Bonding after a fight - can it work out :( ?

[treacletrim]

Hi everyone,

I posted the other day re: bonding new boy Conker (the Bonker...) to my girl Patsy. Sadly they have had a fight resulting in injuries, which has really knocked my confidence in the bond working and left me wondering what to do next. Some advice /stories from similar situations would help!

To surmise.......

Patsy is 3, she is a bigger girl who lacks confidence and is a bit stressy, but very loving when she trusts you. She has not been thriving since she lost her husbun in July. New boy Conker is 2, he is smaller than Patsy and VERY confident and friendly. He is also rather humpy despite being neutered 4 months ago. After swapping litter trays /blankets etc for 2 weeks, I started bonding them at the weekend using the fast track method in a small, neutral space. I had used this method with great success last year with Patsy & her now angel husbun Fred. Conker was somewhat relentless with his humping the first day and night. Patsy took it for so long then started getting very upset with it all. She started growling at him to no avail, and even whimpering when he came near, and didn't eat for hours. Conker didn't take any hints and carried on relentless, trying to hump her head quite a lot too (which I stopped of course). I decided to split them up as Conker had humped her pretty much continually for a full day and night and she was starting to show aggression, it felt like it might escalate into a serious fight and I felt she needed a rest from it. In the very short peaceful times in between relentless humping, Patsy had been showing signs of wanting to be with Conker, flopping down near him and ducking her head down for a groom on occasion so there have been positive signs.

Anyway the next day I decided to calm things down and have them living side by side, and go slowly with them. I managed a couple of short 30/40 minute dates between them over the next couple of days, in a larger space with me sat in with them, and a couple of boxes / tunnels as distractions / escapes. Aside from Conker getting frisky slightly in the middle of the first date he quickly stopped after Patsy pulled a tuft off fur out of his bum!), it felt much better and was very relaxed, with the buns eating hay side by side, and pottering about on their own then coming together occasionally. I felt going slow and gradually building on their time together was the way to go.

Sadly things have taken a big set back, after Conker (goodness knows how) escaped and got into Patsy's enclosure. A big fight ensued ending up in injuries.....both buns have bald patches but poor Conker ended up worse off with a couple of bites on his side and Patsy has bitten the end of his penis Needless to say I split the buns up and they are now back to living in their separate quarters, Patsy in the living room and Conker in the kitchen. Conker is receiving treatment and doing well touch wood. Patsy was visibly stressed by all this, so I have decided to give them a break for a couple of weeks for injuries to heal and Patsy to settle (Conker seems unphased by it all!).

My question is.....has anyone successfully bonded bunnies after such a fight? I know they have good memories and Patsy in particular will remember this. I don't want to throw in the towel if there is hope for them yet, but not sure how to progress or when to call it a day with them. I realise I was very lucky with Patsy and Fred last year, and know some bonds can take months, so I don't feel ready to quit yet.

My plan was to leave them a couple of weeks, then maybe try having them live side by side for a while, then introduce short dates again. I don't have the confidence to see the bond through to the end as I'm worried about them fighting again and am worried I'll pass my nervousness onto them. I have heard of someone fairly local who does bonding so was hoping to send them to her to finish the process I had wanted to avoid this as Patsy is a very stressed traveller, but would rather try this before calling it a day.

Has anyone else had similar experiences and ended up with a successful bond? Or once they've fought is it pretty much written off? We do have the option of returning Conker to the rescue if it doesn't work out, but we are getting very attached to him! It would be very hard for us to take him back months down the line but at least we would have tried everything, and I have to prioritise my girl.

Any stories of encouragement or straight talking would be most helpful!

Thanks x

 

[tonibun]

I think a break of 2 weeks sounds a good idea to let Conker heal etc. Then I think your best bet would be to let someone else do the bond. This would take your girl out of her territory where I imagine she would bond more readily with Conker. When they come home you would need to have their enclosure all ready so you wouldn't need to separate them.

 

[Babsie]

I think a break of 2 weeks sounds a good idea to let Conker heal etc. Then I think your best bet would be to let someone else do the bond. This would take your girl out of her territory where I imagine she would bond more readily with Conker. When they come home you would need to have their enclosure all ready so you wouldn't need to separate them.

Sounds good!

 

[bunny babe]

I think a break of 2 weeks sounds a good idea to let Conker heal etc. Then I think your best bet would be to let someone else do the bond. This would take your girl out of her territory where I imagine she would bond more readily with Conker. When they come home you would need to have their enclosure all ready so you wouldn't need to separate them.

Some good advice.

I went through a very difficult bond (took 4-5 months) with fighting. I did it very slow time (dating) and split them up as soon as I saw any tension. Once they were bonded the female (who was the feisty one) was like her husbun's shadow - she adored him. She was from a rescue so we were not sure on her background.

 

[treacletrim]

Hi everyone....

just a bit of an update, not as good as I'd hoped unfortunately as it's been quite a while, but I hope someone can offer some support / hope with my situation! bear with me, it's a long post!

After the fight between Conker and Patsy in November, they had a chill out for 2 weeks. The lady I had I mind to do the bonding was on holiday abroad for a while, so I decided to start the slow process again in the meantime. I moved them into our spare room and had them living side by side (with a gap) for 2 weeks, so they could get used to the sight / smell of each other again. They took it in turns to have free range time around the house, and I swapped them over in their enclosures every 2 days so they didn't become territorial over one space. I then removed the 'gap' so they could touch each other through the partition if they wanted. I kept a close eye on them and thankfully, they seemed fine and we even had grooming. I'll add Patsy has never groomed Conker (poor lad!) despite my encouragement, but Patsy regularly lowered her head to Conker and he groomed her through the bars most days. Whenever Patsy was free range she would often go a lie down next to where Conker was. All good signs!

