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Bloat?

A

Alison237

Young Bun
I am looking for some urgent advice so I hope someone can help.

My 4 year old, male dwarf lop was ok Friday, but yesterday I noticed some runny poos and him bunched up in the corner of his litter tray.

His belly was solid and I suspected GI, he is on a daily treatment of Metacam for an ear problem which I gave him along with some Zantac, he seemed to perk up a little bit and wanted to cuddle with my other two buns, but when I felt him again he still was solid.

We didn't want to take him to the Vet's, unlike my other two who just don't like the vet, he is terrified to be out of his familiar area, but we decided we had no choice and he was admitted last night.

He has passed some poo and he is eating (my husband spoke to the vet some I am not sure if he is eating voluntarily), but he has had an X-ray which has shown a large bubble.

The vet has said that simethicone is not suitable and whilst he is eating and pooing he wants to just keep him on a pain killer (not Metacam) and hope that the bubble will disperse.

I am very nervous about this, I don't want him to go into any shock, I want the bubble gone, is there any advice anyone can give for me to pass on to my vet.
 
It's possible to use Infacol (meant for babies) with rabbits. I tend to give my stasis prone rabbit some of this when she stops eating. It's supposed to help with gas problems and breaks down big bubbles into smaller ones which are easier to pass. Sounds like this might be what your bunny could use.

Good luck and I hope she ets better soon
 
Thank you for you reply.

Now this is what has confused me, I have read about simethicone (infacol) and all the web sites are saying to use this immediately, but the vet has said it is not suitable, this is one of the reasons I need advice, is he advising correctly?

My husband has just said, the reason he is not administering this is because it is already one large bubble, simethicone is to make the bubble large so it can be passed, but as it already is, there isn't any point.

Does that sound right?
 
How rabbit savvy is your vet? If he has been on pain relief for an ear infection, his pain relief should be maintained. What pain relief has the vet administered and dose/when since admission? Was he given a gut stimulant?

A rabbit can develop stasis if it is in pain and, if you read the Dana Krempel article on the below link, you will learn more. What ear infection did the bunny have and was it on antibiotics?

http://www.ontariorabbits.org/hot_topics/hint_9.html

The fact he is eating and pooing again is good.
 
Ok, this is where I hope I do not make it confusing.

I have a rabbit savvy vet 30 mins away, he is the one that tried Dexter on ear drops but told me that he has not had much success in the past and when I took Dexter back they hadn't done anything.

So he said that the best thing to to is make sure that he is not in any pain so he told me to give him Metacam twice a day, it has been about 2 and a half months.

Since then I have got a new bunny which I had to take to the vet that the rescue centre uses 5 mins away, I have been there several times now with Misty and they are really nice and the lady at the rescue centre had told me they were very good.

When I panicked last night and wanted Dexter to be seen immediately we took him there, so they had never met Dexter before, I know that was a strange thing to do, but we knew that we wouldn't see the vet that knew Dexter at his usual vets out of hours.

As for the gut stimulant, he didn't say, but I had given Dexter some fibreplex myself so maybe that is why.

Thank you for the link I will have a look at that now.
 
Just to clarify, it is not an ear infection, Dexter has a very narrow ear canal which cannot be cured with drops and as there has not been much of a study in this area for rabbits, my vet has said that surgery is not an option at the moment as the risks and benefits are not clear.
 
Did the vet explain why Simethicone was not appropriate? How about Gripe Water? Which Jane has found useful for her gassy buns.

Exercise is important, as is hay and warmth. Something like tummy rubs can help (as can a car journey for those who don't stress in the car, or being placed on an in use washing machine, or having a vibrating toothbrush held to the tummy) if you know the problem is just gas and no blockage or any sort of other problem. If it could potentially be anything more complex than gas then it would be dangerous to try those things involving the tummy.
 
Hello Alison,

It is Kris. There is a rabbit specialist in Upminster. The vet centre is called Wylies, the vet you want to see is called William.

I have no advice as i haven't experienced this.
But IF Gripe Water can be used, there is one bottle left in Dagenham Asda.
 
Regarding the simethicone, he told my husband that this medicine is to enlarge the bubbles so they can be passed, as Dexter has one large bubble in his belly, it will not do anything.

We have just had a call from the vet who is taking over from the night shift, she has told us that he is on an antibiotic (just in case it is bacterial), Zantac, to get the gut moving and pain relief.

He has been syringe fed, he has access to hay but hasn't shown much interest. He has however been tearing newspaper and done two little poos, hopefully the tearing means he is a bit active and the poos.... well two is better than none.

It seems that as there is pooing they want him to pass the gas himself, but I am worried that in the time this takes he could rapidly deteriorate, but the other option of putting a tube down his throat is dangerous too, I just don't know what to do or say, but I know how vital these early hours are.
 
Hi Kris

William at the Whylie Centre is my vet, he is the one that has been dealing with Dexter's ears, but he wasn't available.

In the Ark A.D took him in and now Kristen is looking after him, they are going to let me go up there at 2pm, I hope I will know what to do when I see him.
 
Alison237 said:
Regarding the simethicone, he told my husband that this medicine is to enlarge the bubbles so they can be passed, as Dexter has one large bubble in his belly, it will not do anything.

We have just had a call from the vet who is taking over from the night shift, she has told us that he is on an antibiotic (just in case it is bacterial), Zantac, to get the gut moving and pain relief.

