was in too much pain so she clearly had undergone stress. I don't know whether it's EC or floppy rabbit syndrom.

She does seem to have some sort of strength though, not completely paralysed. She started on Panacur on the 9th of March so based on every one else's posts, I suppose I need to be patient and give it some time but just like you, I don't really have a proper rabbit-savvy vet nearby even though they advertised themselves as treating bunnies...

My Yuki is eating everything (except hay) and drinking from a syringe only, but I think that is more to do with the fact that she can't hold herself up properly due to her limbs, there is definitely some neck strength though.

 

[LionheadBells]

Hi Bunny Seasons,

Sadly we had to get Bella but to sleep on 24.02.26 as she continued to deteriorate (although not in a linear way and we saw some improvement with antibiotics - Enrofloxacin - as we suspected she had an ear infection). Her posture improved but she didn’t regain function in her leg. She then became incontinent and we had to wash her bottom and leg as she was getting urine scald and her respiratory function deteriorated too.

Poor little Yuki. This sounds terrible. I think she sounds as though she is presenting differently to Bella as Bella’s motor symptoms were typically isolated to her right back leg. It would not surprise me if Bella had a cancer that was impacting on her central nervous system as panacur did not seem to help. I think the ear infection was secondary to this, or was just that bad that it eventually killed her. I do not think it is the same for Yuki!

Yuki’s situation sounds like this has been brought on by a stressful event like you say so I have hope for her! I don’t know a great deal about floppy bunny syndrome but could be due to electrolyte imbalance if she’s not eating or drinking. It is also worth thinking about whether this is due to other post-op complications e.g. has she developed an infection or abscess? Or possibly the spurs were a result of her not eating enough hay due to a pre-existing dental root issue which is less obvious? It may be worth taking to her to the vet again to check her ears/mouth/throat and prescribe her some antibiotics if they didn’t give her any after surgery. Or possibly IV fluids to replenish electrolytes. It is so frustrating that so many vets know so little about rabbits. I felt that I was just guiding the vet after being forced to become a rabbit expert myself and using the vet for prescriptions only! But this took lots of research and multiple visits…. Also I ended up having to insist, as they were often quite dismissive and “comfort care” focused. I do wonder if I had “insisted” earlier on whether Bella would still be here.

Great that you’ve started her on panacur quickly as a precaution. I did loads of research on Panacur and it can take a long time if it is e Cuniculi, even after you finish her course. I’m assuming you will keep her on it for 28 days? I had to feed Bella critical care for the duration as she was too tired to eat enough hay to get her calories, but was still eating hay when she felt up to it.

Is Yuki on any anti-inflammatory meds such as metacam? It sounds like eating and drinking remains painful for her if she is being selective.

It’s so stressful having poorly bunnies isn’t it. So sorry for the essay.

In summary, if I were you I would:
1) Take her to the vets for IV fluids and/or antibiotics + metacam/pain relief
2) Make up wet critical care and feed this to her as per instructions as it’s the next best thing to ensure her nutritional needs are met and you are protecting her from stasis
3) Check how much fluid she should be drinking in line with her weight as she may be dehydrated
4) Try herby greens such as parsley/coriander as they can help with nausea
5) Check if she response to sensation/touch in her weak legs as this will help to establish if this is a motor problem only, or sensory too.

You are probably already doing these but worth mentioning in case.

Keep me posted with how you get on.

 

[BunnySeasons]

Hi Bunny Seasons,

Sadly we had to get Bella but to sleep on 24.02.26 as she continued to deteriorate (although not in a linear way and we saw some improvement with antibiotics - Enrofloxacin - as we suspected she had an ear infection). Her posture improved but she didn’t regain function in her leg. She then became incontinent and we had to wash her bottom and leg as she was getting urine scald and her respiratory function deteriorated too.

Poor little Yuki. This sounds terrible. I think she sounds as though she is presenting differently to Bella as Bella’s motor symptoms were typically isolated to her right back leg. It would not surprise me if Bella had a cancer that was impacting on her central nervous system as panacur did not seem to help. I think the ear infection was secondary to this, or was just that bad that it eventually killed her. I do not think it is the same for Yuki!

