4 year old rabbit with bladder stone: op or no op ?

[Griffski]

Hi - my 4 year old male rabbit, Ronin, has been diagnosed with largeish bladder stone and I need to make decision re operation or no action (other than palliative). I'd really appreciate some insight from anyone who has had experience of this with their bunny. He's young so I'm tending towards putting him through the op but am wondering if it's fair if he's predisposed to stone development and it won't buy him much time. His diet is already fairly restrictive in terms of calcium so i'm not sure there's much that could be changed in that respect post op. He is bright enough in himself for now and hopefully meds will help. Op would be next week. I'll do some research on it in vet literature but would welcome any insight from the community. thanks ..

 

[bunny momma]

I had bladder stones removed during ops from three different bunnies and none needed a second surgery. Amigo got a jack stone with a bladder infection at age 6 and he lived to age 14+ and Chinnie got op at age 6 and lived to age 13. You can make dietary changes and encourage more fluids to minimize recurrence.

 

[tonibun]

I xxam sorry you have this problem. I have never experienced it with Rabbits, only a Guinea Pig who got a stone stuck in his penis. They operated on him but he passed away during the night at the Vets. I have a feeling that if I were you I would go for the operation and you have had quite a lot of reassurance from bunny momma.

 

[Shimmer]

Bladder stones can cause a lot of issues if left, so I would be inclined to remove them surgically if that’s the only option, especially with a boy (narrower tube to pass through & easier to block).

I know there are other treatments for people, including ultrasound blasting them to smaller pieces. Don’t know if any are appropriate for rabbits, though. They still have to pass the bits out, and that would be problematic.

I would go for a hay and forage diet afterwards, with plenty of water intake (eg in grass or low calcium greens). Also encourage him to move about more so he empties his bladder more fully. Wild rabbits don’t get bladder sludge as they are always on the move so urine doesn’t stick around or have the chance to accumulate sludge / form stones.

 

[Griffski]

I had bladder stones removed during ops from three different bunnies and none needed a second surgery. Amigo got a jack stone with a bladder infection at age 6 and he lived to age 14+ and Chinnie got op at age 6 and lived to age 13. You can make dietary changes and encourage more fluids to minimize recurrence.

Thanks bunny momma - that's encouraging news. He's booked in for procedure tomorrow. Not really sure how i can change his diet post op as they don't get high calcium foods on regular basis - they get science selective, timothy hay, herbs (mainly dill and coriander but not in huge amounts and zero for past 3 months as his wingbun has stasis episodes every few months and i was testing more restricted diet (it didn't stop the episodes ) ), protrexin, 1-2 nibblots a day and free feed on grass (and other plants in lawn) when they have access to run or garden.

 

[Griffski]

I xxam sorry you have this problem. I have never experienced it with Rabbits, only a Guinea Pig who got a stone stuck in his penis. They operated on him but he passed away during the night at the Vets. I have a feeling that if I were you I would go for the operation and you have had quite a lot of reassurance from bunny momma.

Hi Tonibun - thanks for your response. I'm so sorry you had that experience. I must admit I am worried re op and recovery period but yes, I do feel best course of action is to go forward with op and he's booked in for tomorrow.

 

[Griffski]

Bladder stones can cause a lot of issues if left, so I would be inclined to remove them surgically if that’s the only option, especially with a boy (narrower tube to pass through & easier to block).

I know there are other treatments for people, including ultrasound blasting them to smaller pieces. Don’t know if any are appropriate for rabbits, though. They still have to pass the bits out, and that would be problematic.

I would go for a hay and forage diet afterwards, with plenty of water intake (eg in grass or low calcium greens). Also encourage him to move about more so he empties his bladder more fully. Wild rabbits don’t get bladder sludge as they are always on the move so urine doesn’t stick around or have the chance to accumulate sludge / form stones.

Thanks for the advice Shimmer - much appreciated. By forage do you mean the bags of dried forage that can be bought for bunnies or do i need to be super careful re constituents ? He's booked in for op tomorrow.

 

[Shimmer]

Hope all goes well with the op.

Fresh forage would be better than dry as it has a higher water content, but that gets awkward in winter anyway. Bramble leaves are available all year if you look around.

This is a useful link:

Calcium and rabbit food — Frances Harcourt-Brown

www.harcourt-brown.co.uk

 

[joey&boo]

I'd go for the op too. I hope it goes well for him

 

[Cinnabun14]

Sending vibes for Ronin's op tomorrow

 

[Omi]

Thinking of you and Ronin tomorrow and hoping that all goes well.

