In need of some help - Could this be Congestive heart failure related?

[Mr. Bun Bun]

Hello everyone,

I need some help as I'm completely unsure what is going on with my little boy who is about 9 years old.

About a week and a half ago my little guy had a strange episode or fit that lasted about 5 minutes.

During this episode he seemed panicked and disorientated while his posture changed to being almost completely on the floor, breathing rapidly with his eyes wide open and a bit bulging out. (I'm including a link to a video below as it unfortunately happened again and this time I recorded it).

At the time I assumed he was just choking as he had eaten just before it happened.

After trying to help him and recovering from the stress of the episode, he was quite normal for about 2 days and then his eating started to change.

So I took him to the vet on Friday as he was no longer eating his pellets, the vet did a regular physical and found nothing and just concluded that he was experiencing stress-induced gi stasis.

Then we started treatment (critical care and a bunch of motility meds as well as his metacam which he is on anyway for his arthritis) and then he got a bit better until last night when he had another one of the same episodes and this time he did not eat or drink immediately before it.

I recorded it this time and it can be viewed via the following unlisted YouTube link:

It took him quite a while to calm down after the episode and of course he stopped eating until about noon today.

So far he is doing quite well, pretty much the same as yesterday before he had the episode.

So yeah, I was wondering if any of you have seen anything like this before or have any idea what it could be?

I have already booked an appointment with the vet for tomorrow as I am especially worried that this might be congestive heart failure related. Tomorrow at the vet, we will hopefully do an x-ray to find out more on how things look on his inside.

However, I have had mixed experiences with vets where I live. So any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.

I've already spent a lot of time on Medirabbit and some other online resources researching what it could be and how things like congestive heart failure are diagnosed and treated.

But again, if any of you have any ideas or experiences with this sort of thing, any insight would be greatly appreciated so that I can go to the vet tomorrow well informed and ask all the necessary questions to establish what is going on.

Thank you all in advance for taking the time to read my post and any of your help.

One last possible thing that might be relevant to this case is that on Friday when I took him to the vet he was much more stressed than usual. Also after I got home with him and he had calmed down, he got up out of nowhere and seemed a bit panicked and disoriented with a fast heartbeat. At the time I thought this was probably due to the pain from the gas in his tummy as it was different from the other episode because he was still walking normally and his eyes were not bulging or wide open.

 

[InspectorMorse]

To me it looks like an episode of acute pain from somewhere.

Your typed description of the symptoms sounded more neurological, but the video does not look like a ‘fit’ but a response to a sudden onset severe pain.

Does he make any audible sounds when in an ‘episode’?

What is his poo output like?

When not having an ‘episode’ does he ever appear to be unsteady on his feet?

He isn’t showing classic symptoms of CHF.

 

[bunny momma]

I agree with IM's post that he seems to be having acute pain. It could be from the gi stasis the vet diagnosed, though it is possible his gi stasis was secondary to another condition because a bunny in pain will stop eating which quickly results in stasis.
An X ray will show if he has any bladder or kidney stones. It and a glucose test can help diagnose any blockage if he is not producing normal poo.
You say he is always on Medicam for his arthritis, yet I wonder if the dose is sufficient for his current condition.
Sending positive vibes for your boy.

 

[Mr. Bun Bun]

Your typed description of the symptoms sounded more neurological, but the video does not look like a ‘fit’ but a response to a sudden onset severe pain.

Does he make any audible sounds when in an ‘episode’?

What is his poo output like?

When not having an ‘episode’ does he ever appear to be unsteady on his feet?

He isn’t showing classic symptoms of CHF.

Thank you for taking the time and your response. It is much appreciated.

It is indeed very confusing.

During the episode his breathing was fast and there was a bit of a wheezing sound, but I wouldn’t describe the sound as anything out of the ordinary considering how fast he was breathing.

His poo is pretty responsive to how much he eats. At one point they were very small and a bit deformed, but now as his eating is picking up again they are getting bigger again.

