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Do you worm your rabbits?
- Thread starter rachylou
- Start date
I don't. I use Panacur if I see evidence of worms- like pinworms, etc (and we used Droncit when we thought Summer had a tape worm), but I don't do any other worming.
I don't use it for EC because someone I know doing research in the US says its not effective, and the research for Fenbendazole says its only been proven effective in one small study where it was given when a rabbit was exposed and the rabbit didn't catch it.
Many rabbits carry EC completely symptom free (like pastuerella). The important thing is to have a strong immune systom, in my opinion only.
I don't use it for EC because someone I know doing research in the US says its not effective, and the research for Fenbendazole says its only been proven effective in one small study where it was given when a rabbit was exposed and the rabbit didn't catch it.
Many rabbits carry EC completely symptom free (like pastuerella). The important thing is to have a strong immune systom, in my opinion only.
Never.
Letichia
Alpha Buck
I put no, but i have 5 wormers panacur in the fridge. I keep meaning to do them and keep ordering them in. I did try worming shadow, but it was almost impossible. I'm going to try give it another go with them all. I haven't had anything that required worming diagnosed. All my bunnys have been in pretty good health generally.
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The Duchess
Wise Old Thumper
Agree with this (however I have wormed for some rabbits known to have repeated EC symptoms). The study carried out was on a very, very small sample of rabbits.
Phew, so glad I wasn't jumped on for saying no :lol:
I don't know the ins and outs but left hind leg paralysis, kidney issues/incontinence, something related to the eye and something in the eye. I don't know much to be honest- probably because I am comfortable in knowing the places where I personally would choose to look if I needed to.
Head tilt is not caused by EC. EC lowers the immune system and can make rabbits more prone to infections (such as ear infections).
I don't know the ins and outs but left hind leg paralysis, kidney issues/incontinence, something related to the eye and something in the eye. I don't know much to be honest- probably because I am comfortable in knowing the places where I personally would choose to look if I needed to.
Head tilt is not caused by EC. EC lowers the immune system and can make rabbits more prone to infections (such as ear infections).
Carrie14
Mama Doe
I didn't know this. I thought this was caused by the illness:shock: I have so much to learn...
I was very lucky to come across a forum where there is someone on there doing very current research with a vet training school in the US, so I have learnt a huge amount of uptodate info from him, as well as my own reading.
Bunny Buddy
Wise Old Thumper
I have in the past given Panacur 2 - 3 times a year but with all the stuff I've read recently I asked FHB for her opinion and she said it was her belief that every bunny would benefit from one course at least once in their lifetime but she didn't feel it was necessary otherwise unless they had active EC. I had asked particularly if I should give a one-off 28 days rather than 9 days 2 - 4 times a year.... So that's what I'll be sticking with unless I get a really good reason to do otherwise.
Is this research online, because I'd really like to read it? Are they using Lufenuron? I 100% agree about immune system health, but I don't understand why the bendazoles are effective in treating E.cuniculi in humans, but seemingly aren't at treating the same protozoa in rabbits.:?
Santa
Wise Old Thumper
There is only one scientific academic study on the use of fenbendazole in rabbits. It is
Suter, C.; Mueller-Doblies, U.; Hatt, J-M. & Deplazes, P. (2001) 'Prevention and treatment of Encephalitozoon cuniculi infection in rabbits with fenbendazole' in Veterinary Record, Vol 148:478-480.
It is two pages long. All it shows is that of 2 rabbits given fenbendazole at 20mg/kg for a week before they are infected with EC and for 3 weeks after infection, and 2 who were given the same but with fenbendazole only given for 2 more days after infection none were found to have EC when they were euthanased much later, compared to all 4 of the control group who developed high antibody titres to EC.
It suggests that 28 days might be more effective because of the life cycle - presumably where the suggestion of 28 days for active infections and 9 days for prevention comes in. It also cites a separate study of a further 16 rabbits with signs consistent with EC, which showed that after 4 weeks treatment, 8 became free of the signs.
