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Boy trouble

Promise I'm not going to do an update ever day!

But I had a small query following today's episode.
So followed the same routine and today we let it go on a bit longer. There initially was a bit of ignoring and hopping slowly around. Then Luther tried to say hi to Truffle as he passed by bit Truffle was scared of an attack so whipped around which then Luther thought was aggressive and kickstarted the first locking on battle which we intervened (no amount of noise or distraction works we found out so getting in there is all we can do). Immediately after breaking them up they insisted on sitting near each other then when a bit calmer sniffed and nose bumped a bit. Then because they both moved quickly and turned this started round two of locking on so again we stopped it.

So it repeated again, wanting to sit near each other Luther kept pushing his luck a bit really wanting to sniff Truffle. To end on a positive we gave them a treat each which they happily took and ate near each other, just before Luther finished his we popped him over the other side.

So my question. From our observations myself and my OH see a pattern that seems to be the cause of aggression. There is a fear in them both that the other rabbit wants to attack and cause harm...but in fact both actually just want to investigate the other but any sudden movement and they assume it's a call to war. Is there anything we can do to help the situation when food doesn't make much difference (also the treat did today but it's small) or is it a matter of waiting and they will eventually learn being quick or going towards the other means "I'm coming to get you" ?

Still feeling positive though despite two fights because they seem fine with each other after today :)
 
Promise I'm not going to do an update ever day!

But I had a small query following today's episode.
So followed the same routine and today we let it go on a bit longer. There initially was a bit of ignoring and hopping slowly around. Then Luther tried to say hi to Truffle as he passed by bit Truffle was scared of an attack so whipped around which then Luther thought was aggressive and kickstarted the first locking on battle which we intervened (no amount of noise or distraction works we found out so getting in there is all we can do). Immediately after breaking them up they insisted on sitting near each other then when a bit calmer sniffed and nose bumped a bit. Then because they both moved quickly and turned this started round two of locking on so again we stopped it.

So it repeated again, wanting to sit near each other Luther kept pushing his luck a bit really wanting to sniff Truffle. To end on a positive we gave them a treat each which they happily took and ate near each other, just before Luther finished his we popped him over the other side.

So my question. From our observations myself and my OH see a pattern that seems to be the cause of aggression. There is a fear in them both that the other rabbit wants to attack and cause harm...but in fact both actually just want to investigate the other but any sudden movement and they assume it's a call to war. Is there anything we can do to help the situation when food doesn't make much difference (also the treat did today but it's small) or is it a matter of waiting and they will eventually learn being quick or going towards the other means "I'm coming to get you" ?

Still feeling positive though despite two fights because they seem fine with each other after today :)

Don't worry about that! It's nice being able to share bonding stories - gives all of the stresses of bonding a purpose in the end :D

It does sound like they do just need time to get to know each other and trust each other. Again, my pair did this the first day or so - there was a lot of mutual mistrust and misunderstanding. In the end, Monty learnt to approach with head down, supplicating himself, and he also learnt when Ossie nipped out at him not to respond but just to keep inching up to her until he was snuggled underneath her. After the first few times, Ossie learnt to stop nipping - you could still see her tense and her head shoot out, but she no longer nipped, it was just an instinctive fright thing. And, again, they couldn't be better now! In fact, they both panicked at once earlier, and still Ossie did the gentlemanly thing and let Monty escape into the "safe place" first because she could see him coming up on her. I personally don't know anything you can do other than let them work it out, although somebody might have some tips. It's hard when they're first getting together, but as it's only for a minute at a time, could you provide them with somewhere dark to hide? I don't know how advisable it is. We couldn't because they became territorial over it, but yours presumably won't have time to do that. I'm just wondering if it would help if in fear they could flight rather than fight, so they might be able to approach without causing panic. I may be talking nonsense though!
 
Promise I'm not going to do an update ever day!

