dental abscesses, updated... dental number 2 on Friday :(

Elsa's awake after her dental so that's good news, vet found lots of spikes plus an ulcer on her tongue, poor thing, no wonder she was dribbly and uncomfortable looking recently.

Bad news is the x rays show evidence of abscesses. Plan is to go back at 5.30 to pick Elsa up and discuss, but the vet has said the action will be just metacam and baytril.

Just wondering if any of you experienced owners could give a little advice before I see the vet in an hour, any questions I need to ask?

Thank you

Sorry I don't have any advice but didn't want to not reply. I hope your chat with the vet went well and that Elsa is feeling much better soon

:wave: Just a little tip about nursing care.
Tooth root abcesses are very painful. It's particularly painful for a bunny to chew.
Pain relief with a regular non steroidal anti inflammatory is incredibly important, to keep the bunny's immune system working well.
Also doing everything possible to avoid stressing her will be a great help to her immune system helping the antibiotics to fight the infection.

We think that adding crispy dried apple leaves/hawthorn leaves, helps your bun to eat the fiber she needs with less chew & less pain.

If you can use the "search facility" I advise you look up Beccimarie's threads about Casper & Poppy. For different reasons neither bunny could recover from their tooth abscesses so antibiotics were never given. It's an incredibly sad thread in the end but so heartwarming that both bunnies have survived infinately longer, & enjoyed a wonderful quality of life, than ever expected with this type of nursing care; also much to the surprise of the vet.

Put the nursing care, & pain relief together with antibiotics & I think you'll see some good results.

Thank you for your advice.

This is where I come unstuck, I know that Elsa's diet in the long term hasn't been ideal (she is 8.5 and I have had her since I was 12 and I was uneducated on rabbit diets so she has existed on different types of pellets, fruit and veg but I never understood the massive importance of hay.) So I thought now would be the right time to start her eating more hay... but of course the idea is that hay takes a lot of chewing and this could be painful...

Thankfully she is on Metacam. She's has 2 injections so far and I will be administering it orally from tomorrow.

Where can I get apple/hawethorn leaves or do I pick and dry them myself?

I'll definitely look into Casper and Poppy's thread.

Thank you for your message also Katie, it means a lot that there's lovely people on this forum willing to give well wishes and advice

ElsasMummy said:

Thank you for your advice.

This is where I come unstuck, I know that Elsa's diet in the long term hasn't been ideal (she is 8.5 and I have had her since I was 12 and I was uneducated on rabbit diets so she has existed on different types of pellets, fruit and veg but I never understood the massive importance of hay.) So I thought now would be the right time to start her eating more hay... but of course the idea is that hay takes a lot of chewing and this could be painful...

Thankfully she is on Metacam. She's has 2 injections so far and I will be administering it orally from tomorrow.

Where can I get apple/hawethorn leaves or do I pick and dry them myself?

I'll definitely look into Casper and Poppy's thread.

Click to expand...

:wave: Hi Elsa'sMummy. Please don't blame yourself -& remember that everyone on here had to learn at one time. You've done well to get Elsa through to 8 1/2
I think it's well worth trying her on a good tastey hay - Burns do some nice ones & The Hay Company sends out samples to try her with.

Most of us gather our own hawthorn leaves only & dry them ourselves. It's the commonest hedge shrub round fields, & there's usually some in cities too. We need to avoid contamination by traffic fumes so a quiet country lane, or bridle way is ideal. I use gardeners clippers (seceteurs) to cut off this year's twigs back to the original shape of the hedge. Although technically not allowed, both councils & famers will be doing it mechanically soon & I've never been questioned although I've pruned back up to 1/2 mile of hedge for my own bunny.
Apple leaves are usually from friend or family gardens although I know plenty which have self seeded in hedges locally. Crab apple leaves are just as good. The apples are easy to see now.

You can buy them but it gets expensive especially with vets bills too.
There's a group of us who get leaves & wild plants from the hedgerows on thread. http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?p=4881566#post4881566 which is very long. If you aren't confident about what hawthorn looks like post a photo of what you think it is on there. We'll give tips about drying too. If you google "images" for Hawthorn you'll get lots of photos.

Sending lots of vibes for Elsa xx

I'm checking on Elsa this morning, might ring the vet soon. Her ears feels slightly cold, I did cover her hutch up and put a hot water bottle in in the night. She did a few normal poops as soon as I brought her home but I found her sat in a lot of soft poop this morning (she's normally v. clean.) Also I don't think she has eaten/drunk... I put hay/ pellets/ apple/ kale/ spring greens to tempt her and and she MAY have nibbled some kale.

Thank you for the hawthorn advice, I'll do that! I've already bought the hay experts taster pack and some excel timothy hay and so far she hasn't eaten any at all!

Just need to decide about the vets soon as I know it's important to get her eating again quick but I don't want to stress her!!

I'm waiting for a call back from the vets.

Her bum is caked in runny poo, no formed poo at all. She isn't eating on her own but has had a few mouthfuls of mashed up pellets and water with prebiotic powder from a spoon.

Is the lack of eating down to the sores on the tongue or the abscesses?