I then decide to start trying them on short supervised dates as they seemed at ease with one another....I chose the bathroom as they rarely went in there, but I scrubbed it all with vinegar to neutralise it. I started with 30 minute dates and sat in with them in case I needed to intervene, and to encourage grooming between them (if they put their heads together I'd rub them as praise, and it would often encourage Conker to groom Patsy). This went on for three weeks, with no issues, but no real progression either. Each date was the same....Patsy sitting in the corner of the bathroom refusing to move and looking a bit stressed. Conker sitting about 2 feet away eating hay and popping over every now and again, where she'd demand grooming, and Conker would oblige for a few minutes. I have been really pleased with Conker, in that he hasn't been a pest / humping like before, he has been very calm. As the session went on Patsy would gradually relax and 'loaf' down, and start grooming herself, but never really moved. No fighting or humping occurred, but if Conker stopped grooming her Pats she would often nip him on the bum when he turned his back on her. I made sure to end each session positively, when the bunnies had their heads together I gave them a treat and head rub.

The only thing I changed was after 2 weeks, I could sense Patsy getting a bit stroppy and nipping more as Conker seemed more interested in me rather than her at times. He is very people orientated and would often climb on me and lick me a lot. So I stepped out of the enclosure so he could focus on her!

It was getting to the point where I felt no progression was being made still, and maybe I needed to change tactics as Patsy wasn't really participating in the dates. Although I was pleased there was no fighting of course.

Anyway, sadly last night the two had another fight. (Goodness knows how but....) Patsy managed to shove one of her panels open while Conker was free range, and Conker wandered in to her pen.......I only caught the end so didn't see what had happened, but there was lots of fur everywhere Conker has a small surface wound on his side, although otherwise is ok. Both bunnies are sulking a bit but eating / drinking / pooing fine.

I'm understandably really upset after the progress that had been made. I don't know whether I'm in denial about this working out between them, or whether it just won't work. Has anyone any advice / tips / similar experiences? I know nipping and fur pulling is part of the course but the fact that Conker has had bites is worrying me

Obviously I won't do any more dates, especially not until Conker's wound has healed as I know Pats will be able to pick up on it.

Despite the second fight, Conker has been grooming Patsy through the bars again this morning, so I'd like to think there is still hope. Patsy does seem very fed up with the situation though after all this time. She is used to having full fee range so even though they have half a room each I know she'd used to more space. I just didn't think it would take this long :/

I'm exhausted and have lost confidence, so I think its time to send them away to be bonded. I'd been avoiding it as Patsy is a very stressed traveller and gets stressed in new places, but now I feel like I daren't carry on myself and will even travel a fair distance for someone else to do it if there's a chance of success. I have told myself its worth it if they could have 7 or more years together.

I'm also contemplating the chance of it just not working, and what to do then. To be honest we can't bear the idea of taking Conker back to the rescue as we are very attached to him, but I'm not sure if its fair / a good enough life for them to live separately

Any tips / advice / common stories / straight talking that can be offered would be very welcome.

xxxxxx

 

[daphnephoebe]

I had similar bonding my two girls. I'd get so far with dates, and suddenly they started fighting.
Turns out, me separating them was causing the issues. I eventually left them together 24/7 and a bond was formed. Phoebe got a surface wound to her shoulder, but that is all. They bonded and have been together happily over a year.

When you came into see them, were they still fighting, or had it all stopped when you found them with fur around the room?

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[treacletrim]

Thank you. I did try the intensive approach back in November but it didn't work out......despite being neutered 4 months before, Conker was very hormonal and humped Patsy constantly. It escalated and she got aggressive. He has calmed down a lot now so may be worth another go.....but I daren't try again. Think a fresh location & expert may be better. No I didn't see any fighting. I was in the next room and heard a commotion and ran in. They were both sat there with fur everywhere. I don't know what instigated it

 

[daphnephoebe]

Thank you. I did try the intensive approach back in November but it didn't work out......despite being neutered 4 months before, Conker was very hormonal and humped Patsy constantly. It escalated and she got aggressive. He has calmed down a lot now so may be worth another go.....but I daren't try again. Think a fresh location & expert may be better. No I didn't see any fighting. I was in the next room and heard a commotion and ran in. They were both sat there with fur everywhere. I don't know what instigated it

Just seems weird. If they were relatively okay and weren't continuing to fight I'd have been tempted to have left them together and just monitor closely.

Good luck with the professional bonding x

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[Scrappy's Little Helper]

I'm really sorry Patsy and Conker have been falling out

My buns fell out after they had been bonded for about three months. I have no idea what started it, I was just woken up early one morning by an almighty commotion and they were rolling around the floor. I had to separate them as every time they got near each other it kicked off. After waiting a few days I put them together in a neutral space (the kitchen washed down with vinegar) and tried rebonding them again. I have to admit the first night was horrific. They kept going at each other and I had to keep stepping in to separate them. Eventually at some point the next day the calmed down. I kept them in the kitchen for a couple of days and as no more fights broke out after a couple of days I gradually extended their space out. They have been fine ever since and are very close again.

I have to be honest, my nerves were absolutely shot to pieces doing that re-bond and I really thought at one point I would never get them back together again. But I just wanted to share that story to give you a bit of hope that bunnies can be rebonded after a fight.

I really hope it all goes well when they go off to be re-bonded. xx