Hello! I previously posted about Mr B when I found out he had EC. I was searching for herbs that could help. What I found was a whole directory of veterinary medical herbalist and also that as of this week some test results that have worried me. Mr B had his follow up full bloodwork and urine test this week and his IgM is now 1.320 ( it was 1.2560 at the end of January) and his IgG is still the same as when he was first tested at 1.2560. He has been on Panacur 6 whole weeks and I really don't know what to do except steam clean the house again. I have dutifully boil washed his blankets every day and used Angigene to clean his litter trays. Boiling water straight from the kettle rinses his dishes. I cannot bear to see him deteriotate again. His kidneys are already permanently damaged and he has lost weight but he has been eating and drinking ( coriander sprigs in water bottles make things tasty) and being his absolute sweetheart self and I don't want to see him get ill again. Are these results normal? Does this happen often? The vet has said not to put him back on Panacur and to test again in 2 months and essentially not to worry about high titres but that is easier said than done. Any advice appreciated on whether these things just happen post EC as to me those results look like an active infection.
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IgM higher than at start after finishing Panacur treatment for EC
- Thread starter Erin96
- Start date
Could it be inflammation? Lingering from the ec?
Igm and igg can also show inflammation AFAIK. They're not a perfect test for just showing if there's an infection, you need to be able to look at the results in context, which is hard to do here.
Are the rabbits symptoms improved? How is the rabbit in themselves?
He has improved and did from around a week after starting treatment although there has been the odd day when he was more subdued and has had to be encouraged to eat. At present his appetite is good but I am keeping an eye on him. I am hoping that it is the inflammation and that it is simply taking a while to return to normal. I just expected it to be at 0 and this has come as a bit of a shock and made me extra vigilent and extra concerned. The vet emailed bunnies full results for bloods and urine test to me today.
He was until the kidney damage was confirmed. NSAIDs were stopped as soon as those results came back in February due to impact they can have on the kidneys in his sitation. He continued on Panacur until 12th March on prescribed paracetamol syrup/calpol instead. He has not had tilt. He had reccurrant g.i stasis symtoms with weight loss which is why the vet advised the initial blood test confirming EC.
Yea I think that's true too, clementine always shows as having it but is symptom free
The vet has given impression that IgM should ideally be zero and to disenfect the house again and re-test in 2 months ( I already do this daily boil wash his blankets daily and use Anigene or dilute bleach on his litter trays. The only trace on flooring would be any residue from his paws. I really hope this isn't a reinfection.I am watching him closely for any indication of him behaving like he did at the end of January. Atm he is doing OK and very food orientated when it comes to Emeraid and greens. The first thing is started refusing when he fell ill was his evening nuggets, then his hay and he would not touch any supplemental feeds. So worried that he is still shedding since getting the results back.
Do you know how impacted the kidneys are, because paracetamol is harsh on them too in humans at least I know. Maybe not in rabbits. I was told kidneys and liver.
Do they have high IgM like my little fella? That would be reassuring if it is something that happens after a chronic infection.
I cant be sure it was that now, sorry she's not had a blood test in bout 5 years now. So I can't remember the specifics unfortunately. I would have the somewhere but they're probably in a moving box now honestly. But I remember my vet saying it would be likely to show up long term (although this could be another marker in the bloods)
If the vet thinks it should be zero though that would worry me more, can you discuss it with them further? Do you rate your vet? Are they experienced with this? These are all things I'd be considering if I was you.
Do they have high IgM like my little fella? That would be reassuring if it is something that happens after a chronic infection.
The Semintra has stopped the protein leak from the kidney damage and his full results do show ongoing kidney issues. Essentially they wont get better and can only be managed. The vet also prescribed Gabapentine if something stronger is needed but only for 5 days initially which I am geuessing is to gauge tolerance. I discussed the use of paracetamol and Gabapentine with the other exotics vet at the hospital and she explained that gabapentine has been studied in rabbits and is known to effect the kidneys in rabbits whereas paracetamol has never been assessed for rabbits but is believed to be less harsh. He is on a drop of Milk Thistle daily and kidney support supplements that I have bought.
The IgG can remain elevated long term. I have found one paper that states that IgM can remain elevated for a period post infection but it is only one. The vet I usually see is very experienced. He is an avian specialist but was one of RAWF featured vets a few years back for his work with rabbits. The other vet at the practice is a small mammals expert who teaches at the RVC in London. Mr B has been seen by both of them but the former is the one who has been treating him. He has stated that he has seen the rabbits suffering the results of toxicity from long term use of Panacur ( he was on it 6 weeks and the test was done one week to the day of him finishing the course). I will monitor him for the next week and stay in contact with the vet via email. I so wish the results had come back as negative.
Well that's positive then I think!
Yea good idea, I think watching and monitoring him for now makes a lot of sense, how he is in himself is the most important thing right now
I really hope he continues to recover
they appear to be contraindicated in rabbits due to them causing immunosuppression and stomach issues. neither vet i spoke with recommended any. perhaps they are a last resort when all else fails. it seem that bunnies, just like rats get used in labs all the time but very little drusg wise is cleared for usage for their health.
Thank you. Me too. I know I should trust the bunny doctor we see but I also know how busy that practice is and how exhausted that poor vet is atm. I am perhaps overthinking it all and should trust the experts but I cannot help but worry about bun. He's my little furry bestie. I am honestly so grateful for this community too talk things out with. xWell that's positive then I think!
Yea good idea, I think watching and monitoring him for now makes a lot of sense, how he is in himself is the most important thing right now
I really hope he continues to recover
Of course, always good to have a sounding board
I totally get it. It's also so easy to spiral and over think stuff. I do it all the time
I think you'll know if things are changing and be able to act. Your bun is very lucky to have such dedicated care
He is very loved. And yes, oh boy have I been spiralling over the last couple of months. Dedicated bunny forums are a blessing for overthinkers. We have many questions! I will do all I can to make sure my little buddy stays as well as he can be and will update everyone here on his progress.Of course, always good to have a sounding board
I totally get it. It's also so easy to spiral and over think stuff. I do it all the time
I think you'll know if things are changing and be able to act. Your bun is very lucky to have such dedicated care