 

[bunny momma]

Thanks bunny momma - that's encouraging news. He's booked in for procedure tomorrow. Not really sure how i can change his diet post op as they don't get high calcium foods on regular basis - they get science selective, timothy hay, herbs (mainly dill and coriander but not in huge amounts and zero for past 3 months as his wingbun has stasis episodes every few months and i was testing more restricted diet (it didn't stop the episodes ) ), protrexin, 1-2 nibblots a day and free feed on grass (and other plants in lawn) when they have access to run or garden.

Fresh greens/grass will help him get enough fluids. You can feed the herbs or veggies after a quick rinse so they have extra water on them too.
I am sorry to hear his wingbun is stasis prone. Stasis is often, not always, a secondary issue. Several RU members, including myself, have or had stasis prone bunnies.
Sending vibes that your boy will recover well and live a long stone free life.

 

[Griffski]

Thanks everyone for the best wishes and advice - palpation this morning revealed changes in the mass and evidence is tending towards sludge rather than stone (it became a little equivocal after my first post) so more conservative treatment being tried first (today). Sigh of relief re no op needed for now - hopefully he will get some relief but suspect further treatment may be needed. I will put some of the advice from you all in play ASAP - getting some low calcium veg rinsed generously with water sounds a good start in case poor water intake is a factor.

 

[Shimmer]

I'm assuming he's going to have a bladder wash out.

Increasing fluid intake / reducing dry food (especially pellets - but doesn't include hay) and getting him to move around more in a bigger space will help to keep the bladder clear and stop calcium sedimentation.

 

[bunny momma]

If the issue is poor water intake, you may want to ask about giving some subcutaneous (sub q) fluids at home. Also, vets can sometimes express the bladder to allow some sludge to pass. I had a disabled bunny who got sludge, hence the recommendation of Shimmer to increase exercise.
Sending vibes your boy can pass the sludge and be more comfortable.

 

[Griffski]

I'm assuming he's going to have a bladder wash out.

Increasing fluid intake / reducing dry food (especially pellets - but doesn't include hay) and getting him to move around more in a bigger space will help to keep the bladder clear and stop calcium sedimentation.

 

[Griffski]

Am happy to report lots of sludge passed yesterday have put a few dietary changes in place and I’ll ask re sub q (thanks bunny momma). He’s on meds for the next week and hates that (and me ) making it difficult to assess him (he is being avoidant ) but he seems bright enough and is eating grass. Re exercise - they have plenty of outdoor space to run around but some days don’t come out of the hutch at all (weather dependent) - any tips ?

 

[Omi]

Am happy to report lots of sludge passed yesterday have put a few dietary changes in place and I’ll ask re sub q (thanks bunny momma). He’s on meds for the next week and hates that (and me ) making it difficult to assess him (he is being avoidant ) but he seems bright enough and is eating grass. Re exercise - they have plenty of outdoor space to run around but some days don’t come out of the hutch at all (weather dependent) - any tips ?

I'm pleased that there is no op needed at the moment.

We encourage exercise by putting food in different areas so they have to move to find it.

 

[Tiggertime]

Hi - my 4 year old male rabbit, Ronin, has been diagnosed with largeish bladder stone and I need to make decision re operation or no action (other than palliative). I'd really appreciate some insight from anyone who has had experience of this with their bunny. He's young so I'm tending towards putting him through the op but am wondering if it's fair if he's predisposed to stone development and it won't buy him much time. His diet is already fairly restrictive in terms of calcium so i'm not sure there's much that could be changed in that respect post op. He is bright enough in himself for now and hopefully meds will help. Op would be next week. I'll do some research on it in vet literature but would welcome any insight from the community. thanks ..

We've had loads of issues with Tigger's bladder. He's had numerous scans - CT, x-ray etc... clear, but sludgy.

Our vet finally felt what she thought was a stone one week. We took him for the op the next week, and it wasn't there. I didn't say ahead of the appointment but I had a feeling that would happen. Instead she flushed his bladder and he passed a lot of sediment and sludge etc.

He's had a couple of flushes since, but this is just an ongoing thing with him, and we manage as best we can with pain relief.

 

[bunny momma]

Am happy to report lots of sludge passed yesterday have put a few dietary changes in place and I’ll ask re sub q (thanks bunny momma). He’s on meds for the next week and hates that (and me ) making it difficult to assess him (he is being avoidant ) but he seems bright enough and is eating grass. Re exercise - they have plenty of outdoor space to run around but some days don’t come out of the hutch at all (weather dependent) - any tips ?

It is good that he is able to pass lots of the sludge and he is bright in himself. Did vet check him for any urinary infection which can occur with bladder sludge?
I am sending vibes he will continue to pass any sludge and be comfortable.