He has been syringe fed, he has access to hay but hasn't shown much interest. He has however been tearing newspaper and done two little poos, hopefully the tearing means he is a bit active and the poos.... well two is better than none.

It seems that as there is pooing they want him to pass the gas himself, but I am worried that in the time this takes he could rapidly deteriorate, but the other option of putting a tube down his throat is dangerous too, I just don't know what to do or say, but I know how vital these early hours are.
Click to expand...

Ok, now I am confused. My son lived on Infacol for a few months has he had terrible colic. I had always been told Infacol REDUCES bubble mass so gas can be passed easily? You vet is telling you it enlarges bubbles? Perhaps he is unsure about telling you to use something not specifically licensed for rabbits? As many bunny owners use it it should be alright to try?
 
I can't comment on Kristen as i have only seen her twice for vaccines, so don't know how bun savvy she is.
 
I feel the same way Ceretrea, I am confused by this, but my husband has found some info on simethicone which makes it sound like Dexter has gone passed the stage of the bubbles and it is already the large ball of gas which is what simethicone does.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100001342.html

Personally, I would like to see that Dexter is being given help to disperse this bubble, but I don't know what that is.

My husband has phoned our vet's and they have said that William will be working tonight and to give him a ring after 7pm, if there has been no change maybe we will have to move him to there.

I have never met Kristen before Kris, I hope I will get a feel of how things are going at 2pm when I hopefully get to talk to her.
 
Thank you

I am definitely going to make that a regular part of all my rabbits diet, for the moment though, Dexter is not eating by himself, I am going to go and get some so hopefully when he starts, it is there for him.
 
Just to ask, the fennel in that picture looked like a plant, but I though fennel was like a bulb type vegetable that smells of aniseed, can you help me with what to look for in the supermarket?
 
When you buy Fennel in the shops it comes as a bulb with tufty bits on top. To be on the safe side cut off the tuftly bits and put them in a cup. Pour boiling water on them and allow to cool. Take a tiny amount and give to bunny via syringe.

Please be aware:- I am not a vet, nor am I qualified to dispense medical advice in any way. My advice is my own personal opinion and I have no idea myself the effects Fennel might have on a bun. The opinion I have is based on the information in the link I gave you. If you are unsure about the application of Fennel please consult your vet :D
 
Alison237 said:
Regarding the simethicone, he told my husband that this medicine is to enlarge the bubbles so they can be passed,

He has been syringe fed, he has access to hay but hasn't shown much interest. He has however been tearing newspaper and done two little poos,

, but the other option of putting a tube down his throat is dangerous too, I just don't know what to do or say, but I know how vital these early hours are.
Click to expand...

I never heard of infacol will enlarge the stomach. There are a lot of these fly-by-night self-acclaimed vets who called herself rabbit specialist.

I would dump this immediately if I were you. If infacol or Ovol will enlarge the stomach, those co. would go belly up long time ago.

I would get 2 ml of infacol every few hour.

since there is poo after all these time, they the blockage shouldn't be cause by things like carpet or furniture fiber. And that's a good sign. The tube idea is 1 of the last course of action, but I would seriously hammer on infacol, as it works really well for many members who have bloat cause by gas build up.

You don't want to force feed too much if the bloat is big. So the most important thing is to get the gas out.
 
Happy Hopping said:
I never heard of infacol will enlarge the stomach. There are a lot of these fly-by-night self-acclaimed vets who called herself rabbit specialist.

I would dump this immediately if I were you. If infacol or Ovol will enlarge the stomach, those co. would go belly up long time ago.

I would get 2 ml of infacol every few hour.

since there is poo after all these time, they the blockage shouldn't be cause by things like carpet or furniture fiber. And that's a good sign. The tube idea is 1 of the last course of action, but I would seriously hammer on infacol, as it works really well for many members who have bloat cause by gas build up.

You don't want to force feed too much if the bloat is big. So the most important thing is to get the gas out.
Click to expand...

Thats what I couldn't understand. The infacol enlarges the bubbles, not the stomach..otherwise they wouldn't give it to premmie babies with colic. But I think the issue here is that the bubbles are already enlarged? but I am more inclined to think its a mass of lots of small bubble appearing to be one big one?

The infacol should work, should do something. The fennel might work..everything I have read so far suggests the green parts of fennel are safe.
 
Infacol's method of action is to coalesce small bubbles (which have little response to gut contraction other than to wiggle about, but many small bubbles together create discomfort) into larger bubbles that are easier for the gut to contract around and move through. In humans gastric gas can be burped up, this is not possible in rabbits, so there is no benefit in giving simeticone or similar agents if there is known to be a stomach full of gas- it cannot change that in any way. The only way that gas can go out of the stomach is either by passing through the length of the intestines, or by being removed using a stomach tube.
I would be wanting to confirm whether the gas in the stomach was not being moved due to a lack of intestinal movements (ileus/stasis) or if there is an obstruction. I would assume that your vets are confident there is no obstruction if they are feeding him and satisfied with his progress. The fact that he is bright enough to be tearing at the paper and the poo is a good sign :)

from 'one of those fly-by-night self-acclaimed vets', although not claiming the title of rabbit specialist (as far as I know there is only one genuine rabbit specialist in the UK).
 
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