But I had a small query following today's episode.
So followed the same routine and today we let it go on a bit longer. There initially was a bit of ignoring and hopping slowly around. Then Luther tried to say hi to Truffle as he passed by bit Truffle was scared of an attack so whipped around which then Luther thought was aggressive and kickstarted the first locking on battle which we intervened (no amount of noise or distraction works we found out so getting in there is all we can do). Immediately after breaking them up they insisted on sitting near each other then when a bit calmer sniffed and nose bumped a bit. Then because they both moved quickly and turned this started round two of locking on so again we stopped it.

So it repeated again, wanting to sit near each other Luther kept pushing his luck a bit really wanting to sniff Truffle. To end on a positive we gave them a treat each which they happily took and ate near each other, just before Luther finished his we popped him over the other side.

So my question. From our observations myself and my OH see a pattern that seems to be the cause of aggression. There is a fear in them both that the other rabbit wants to attack and cause harm...but in fact both actually just want to investigate the other but any sudden movement and they assume it's a call to war. Is there anything we can do to help the situation when food doesn't make much difference (also the treat did today but it's small) or is it a matter of waiting and they will eventually learn being quick or going towards the other means "I'm coming to get you" ?

Still feeling positive though despite two fights because they seem fine with each other after today :)
All sounds very normal to me. They'll get to learn sudden movement doesn't mean attack in due time. Trying to avoid the locking on is ideal. So you've noticed they'll sniff, then may suddenly move which will lead to a fight. Personally after the stiff I'd be tempted to try a little distraction so they sniff (positive interaction) then distract so don't become defensive.

Your method now will be very slow but not impossible. You may find faster improvement doing a solid weekend bond but obviously you need to feel comfortable in yourself to do this so continue as you are until you feel ready.

It honestly sounds like it's going well and I don't think you need to rush to speed up the process. Your current progress is very good.

(Btw, daily updates is fine ;) )

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Don't worry about that! It's nice being able to share bonding stories - gives all of the stresses of bonding a purpose in the end :D

It does sound like they do just need time to get to know each other and trust each other. Again, my pair did this the first day or so - there was a lot of mutual mistrust and misunderstanding. In the end, Monty learnt to approach with head down, supplicating himself, and he also learnt when Ossie nipped out at him not to respond but just to keep inching up to her until he was snuggled underneath her. After the first few times, Ossie learnt to stop nipping - you could still see her tense and her head shoot out, but she no longer nipped, it was just an instinctive fright thing. And, again, they couldn't be better now! In fact, they both panicked at once earlier, and still Ossie did the gentlemanly thing and let Monty escape into the "safe place" first because she could see him coming up on her. I personally don't know anything you can do other than let them work it out, although somebody might have some tips. It's hard when they're first getting together, but as it's only for a minute at a time, could you provide them with somewhere dark to hide? I don't know how advisable it is. We couldn't because they became territorial over it, but yours presumably won't have time to do that. I'm just wondering if it would help if in fear they could flight rather than fight, so they might be able to approach without causing panic. I may be talking nonsense though!


OK cool I feel so much better knowing yours did the same too! I hope they do the same and start to approach slower and chill out a bit. Luther being small he's quite quick which is why the cats are terrified of him because he's speedy, but all he wants to do is investigate.

I checked them both over this morning and there don't seem to be any more injuries so fat which is good because it loos horrible when they lock on and kick each other.

Well funny you say that actually because we were lazy last night and left the two cardboard boxes we move them in, in there them....neither seem to acknowledge anything besides each other in the area, and they just want to keep going back to each other. I even tried pebbles in a plastic bottle to use as a sound distraction they have never heard before....no reaction what so ever lol. So it's just up to them now and us intervening when needed.

We think despite being small some progress and differences are noticeable so hopefully they will soon realised they both want the same thing!

Thank you for your help and support x
 
All sounds very normal to me. They'll get to learn sudden movement doesn't mean attack in due time. Trying to avoid the locking on is ideal. So you've noticed they'll sniff, then may suddenly move which will lead to a fight. Personally after the stiff I'd be tempted to try a little distraction so they sniff (positive interaction) then distract so don't become defensive.