How big are the abscesses and whereabouts are they located?

I have 2 buns with osteomylitis (bone infection) of the mandible (lower jaw). If left without treatment they would get abscesses, but both are on quite high doses of antibiotics (0.4mls penicillin injected every other day, previously the same amount given every day until the infection was under control).

Sounds like your primary concern is to get Elsa eating again...If she has gone for some length of time without eating, you will need the following:

Gut motility agents such as ranitadine and metaclopramide
Pain relief
Fluids (Hartmanns) injected under the skin
Syringe feeding with critical care food

Let me know if you need any advice on syringe feeding...I have developed a recipe that my buns love.

Good luck.

I think the eating problem is because of the GA as before the dental she was eating.

Waiting for the vet to call back, she mentioned the metaclompramide and said to bring her in if she hadnt eaten by morning but because she's had a bit of food I'm waiting to see if I need to take her in. I have work at 4 as well

Her x ray showed that her teeth and roots arent in great shape at all. Abscesses are on the mandible, they can be felt a bit when u palpate the jawline and hard bumps. Also one of her upper roots was v long and the vert is surprised she doesn't have tear duct problems.

My poor Elsa I'm due to give her Baytril and Metacam later but just waiting on my phone call!

In some ways hard lumps are good news. When the infection is active you will usually get pockets of soft pus forming. This sort of dental disease is extremely common in rabbits, and can often be managed with the right treatment.

Sending lots of positive vibes x

Thank you, oh that sounds a bit more positive, there's certainly no softness or visible swelling.

The vet is hopefull that a long course of antibiotics will help but I know that this won't just be resolved.

I'm just hoping she can come through this post GA phase ok and perk up soon.

Thank you, oh that sounds a bit more positive, there's certainly no softness or visible swelling.

The vet is hopefull that a long course of antibiotics will help but I know that this won't just be resolved.

I'm just hoping she can come through this post GA phase ok and perk up soon.

Hiya, a few bits of advice.

First of all you'll get all sorts of weird poos with GA and antibiotics, so on their own I wouldn't worry about them just yet. Just get her eating well.

Can the abscess be removed with surgery, or is it inside the jaw itself? if it can I would get it removed, or as much of it as possible removed. And whether you can or not, I would switch to a stronger antibiotic. Grimlock had two abscesses in his jaws and we treated with depocillin. I was taught how to give him an injection at home every three days for eight weeks. And they cleared up completely. Can you ask your vet to consult with another vet about the use of depocillin if they haven't used it themselves? My vet had no idea what to do but did some research for us. She was happy to learn too because after Grim she saved two other rabbits from jaw abscesses, including my sister's rabbit. :wave:

Update on Elsa

Thanks all for advice.

Elsa had diarrhea after the GA.

Spoke to vet who suggested I just come in to have Elsa bathed and see about fluids etc. Opted to keep her at home, gave her a gentle wash with cotton wool as I didn't want to stress her further and applied fly guard to be safe. Plan to do a more thorough bum bath tomorrow (any advice would be helpful as I know it might be difficult!)

I'm going to carry on with the planned course of treatment at the minute. I struggle massively syringing meds despite advice as Elsa just won't have it. She ate her Metacam soaked into about 5 pellets this morning and she now has some Baytril pellets to eat. I'm going back to the vets in a week for a post dental check (my vet is on holiday so I may request to see her so could be up to 2 weeks away.)

The diarrhea has completely cleared up and her appetite is back (mainly for kale!!) She still looks slightly uncomfortable after eating and was a bit dribbly today but I'm hoping that's because the ulcer won't have healed yet (hopefully the pain is not from the abscesses )

Next mission now is to GET HER EATING HAY!! She has never eaten it and just has zero interest! She currently has about 10 baytril pellets in her bowl, topped with a tiny handful of each type of hay from the hay experts selection pack and then mixed in with grated apple which she normally loves. I'm going to cut down her pellets to just enough to put the meds on but the fact that she just has no interest at all in hay worries me!! Any advice for that!?

What a long post! In general I'm reasonably pleased about Elsa's progres, I know her prognosis isn't great but I'm going to do my best and keep a close eye on her!!

Elsa is brighter today than she has been in ages!!

Has been hopping about and munching all day! No hay but she's still loveing her pellets even with the meds on and lots of greens.

So pleased she's perked up!!

Check up on Thursday

If her teeth are really bad, she might not be able to eat hay.I've got quite a few non hay eaters and only one has any digestive issues (which I suspect isn't caused by the lack of hay eating because he has multiple health problems).

If she definitely won't eat hay, try feeding fiberous plants such as apple tree leaves or blackberry/raspberry leaves instead

I've tried hard to get her eating hay to try to prolong the time before she needs the inevitable next dental. But yes it seems that her teeth may be too uncomfortable for her to eat it.

I'm going to look at some of the foraging threads and start soon

Thank you

If it might be painful for her to eat, let her have pellets soaked in water. Excel seem to be the best that I've found as they keep their shape but go nice and soft. It's too painful for Grim to eat hay so I just let him have unlimited soggy pellets. He's kept his weight on and been doing really well considering.