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Hello - Week 2 of Stasis (Long read sorry)

Hey folks,

Hope you're well.

This is going to be a bit of a strange post (and long) but feel it's necessary to ask these questions to see what the next steps are if you have any recommendations at all please help out, I've labelled them by number to try and make it easier for you to read:

1) Wobbles - It is day 40 since Siddi's seizure and while he has improved, he is still very wobbly when startled.. ( see first second of video and towards the end in milder form > https://vimeo.com/220826018 ) Long term, do you think there is anything that can be done with this other than the hope weight increase and muscle strength comes back? I don't know whether taking him to the Gold vets in Bedford is worth it against the stress, the American vets haven't recommend anything either and waiting for our vets to come back with a proposed cause of action.

2) Poop Size - This is a bit alarming, in the past 2 days his poops have shrank from monster rabbit poops (albeit they were a bit moisty - if that is a word) to little slightly firmer smaller ones, still perfectly formed, good colour and not that small but smaller than before - still moist, still breakable and with good contents of hay in them but if they get any smaller I would be worried. The counter argument is since Saturday, he's not had any metacam, he's only having 2 CC's a day now instead of 3 and it is about 8-10 degrees warmer in the house due to the UK actually being hot for once, at least in Herts! He is still eating hay, 6-7 teaspoons of pellets a day and a teaspoon of veggies while attacking his grass house but I guess here, if he stops pooping then usual procedure applys - get him to the vets, or if his poops turn to grit size again... Tummy rubs hes purring, so think there's no obvious blockage. Stomach feels good.

3) Eyes - We are also a bit worried one of his eyeballs is a bit swollen, I noticed it the day after his seizure that he seemed to have big bulgy eyes. One seems to have settled down but still one seems big, I think there is a very very transparent level of cloud on that eye, which in 40 days has got no worse. Do you know if it's worth consulting the Bedford gold vets about a lens replacement if it does? Is it expensive? I've put two pictures on flickr, trying to plough through the thousands I have of him prior to his vet visit to compare - https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482612@N02/35301214275/in/dateposted-public/ // https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482612@N02/35301214445/in/dateposted-public/

4) Teeth Grinding 5) This morning 5am (again) (14th June 17) & 6) Cecotrope

So this morning, I woke up about 5:30am to him in a rather odd position asleep, he was spread out like a loaf but no obvious signs of gas but rather in the spread loaf position his back hind legs were not relaxed but kinda bent against the floor, I left him to it for a few minutes and then said his name a few times and he woke up - perhaps he was snoring but he didn't seem right at the time and it took him close to 90 minutes to return to normal, in this time there was a lot of tooth grinding/chatter where there would be the odd loud individual grind, he was kinda comotose to a degree, he would walk to a spot in the room and then just stop and look gormless for a bit.. It was just odd behaviour, but then I'm not normally awake to see him at that time. When he started to come round he would try scratching and on one side (his left, opposite side to his injured leg originally) he fell over himself, perhaps it was through tiredness and stiffness I don't know. He has done it plenty of times when he got back from vets to be fair and over the past two weeks or so that's practically gone, but maybe being asleep for a while stiffed him up. His belly sounds were fine btw. For the next hour there was a bit of tooth grinding but eventually he started grooming himself, eating and gnawing at stuff and grooming me.. poops flowing too, we are looking at over 100 a day now. The strange bit here was just before I went to work, he left a perfectly formed cecotrope in his litter as he was too busy on the timothy hay... He's left a few since he's been back but none as well formed as that..

I guess the above is a kinda, he's getting better, but there's still signs of some things not 100% and it's trying to keep his progress going which is just proving hard. I am going on holiday at the end of July and one of my neighbours is going to be living in the house bar his work hours, but I am absolutely dreading it if he's not fully right, as you can tell there is a lot of monitoring going into him at the moment to make sure he returns to the best condition he can possibly get back to...

He has a repeat prescription available so I might go and grab it tonight just for anything to have the metacam on days where he seems to be teeth grinding, is this sensible? Is it worth the stress of a 30 mile / 40m drive to the gold vets to get him thoroughly evaluated or do we continue to see how it goes, monitoring poops day and water intake etc...

Sorry for the long post, it's just a rather anxious time at present given the odd few signs - but perhaps that is his 'normal' now.