Your method now will be very slow but not impossible. You may find faster improvement doing a solid weekend bond but obviously you need to feel comfortable in yourself to do this so continue as you are until you feel ready.

It honestly sounds like it's going well and I don't think you need to rush to speed up the process. Your current progress is very good.

(Btw, daily updates is fine ;) )

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Ah I'm so glad it all sounds normal. It sounds bad but when I was younger I always had single bunnies so this is all very new to me and unlike cats I find bunnies quite hard to read, but I think we are getting better....we are learning just as much as both rabbits!

That might be a good idea actually. We did do that on the first day, but Luther's treat habit is to grab it and hop off to a safe eating location, which on this occasion was near Truffle....so the quick movement meant the naana chip was forgotten and fighting occurred.
But now they are a bit more aware of how the other acts maybe it would be worth trying again now and see if like you say it diffuses the tension a bit. I was suprised last night they were happy to sit next to each other with a treat each do they can't have been that stressed.

Yeah I think because there are small but noticeable changes each day , we will keep going like this next week and revisit if we need to just intensify it next weekend and go into the bathroom etc for a day or two. As long as there's progress in some form not matter how small, we are happy to go at their pace.

Thank you so much for your kindness and help x
 
Feeling a bit sad tonight....we had one of them screaming during their last fight :-(

Boxes were there but both were just intent on going to each other and lead to biting or locking on. Poor Truffle has his other ear cut now in two places but not bleeding and I think Luther got stressed because when I picked him up after the last fight he went a bit floppy.

Both are eating happily on their own sides and have calmed down. Sam isn't disheartened and thinks maybe for some reason it's when we do it on that specific side, because on the other side (which was yesterday) truffle gets away for a break on the low bookcase shelf a few inches off the floor....but doesn't use this as "higher ground" in fights.
He's feeling ok about it....me I feel a bit weepy because it's hard watching it happen and them being seemingly mean to each other, plus I know screaming means pain or they are terrified. I think it was Luther but we don't know :-(
 
I'm so sorry you've heard one scream.

I think you may benefit from a break for a night or two as you'll likely be extra stressed during the next bond.

Was there anything that appeared to cause the fight? Any particular interaction just before, and high value treats etc?

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Last edited:
Feeling a bit sad tonight....we had one of them screaming during their last fight :-(

Boxes were there but both were just intent on going to each other and lead to biting or locking on. Poor Truffle has his other ear cut now in two places but not bleeding and I think Luther got stressed because when I picked him up after the last fight he went a bit floppy.

Both are eating happily on their own sides and have calmed down. Sam isn't disheartened and thinks maybe for some reason it's when we do it on that specific side, because on the other side (which was yesterday) truffle gets away for a break on the low bookcase shelf a few inches off the floor....but doesn't use this as "higher ground" in fights.
He's feeling ok about it....me I feel a bit weepy because it's hard watching it happen and them being seemingly mean to each other, plus I know screaming means pain or they are terrified. I think it was Luther but we don't know :-(


I am so sorry to hear this. I have never had a rabbit scream during a bonding, and it must've been scary for all of you as well as the rabs.

I may be completely out of order here, but I am wondering whether your rabbits are becoming frustrated and angry because they haven't been allowed the length of time together to 'sort it out' between them. So they are taking their frustration out on one another?

Many apologies if I have read this situation wrong. You know your rabbits best, and the way you want to bond them :)
 
I'm so sorry you've heard one scream.

I think you may benefit from a break for a night or two as you'll likely be extra stressed during the next bond.

Was there anything that appeared to cause the fight? Any particular interaction just before, and high value treats etc?

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Do you think a break will be ok for them after it ended abruptly with us breaking them up after the big fight? As long as it won't hinder them or put them off for the next time. It was horrible and we couldn't get them apart I ended up pushing poor sam over by accident lol.

We had treats on the window cil ready to use as you suggested but never got to use them. We can't think of anything specific happening it was the same as yesterday with them not trusting sniffing or quick movement which caused them to attack. The first attack was the same as normal which we stopped but then it just escalated each time until it was a massive lock on and scream until we could get them apart.