And no, the little troublemaker is otherwise very steady on his feet.

I really do hope it’s nothing serious such as CHF. Perhaps it is just some strange response to severe gas pain. Perhaps already during the first episode around a week ago gas was building up in his system?

Also something what I did notice is that he has been pretty dehydrated and I began giving water through a syringe which has improved his appetite and mood.

Otherwise, I am just completely confused and really worried about him

 

[Mr. Bun Bun]

I agree with IM's post that he seems to be having acute pain. It could be from the gi stasis the vet diagnosed, though it is possible his gi stasis was secondary to another condition because a bunny in pain will stop eating which quickly results in stasis.
An X ray will show if he has any bladder or kidney stones. It and a glucose test can help diagnose any blockage if he is not producing normal poo.
You say he is always on Medicam for his arthritis, yet I wonder if the dose is sufficient for his current condition.
Sending positive vibes for your boy.

Thank you as well for taking the time and responding. It is much appreciated.

I suppose it is indeed very possible that the episodes might be linked to some type of pain the gi stasis has been causing him.

However, when he had the first episode, he was still eating normally, but perhaps gi stasis was already brewing inside of them at the time.

Interestingly enough during the two days following the first episode he began eating hay quite aggressively more than usual. Perhaps this was already an attempt on his part to improve his own digestion.

His poo is quite responsive to how much he’s eating. So it does not seem to be a blockage.

Really anxious to find out what the x-rays will reveal tomorrow. I truly do hope that is just something benign.

Thanks again and I will try to post an update on here once I was at the vet with him.

EDIT: Forgot to mention his metacam dosage. He is on 0.5 ml twice per day at a strength of 1.5 mg / ml.

 

[InspectorMorse]

If he’s truly dehydrated it could be due to a renal problem. This could include the possibility of pyelonephritis which can cause severe pain. Or he could have bladder/ renal problems related to hypercalcemia.Severe pain would occur if a urolith (stone) was being passed or worse still had caused and obstruction in his urinary tract.This would cause extreme pain. Gut stasis can be a secondary symptom due to severe pain from another condition

Has his urine output been normal ? Any sign of straining to wee ? Any history of ‘bladder sludge’ ?

 

[Mr. Bun Bun]

If he’s truly dehydrated it could be due to a renal problem. This could include the possibility of pyelonephritis which can cause severe pain. Or he could have bladder/ renal problems related to hypercalcemia.Severe pain would occur if a urolith (stone) was being passed or worse still had caused and obstruction in his urinary tract.This would cause extreme pain. Gut stasis can be a secondary symptom due to severe pain from another condition

Has his urine output been normal ? Any sign of straining to wee ? Any history of ‘bladder sludge’ ?

Thanks again for the response!

It could indeed be a renal problem!

I was at the vet today for the x-rays and even though I will hear back tomorrow or the day after from her with the proper results she did mention she saw something in the bladder, but wasn’t 100% certain yet.

However, I am almost certain he doesn’t excrete sludge as I check his urine regularly and him sometimes peeing in one of his water bowls makes it easy for me to see there is no sludge. One such instance just occurred less than 2 weeks ago.

As for stones it could be possible I suppose, but I am at a loss why he keeps doing really good for a day or two and then gets worse again. I would think if he had a big stone he would constantly feel terrible or?

When it comes to straining his behaviour seems normal. He does always make a small sound of relief when he pees, but he has been doing that basically forever. So, I don’t know :/

I am just so confused and I really don’t want to risk his life with a procedure if that isn’t really the issue.

I will up his water intake to combat his dehydration (which the gi stasis could be responsible for as he always drinks less during such gi stasis) and see how he copes with peeing now when he essentially is forced to do so.

I will also definitely get a second opinion if this vet only advocates for a procedure just to make sure.

Someone else on another forum actually made the point that apparently there are some types of strokes that resemble what can be seen in the video I shared, but I am not sure. The person also shared a resource from medirabbit which goes into more detail on it all but kinda hard to tell if this is what is really happening here.