Rich

It would seem that the 'wobbles' are neurological in origin. This might be due to the damage done by EC. From the photos it is hard to be sure but it looks as though he may have some cataract formation and possibly a condition called phacoclastic uveitis. Another result of EC, as detailed in the following information:

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

If the intra-ocular pressure is raised this would cause pain, so it is something that needs to be checked.

As with any brain/central nervous system injury any recovery that may occur can take time. Months as opposed to weeks. But sometimes there will be a permanent disability of some sort.

Obviously all of the above are just my unqualified musings, I am in no position to make any sort of diagnosis. If getting to a Specialist were to be an option for you then I think I would opt to do that. But of course you know Siddi best and it may be that travelling and further diagnostics would be too stressful for him. It may be that you simply manage his condition on a day by day basis and continue to keep in close contact with your local Vet. Even if you were to consult the Specialist it may be that a definitive diagnosis is all that would come from it, with no other treatment options other than what Siddi is already having.

I hope that Siddi will remain comfortable within himself xx
 
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Agreed about the end of the metacam and poop reduction, we are going to get a repeat prescription asap and retest the hypothesis here.

Do you not think it could be the reduction in CC? His last Zantac was the 1st June while his last Cisapride was the 4th June - Last Metacam 10th June. The poops are almost not as dense, they were very watery before while large. Now they're firmer but still in good quality.

With regards to the EC and wobbles - my mind is just locked it never occurred the day prior to his seizure. (worth pointing out seizure after 3 days not passing poops but eating greens and even treats got his glucose at 23 30 minutes after seizure)
Seeing him the following day in the vets, it was there. It occurs when he is startled or not confident with a sound or shape.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482612@N02/34493630303/in/dateposted-public/ for his eyes - the white on the front on pics is the light from the windows, what is not so obvious is what the hell is the little green blob just bottom left of it. This is a concern as is wondering if the lens will head more cloudy or just stay put as he's not had trauma since the 5th may.

We have a house visit tomorrow from the local vet for a checkup, I'm just not certain how much she will know on rabbits though.

Urgh..... The past 40 days have been :censored: To take him to the specialists or not though.. :/

This paper is interesting: https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.pro...9e50005056ad4736/file/PV1112_Pilny1_EE-CR.pdf as is http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm - It really sounds like EC along with his seizure probably put him at very low immune system... Just hope the meds served their purpose.
 
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Hey folks,

Hope you're well.

This is going to be a bit of a strange post (and long) but feel it's necessary to ask these questions to see what the next steps are if you have any recommendations at all please help out, I've labelled them by number to try and make it easier for you to read:

1) Wobbles - It is day 40 since Siddi's seizure and while he has improved, he is still very wobbly when startled.. ( see first second of video and towards the end in milder form > https://vimeo.com/220826018 ) Long term, do you think there is anything that can be done with this other than the hope weight increase and muscle strength comes back? I don't know whether taking him to the Gold vets in Bedford is worth it against the stress, the American vets haven't recommend anything either and waiting for our vets to come back with a proposed cause of action.

2) Poop Size - This is a bit alarming, in the past 2 days his poops have shrank from monster rabbit poops (albeit they were a bit moisty - if that is a word) to little slightly firmer smaller ones, still perfectly formed, good colour and not that small but smaller than before - still moist, still breakable and with good contents of hay in them but if they get any smaller I would be worried. The counter argument is since Saturday, he's not had any metacam, he's only having 2 CC's a day now instead of 3 and it is about 8-10 degrees warmer in the house due to the UK actually being hot for once, at least in Herts! He is still eating hay, 6-7 teaspoons of pellets a day and a teaspoon of veggies while attacking his grass house but I guess here, if he stops pooping then usual procedure applys - get him to the vets, or if his poops turn to grit size again... Tummy rubs hes purring, so think there's no obvious blockage. Stomach feels good.