The only varients are which side we do it on and because of certain things happening this week such as the car accident, we have not done it at 6pm with their dinner straight after which is due at 6, the whole thing has been starting more like 7pm which means dinner is late too. That's all I can think. It's a shame because even though they fought yesterday they were nice to each other through the bars after so I thought real progress was made :-( x
 
I am so sorry to hear this. I have never had a rabbit scream during a bonding, and it must've been scary for all of you as well as the rabs.

I may be completely out of order here, but I am wondering whether your rabbits are becoming frustrated and angry because they haven't been allowed the length of time together to 'sort it out' between them. So they are taking their frustration out on one another?

Many apologies if I have read this situation wrong. You know your rabbits best, and the way you want to bond them :)

It was terrifying I must admit because we struggled to get them apart and I know how serious it is when they scream....I felt awful :-(

I dint think that's put of order at all I welcome any advice openly. See Luther bites the bars a lot like he used to when he was frustrated at bring in his hutch and wanted to come out, so I assumed it was something similar, but maybe it's actually more like your saying and it's frustration at not getting to Truffle.
Thing is if it could be that they need longer, I don't know what to do from here because if it's that out of hand now we can't let a fight like that happen then continue. So would a break re set things a bit so the next "fights" are calmer or I'd that it now, it's come to a head and will be explosive until it's sorted? :-/

I know there behaviour in general, but I'm at a loss for this because I have never had two rabbits let alone bond any so I'm a slave to the knowledge of more experienced people like you guys and what the bunnies know themselves.

Thank you for your comments I really do appreciate it
 
I've been following your thread and rooting for you all. I'm really sorry the boys had a bust up[emoji17] My bunnies had a terrible fight last year and so I know how frightening it is. Once they lock on they're like a tornado and it's very difficult to prise them apart. I managed to successfully rebond my pair after their fight, just to give you a bit of hope and reassurance that it all is not lost.

Good luck and I have everything crossed for you that the next session will go better.


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I've been following your thread and rooting for you all. I'm really sorry the boys had a bust up[emoji17] My bunnies had a terrible fight last year and so I know how frightening it is. Once they lock on they're like a tornado and it's very difficult to prise them apart. I managed to successfully rebond my pair after their fight, just to give you a bit of hope and reassurance that it all is not lost.

Good luck and I have everything crossed for you that the next session will go better.


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Aw thank you that's really sweet of you :)

It's horrible isn't it because you don't want them to hurt or be hurt but also you know it has to happen to a degree. I just hope it's not too far this time.

What did you do to rebond them after their bust up? Thank you, as horrible as it is that other people's bunnies have been mean like ours, it is comforting that they came out the other side in a good place, so I appreciate you sharing your experience with me.
Thank you so much, me too :)
 
Do you think a break will be ok for them after it ended abruptly with us breaking them up after the big fight? As long as it won't hinder them or put them off for the next time. It was horrible and we couldn't get them apart I ended up pushing poor sam over by accident lol.

We had treats on the window cil ready to use as you suggested but never got to use them. We can't think of anything specific happening it was the same as yesterday with them not trusting sniffing or quick movement which caused them to attack. The first attack was the same as normal which we stopped but then it just escalated each time until it was a massive lock on and scream until we could get them apart.

The only varients are which side we do it on and because of certain things happening this week such as the car accident, we have not done it at 6pm with their dinner straight after which is due at 6, the whole thing has been starting more like 7pm which means dinner is late too. That's all I can think. It's a shame because even though they fought yesterday they were nice to each other through the bars after so I thought real progress was made :-( x
A break will be fine.

I separated my girls for a week following a serious fight. But after the separation we went straight into a full week bond without separation. They were in an XL dog crate in my bedroom.

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I did pretty much the same as DP. I kept them separate for a few days then did the fast bond method, i.e. kept them together in the kitchen 24/7 for a couple of days and then slowly extended outwards until they had full free range of the flat as normal.