Yuki’s situation sounds like this has been brought on by a stressful event like you say so I have hope for her! I don’t know a great deal about floppy bunny syndrome but could be due to electrolyte imbalance if she’s not eating or drinking. It is also worth thinking about whether this is due to other post-op complications e.g. has she developed an infection or abscess? Or possibly the spurs were a result of her not eating enough hay due to a pre-existing dental root issue which is less obvious? It may be worth taking to her to the vet again to check her ears/mouth/throat and prescribe her some antibiotics if they didn’t give her any after surgery. Or possibly IV fluids to replenish electrolytes. It is so frustrating that so many vets know so little about rabbits. I felt that I was just guiding the vet after being forced to become a rabbit expert myself and using the vet for prescriptions only! But this took lots of research and multiple visits…. Also I ended up having to insist, as they were often quite dismissive and “comfort care” focused. I do wonder if I had “insisted” earlier on whether Bella would still be here.

Great that you’ve started her on panacur quickly as a precaution. I did loads of research on Panacur and it can take a long time if it is e Cuniculi, even after you finish her course. I’m assuming you will keep her on it for 28 days? I had to feed Bella critical care for the duration as she was too tired to eat enough hay to get her calories, but was still eating hay when she felt up to it.

Is Yuki on any anti-inflammatory meds such as metacam? It sounds like eating and drinking remains painful for her if she is being selective.

It’s so stressful having poorly bunnies isn’t it. So sorry for the essay.

In summary, if I were you I would:
1) Take her to the vets for IV fluids and/or antibiotics + metacam/pain relief
2) Make up wet critical care and feed this to her as per instructions as it’s the next best thing to ensure her nutritional needs are met and you are protecting her from stasis
3) Check how much fluid she should be drinking in line with her weight as she may be dehydrated
4) Try herby greens such as parsley/coriander as they can help with nausea
5) Check if she response to sensation/touch in her weak legs as this will help to establish if this is a motor problem only, or sensory too.

You are probably already doing these but worth mentioning in case.

Keep me posted with how you get on.

Gosh, I'm so sorry to hear Bella didn't make it. It's clear that you did everything you could. Rabbits are such a fickle animal, and having to let go of them is double the heartbreak because of how silent their love is, but so loud as well. Only rabbit owners can understand.

Thank you for the tips. And yes, I'm pretty much doing all of it already. She is on metacam twice a day. And since she is eating and passing poop her GI is working fine. It's just that her poop is a bit too dark but it's sort of expected since she isn't eating hay. Giving her critical care is a losing war on my end though, it ends up everywhere except her mouth. She learned how to spit it out... The only reason I think she isn't eating hay is because of the position she is. She looks like a frog that has been ran over by a car, all splayed out so the only way she can eat is by holding her head up. She is strong enough to do so, but eating hay is clearly very different than eating softened pellets, fresh grass or veggies/herbs since it requires a different technique.

She definitely has feeling on her legs. She starts licking the floor when I scratch that spot that she likes on her thigh; it's always been her sign that she is enjoying a specific area. Tere are some tremors and tries to pull the legs away as well when I make her do some physiotherapy to get the muscles moving.

I'm was planning on calling the vet tomorrow to talk about IV fluids and such but she is drinking water with some help. Somewhere between 3-8mls every 2 hours or so. Luckily I'm 24/7 at home and can keep an eye on her constantly.

I'll keep being patient in the meantime, although it was never once of my virtues ...

 

[LionheadBells]

Oh gosh. It’s so hard isn’t it. You sound like you’re a perfect bunny parent and are doing everything in your control.

Losing a bunny is honestly the most painful experience isn’t it. It’s another level. I still get up in the morning and walk into her room making up weird songs about her and forget she’s not there.

I’m hoping Yuki turns a corner. I don’t think you can do much more than you already are other than pestering the vets. It’s a good sign she’s still willing to eat and drink. Like you say, it’s more that she can’t rather than won’t.

If you haven’t tried dandelion roots yet, could be worth a go to help keep her teeth short when she’s not managing hay. Keeping all fingers and toes crossed for you both.

 

[Cuthbert&Dillon]

So very sorry to hear about Bella, you tried so hard for her.
Hope Yuki continues to rally.