3) Eyes - We are also a bit worried one of his eyeballs is a bit swollen, I noticed it the day after his seizure that he seemed to have big bulgy eyes. One seems to have settled down but still one seems big, I think there is a very very transparent level of cloud on that eye, which in 40 days has got no worse. Do you know if it's worth consulting the Bedford gold vets about a lens replacement if it does? Is it expensive? I've put two pictures on flickr, trying to plough through the thousands I have of him prior to his vet visit to compare - https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482612@N02/35301214275/in/dateposted-public/ // https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482612@N02/35301214445/in/dateposted-public/

4) Teeth Grinding 5) This morning 5am (again) (14th June 17) & 6) Cecotrope

So this morning, I woke up about 5:30am to him in a rather odd position asleep, he was spread out like a loaf but no obvious signs of gas but rather in the spread loaf position his back hind legs were not relaxed but kinda bent against the floor, I left him to it for a few minutes and then said his name a few times and he woke up - perhaps he was snoring but he didn't seem right at the time and it took him close to 90 minutes to return to normal, in this time there was a lot of tooth grinding/chatter where there would be the odd loud individual grind, he was kinda comotose to a degree, he would walk to a spot in the room and then just stop and look gormless for a bit.. It was just odd behaviour, but then I'm not normally awake to see him at that time. When he started to come round he would try scratching and on one side (his left, opposite side to his injured leg originally) he fell over himself, perhaps it was through tiredness and stiffness I don't know. He has done it plenty of times when he got back from vets to be fair and over the past two weeks or so that's practically gone, but maybe being asleep for a while stiffed him up. His belly sounds were fine btw. For the next hour there was a bit of tooth grinding but eventually he started grooming himself, eating and gnawing at stuff and grooming me.. poops flowing too, we are looking at over 100 a day now. The strange bit here was just before I went to work, he left a perfectly formed cecotrope in his litter as he was too busy on the timothy hay... He's left a few since he's been back but none as well formed as that..

I guess the above is a kinda, he's getting better, but there's still signs of some things not 100% and it's trying to keep his progress going which is just proving hard. I am going on holiday at the end of July and one of my neighbours is going to be living in the house bar his work hours, but I am absolutely dreading it if he's not fully right, as you can tell there is a lot of monitoring going into him at the moment to make sure he returns to the best condition he can possibly get back to...

He has a repeat prescription available so I might go and grab it tonight just for anything to have the metacam on days where he seems to be teeth grinding, is this sensible? Is it worth the stress of a 30 mile / 40m drive to the gold vets to get him thoroughly evaluated or do we continue to see how it goes, monitoring poops day and water intake etc...

Sorry for the long post, it's just a rather anxious time at present given the odd few signs - but perhaps that is his 'normal' now.

Rich



Just a few thoughts ..

I've had rabbits with phacoclastic uveitis, and it's never made the eye look bulgy. I wouldn't consider a lens replacement, even if the eye lost it's sight. A rabbit with one eye manages OK. However, it may be worth seeing an ophthalmologist to confirm the eye diagnosis. I find that vets, even really good specialist ones, can't beat a good ophthalmologist.

Regarding the tooth chatter, this would be something I would want addressed by a good vet. More input from the States even perhaps?

Regarding the wobbles - this sounds uncannily familiar. I had a rabbit who had a seizure which the vet connected with E.C. It was quite complicated in the end, but long story short, he never really was 'himself' afterwards. What alerted me was your comment about him looking gormless for a bit.. It was just odd behaviour.

I actually consulted an 'alternative' vet for help with these symptoms, as my own vet was at a loss as to know what to do. She was completely at one with me doing this, I have to say! She had also never dealt with a seizure in a rabbit before. I did find that these alternative treatments greatly helped his neurological symptoms, which were quite devastating at times following his 'recovery' from the initial seizure.

Ongoing luck and vibes for you and Siddi. He's a well loved rabbit indeed :love:
 
Brief update for today/tonight then as back from work. Loads of poops, most a reasonable size and he's very active! Teeth noises not noticeable for now but will see later tonight when house is completely quiet.

Vet is actually coming to visit tomorrow at 5pm. They're bringing a repeat prescription, scales and to collect a latest urine sample and will check his eyes out too.

Thank you so much for the three of you for replying through this, again - your words help provide clarity and a clear mind when I end up fretting over him at work! Urghhh, the love of pets is too strong!
 
Morning,

So the vets came yesterday - all signs for his eyes and weight are good. There isn't anything obvious to flag on the eye test and his weight has increased to a good level.

They're not sure if they can assist with his wobbles but it's something for us to keep an eye on. Their offer was an MRI but then we have the risk with the general anesthetic and travel to the vets etc after last time it's kinda a last resort.