They fought a lot on the first night. In hindsight I made a crucial mistake that I'm convinced prolonged the period of fighting. Although I neutralised the kitchen I put in a litter tray that hadn't been and they both became territorial over it which triggered the fighting. It took me a long time to figure it out. Funny how stress can make you blind to the obvious!


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I did pretty much the same as DP. I kept them separate for a few days then did the fast bond method, i.e. kept them together in the kitchen 24/7 for a couple of days and then slowly extended outwards until they had full free range of the flat as normal.

They fought a lot on the first night. In hindsight I made a crucial mistake that I'm convinced prolonged the period of fighting. Although I neutralised the kitchen I put in a litter tray that hadn't been and they both became territorial over it which triggered the fighting. It took me a long time to figure it out. Funny how stress can make you blind to the obvious!


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It's funny how we overlook these kinda things sometimes isn't it?

I once gave the girls a toy that had been used for a male rabbit. I cleaned it but didn't neutralise the smell. They had a full blown fight and I had to confine them to their room and sleep in the hall for a week to rebond them.

The girls had fights for about 3 nights, but as time went by thy got used to it.

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I did pretty much the same as DP. I kept them separate for a few days then did the fast bond method, i.e. kept them together in the kitchen 24/7 for a couple of days and then slowly extended outwards until they had full free range of the flat as normal.

They fought a lot on the first night. In hindsight I made a crucial mistake that I'm convinced prolonged the period of fighting. Although I neutralised the kitchen I put in a litter tray that hadn't been and they both became territorial over it which triggered the fighting. It took me a long time to figure it out. Funny how stress can make you blind to the obvious!


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Oh ok it's so good to know that it works! See we were debating weather to use the en suite because then our bedroom is there and neither have been in there......could start in the shower but it's probably a bit too small for us too. The bathroom is downstairs which truffle has been in as he had all of downstairs but I can scrub it. Unfortunately we can't start in the tub because we can't pick truffle up so it would never really work, but the floor is tiled so could help with not being able to attack as easily.

It's possible to do exactly like yourself and eventually spread outwards from there however the cats will become a potential issue. They are very nosey and like "getting into things" also currently there are indoor cats and only young still. Both bunnies know them though and truffle has been with them for a year before now.

Oh no! It's things like that you just don't think about, it's scary how a small thing can set you right back. Thanks again for your advice and help


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It's funny how we overlook these kinda things sometimes isn't it?

I once gave the girls a toy that had been used for a male rabbit. I cleaned it but didn't neutralise the smell. They had a full blown fight and I had to confine them to their room and sleep in the hall for a week to rebond them.

The girls had fights for about 3 nights, but as time went by thy got used to it.

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Oh dear! It seems like it can literally be the smallest thing that will upset them.

Would you say having a break for two weeks is far too long?
Because we thought about doing it Friday onwards but we have something already booked from midday on Sunday so we are a bit stuck between the two options. I might see if my other half can get time off perhaps


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Oh dear! It seems like it can literally be the smallest thing that will upset them.

Would you say having a break for two weeks is far too long?
Because we thought about doing it Friday onwards but we have something already booked from midday on Sunday so we are a bit stuck between the two options. I might see if my other half can get time off perhaps


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Two weeks is fine. Bit of a stretch and I'd suggest to give them time out of the room each day to really stretch their legs properly. Even if it's one downstairs & one outside in the run.

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Two weeks is fine. Bit of a stretch and I'd suggest to give them time out of the room each day to really stretch their legs properly. Even if it's one downstairs & one outside in the run.

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Oh ok, I had no idea we could do that! I thought they had to be side by side the whole time........see newbie haha!

Thank you so much x


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Oh ok, I had no idea we could do that! I thought they had to be side by side the whole time........see newbie haha!

Thank you so much x


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It's not ideal but it's a couple extra weeks in the room so worth them having some time out each day to stretch properly until you start bonding again.

Some things in life are black and white. Rabbit bonding is definitely a grey.

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