At the recent RWA conference, Sharon Redrobe pointed out that all the study shows is that fenbendazole is effective if given for a week before the animal contracts EC...hardly practical, and also calls into question whether randomly giving it as prevention is helpful, as all it is doing is preventing infection during the 9 days your'e giving it. She also said that she spoke to the people who had done the experiments and asked them 'why 28 days'...the answer was simply 'because it's a month'. No heady science on life cycles, just a neat time in which to conduct the experiment!
She also expressed concerns that this family of drugs is actually pretty toxic so is concerned that its sudden rise in preventative use may prove to have repercussions for the long term health of bunnies, as this is not yet known. Also of course the more it is randomely used, the more likely resistance is to occur.
And finally of course, there is a difference between worming, and treating to prevent EC. Fenbendazole does also kill worms - it started out life as a horse/dog/cat wormer, so it is effective for that as well. But as rabbits aren't meat eaters and they tend not to roam freely, they're less likely to pick up worms from the normal life cycle (mice etc) so are less likely to need worming anyway.
If anyone sees any signs which may indicate EC, personally I would go to the vet first rather than try and self-treat with panacur at home. Partly this is because it might not be that, and it needs a vet to give a thorough examination of the bun to diagnose, but maybe more importantly, panacur is used to treat the actual infection, but the symptoms (which can become permanent and disabling if untreated) are caused by inflammation and/or infection associated with the EC, and these may need treating appropriately with anti-inflammatories and/or antibiotics depending on what the symptoms are. Panacur on its own won't help in the long run in these circumstances and in fact trying to treat at home initially could result in more harm than good overall.
Suter, C.; Mueller-Doblies, U.; Hatt, J-M. & Deplazes, P. (2001) 'Prevention and treatment of Encephalitozoon cuniculi infection in rabbits with fenbendazole' in Veterinary Record, Vol 148:478-480.
It is two pages long. All it shows is that of 2 rabbits given fenbendazole at 20mg/kg for a week before they are infected with EC and for 3 weeks after infection, and 2 who were given the same but with fenbendazole only given for 2 more days after infection none were found to have EC when they were euthanased much later, compared to all 4 of the control group who developed high antibody titres to EC.
It suggests that 28 days might be more effective because of the life cycle - presumably where the suggestion of 28 days for active infections and 9 days for prevention comes in. It also cites a separate study of a further 16 rabbits with signs consistent with EC, which showed that after 4 weeks treatment, 8 became free of the signs.
At the recent RWA conference, Sharon Redrobe pointed out that all the study shows is that fenbendazole is effective if given for a week before the animal contracts EC...hardly practical, and also calls into question whether randomly giving it as prevention is helpful, as all it is doing is preventing infection during the 9 days your'e giving it. She also said that she spoke to the people who had done the experiments and asked them 'why 28 days'...the answer was simply 'because it's a month'. No heady science on life cycles, just a neat time in which to conduct the experiment!
She also expressed concerns that this family of drugs is actually pretty toxic so is concerned that its sudden rise in preventative use may prove to have repercussions for the long term health of bunnies, as this is not yet known. Also of course the more it is randomely used, the more likely resistance is to occur.
And finally of course, there is a difference between worming, and treating to prevent EC. Fenbendazole does also kill worms - it started out life as a horse/dog/cat wormer, so it is effective for that as well. But as rabbits aren't meat eaters and they tend not to roam freely, they're less likely to pick up worms from the normal life cycle (mice etc) so are less likely to need worming anyway.
If anyone sees any signs which may indicate EC, personally I would go to the vet first rather than try and self-treat with panacur at home. Partly this is because it might not be that, and it needs a vet to give a thorough examination of the bun to diagnose, but maybe more importantly, panacur is used to treat the actual infection, but the symptoms (which can become permanent and disabling if untreated) are caused by inflammation and/or infection associated with the EC, and these may need treating appropriately with anti-inflammatories and/or antibiotics depending on what the symptoms are. Panacur on its own won't help in the long run in these circumstances and in fact trying to treat at home initially could result in more harm than good overall.
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Are buns at higher risk if they are near to dogs? Not something I have ever worried about but we are currently thinking of getting a dog