He has been given some metacam again and cisapride along with zantac. The motility drugs won't come into play unless he is obviously struggling. We have given him the metacam but he's still randomly teeth grinding (not frequently - a few times an hour at most and then not at all) which is a bit of a curious one. His behaviour is absolutely normal, he was charging around the garden yesterday and he's eating well and sitting in a puff ball. I guess if he starts being unsocial and hunched up then we need to worry with that one.

This am he's been at hay, pellets and veggies and been more than happy after too.

Some of his poops, not many but a few are slightly bigger today too. That was with 3 ccs yesterday instead of 2. Will make sure he has 3 for the next few days @7.5ml per feed along with the metacam and try that as a hypothesis for his smaller poops. Onwards and upwards. Take care all.

Rich
 
Morning,

So the vets came yesterday - all signs for his eyes and weight are good. There isn't anything obvious to flag on the eye test and his weight has increased to a good level.

They're not sure if they can assist with his wobbles but it's something for us to keep an eye on. Their offer was an MRI but then we have the risk with the general anesthetic and travel to the vets etc after last time it's kinda a last resort.

He has been given some metacam again and cisapride along with zantac. The motility drugs won't come into play unless he is obviously struggling. We have given him the metacam but he's still randomly teeth grinding (not frequently - a few times an hour at most and then not at all) which is a bit of a curious one. His behaviour is absolutely normal, he was charging around the garden yesterday and he's eating well and sitting in a puff ball. I guess if he starts being unsocial and hunched up then we need to worry with that one.

This am he's been at hay, pellets and veggies and been more than happy after too.

Some of his poops, not many but a few are slightly bigger today too. That was with 3 ccs yesterday instead of 2. Will make sure he has 3 for the next few days @7.5ml per feed along with the metacam and try that as a hypothesis for his smaller poops. Onwards and upwards. Take care all.

Rich

I am pleased to hear that the Vet is happy with Siddi's overall progress. He sounds to be happy within himself, which is the most important thing :)
 
Morning,

So the vets came yesterday - all signs for his eyes and weight are good. There isn't anything obvious to flag on the eye test and his weight has increased to a good level.

They're not sure if they can assist with his wobbles but it's something for us to keep an eye on. Their offer was an MRI but then we have the risk with the general anesthetic and travel to the vets etc after last time it's kinda a last resort.

He has been given some metacam again and cisapride along with zantac. The motility drugs won't come into play unless he is obviously struggling. We have given him the metacam but he's still randomly teeth grinding (not frequently - a few times an hour at most and then not at all) which is a bit of a curious one. His behaviour is absolutely normal, he was charging around the garden yesterday and he's eating well and sitting in a puff ball. I guess if he starts being unsocial and hunched up then we need to worry with that one.

This am he's been at hay, pellets and veggies and been more than happy after too.

Some of his poops, not many but a few are slightly bigger today too. That was with 3 ccs yesterday instead of 2. Will make sure he has 3 for the next few days @7.5ml per feed along with the metacam and try that as a hypothesis for his smaller poops. Onwards and upwards. Take care all.

Rich


This is good to hear Rich :)

Keep going Siddi :)
 
I agree, the fact that he seems very content with life at the moment, is the most important thing for him.
 
Hey gang,

Hope you're all well.

Soooo - Sid is still going well. He's having some adventures in the garden and really got his personality back bar the odd wobbles. Looks like Fibreplex and Metacam are really helping which is ideal given the weather for the past few days.

His poops have increased slightly but he still scatters the odd small one and also what appears to be a double joined one, almost like cuboid/cylinder poop. Is that anything to worry about? He hit >150 poops yesterday and I'd count 5 or so were like that (it was painstaking).. I can imagine it probably means gut is spluttering a bit, any particular veggies/twigs that can assist motility that might help get it into 5th gear? There is no point giving him GI motility drugs atm when it's not serious, I guess it would be better to save them in case stasis returned. So close to getting that ignition for poops perfect!

Hope all is well with you!

All the best
Rich
 
Hey gang,

Hope you're all well.

Soooo - Sid is still going well. He's having some adventures in the garden and really got his personality back bar the odd wobbles. Looks like Fibreplex and Metacam are really helping which is ideal given the weather for the past few days.

His poops have increased slightly but he still scatters the odd small one and also what appears to be a double joined one, almost like cuboid/cylinder poop. Is that anything to worry about? He hit >150 poops yesterday and I'd count 5 or so were like that (it was painstaking).. I can imagine it probably means gut is spluttering a bit, any particular veggies/twigs that can assist motility that might help get it into 5th gear? There is no point giving him GI motility drugs atm when it's not serious, I guess it would be better to save them in case stasis returned. So close to getting that ignition for poops perfect!

Hope all is well with you!

All the best
Rich

Glad to hear a good update about Siddi. Re the occasional odd shaped poo, I would not stress about it too much for now. Encouraging him to eat as much hay as possible and keeping his fluids intake up will help. If you can access some fresh brambles, eg blackberry leaves, they may be useful for Siddi too.
 
Perfect, cheers. Yeah living in a village means plenty of blackberry trees scattered around the place, will have a walk after work and grab him a couple. Thank you!
 
Hey gang,

Hope you're all well.

Soooo - Sid is still going well. He's having some adventures in the garden and really got his personality back bar the odd wobbles. Looks like Fibreplex and Metacam are really helping which is ideal given the weather for the past few days.

His poops have increased slightly but he still scatters the odd small one and also what appears to be a double joined one, almost like cuboid/cylinder poop. Is that anything to worry about? He hit >150 poops yesterday and I'd count 5 or so were like that (it was painstaking).. I can imagine it probably means gut is spluttering a bit, any particular veggies/twigs that can assist motility that might help get it into 5th gear? There is no point giving him GI motility drugs atm when it's not serious, I guess it would be better to save them in case stasis returned. So close to getting that ignition for poops perfect!

Hope all is well with you!

All the best
Rich


Good to hear he's got to being himself again! Hopefully the wobbles won't get any worse.

You are very diligent to study his poops so thoroughly! I don't think I would worry about the odd few being .. odd :)

There's a good thread here about stasis and forage, by our lovely lady Thumps who has sadly just lost her beloved Benjie:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...ried-given-your-stasis-prone-buns-tree-leaves
 
Thank you for the guide!

His wobbles haven't got any worse since the 5th May - I'm convinced they've actually got less frequent and with the weight he has put back on I believe they're to a degree not as bad. Pretty certain it's neurological damage from a 3-4 minute fit as opposed to a disease or illness. Asked the vet for any physiotherapy exercises we can give him in the hope it aids it a bit more. Fingers crossed it doesn't get any worse too! Thank you!
 
Glad to hear a good update about Siddi. Re the occasional odd shaped poo, I would not stress about it too much for now. Encouraging him to eat as much hay as possible and keeping his fluids intake up will help. If you can access some fresh brambles, eg blackberry leaves, they may be useful for Siddi too.

I agree with these points. My rabbits all very often have poo, which does not conform to the accepted optimum, sometimes in size and very often in colour, mostly in the Summer. The variation occurs depending on their type of food. Lots of fresh grass and forage tends to make them a darker colour. I have very recently had some Green Oat Hay delivered, which is being devoured at a fantastic rate and subsequently, as expected, the poos have now reverted to golden. Water is important and a good amount should be encouraged.

Bramble leaves are fantastic for rabbits' tummies, but I'm not sure whether they will make the poo golden, I suspect not. But if you disregard the accepted advice regarding colour of poo, the advantages of eating Brambles are welcome. Once you have got him used to eating them, you could increase the amount that you feed.
 
Thank you for the guide!

His wobbles haven't got any worse since the 5th May - I'm convinced they've actually got less frequent and with the weight he has put back on I believe they're to a degree not as bad. Pretty certain it's neurological damage from a 3-4 minute fit as opposed to a disease or illness. Asked the vet for any physiotherapy exercises we can give him in the hope it aids it a bit more. Fingers crossed it doesn't get any worse too! Thank you!


Yes I can relate to that. My little one had a seizure, and then some 'troubles' afterwards ...

Definitely fingers crossed :)
 
Hey dudes,

So ordered in some Green Oat Hay out of curiosity, he is absolutely devouring it. Loves it! So much so, he is going for it over a teaspoon of nuggets in his bowl. It's also increased his poop size slightly and this morning they were more golden than dark. He gave me a scare this morning as I thought he had gas, but turns out he was just using the loo to pass bigger poops! After that he was racing about the house going up stairs and storming from room to room. Just need to monitor to make sure the new hay doesn't give him gas but so far so good. I've mixed it with timothy and he's eating more of that too. He's only now 0.03kg behind his weight pre seizure.. Have a good week all and check in soon.

Rich
 
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