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E-cuniculi infection - Flossie

Fionabun

Mama Doe
Hello all,

I'm an old timer here, though no longer post frequently. I hope everyone is well and hello to all, especially if anyone remembers me from 2007-ish (*gulp*)

My Flossie (nearly 10) appears to have full blown EC infection. It started 6 days ago with unilateral hind leg weakness, but now both legs look weak and she's toppling over constantly. I've seen our vet and we've started her on anti-inflammatories and Panacur for 28 days (arguably for the foreseeable). She is a lion head lop mix, so we've lightly shaved her fluffy bum area and I'm helping keep it clean and also preventing urine scalding with barrier cream. Her bunny friend, George, is now also on Panacur. I realise hygiene is a must to manage these urine spores etc.

6 days in, things seem worse: she can't right herself when she topples and waits on me to come to fix her. She still has an excellent appetite and is munching anything and everything in sight, so this is reassuring, but her quality of life is poor in other ways. I've increased water availability all around the big hutch/run, though I'm doubtful she's reaching it, so I've been syringing fluids in when I can, and dousing her veg/herb treats in water too.

Have I simply forgotten how dreadful EC is and how it looks? I'm struggling terribly with the idea that she can't be independent and that it seems to be worsening? Is this to be expected and is there anything else I can do?

Fiona
 
Hello all,

I'm an old timer here, though no longer post frequently. I hope everyone is well and hello to all, especially if anyone remembers me from 2007-ish (*gulp*)

My Flossie (nearly 10) appears to have full blown EC infection. It started 6 days ago with unilateral hind leg weakness, but now both legs look weak and she's toppling over constantly. I've seen our vet and we've started her on anti-inflammatories and Panacur for 28 days (arguably for the foreseeable). She is a lion head lop mix, so we've lightly shaved her fluffy bum area and I'm helping keep it clean and also preventing urine scalding with barrier cream. Her bunny friend, George, is now also on Panacur. I realise hygiene is a must to manage these urine spores etc.

6 days in, things seem worse: she can't right herself when she topples and waits on me to come to fix her. She still has an excellent appetite and is munching anything and everything in sight, so this is reassuring, but her quality of life is poor in other ways. I've increased water availability all around the big hutch/run, though I'm doubtful she's reaching it, so I've been syringing fluids in when I can, and dousing her veg/herb treats in water too.

Have I simply forgotten how dreadful EC is and how it looks? I'm struggling terribly with the idea that she can't be independent and that it seems to be worsening? Is this to be expected and is there anything else I can do?

Fiona

Hello Fiona

Has the Vet ruled out a spinal injury/disc prolapse/arthritis etc ? Is Flossie showing any other neurological symptoms eg head tilt, nystagmus (flicking eyes) ?

Whilst EC is of course a possibility I am wondering if there may be another explanation for Flossie's hind leg paresis

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Differentials/paresis.htm

Whilst the use of corticosteroids in Rabbits is controversial, there are some circumstances in which they can be of benefit, despite the potential risks (lowering of immune system, gastric ulceration, liver damage). Perhaps this is something to discuss with your Vet ?

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Dexamethasone.htm

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Prednisolone.htm

I am sorry to hear that Flossie is struggling now and I hope that her condition can improve sufficiently to enable her to have a better quality of life for her remaining time x
 
EC is a rollercoaster ride. You are doing all the right things. Just keep going. Things should improve. I know it seems awful at the moment, but she is still mobile and managing to eat normally, which makes things a whole lot easier to manage. You could reduce her space a bit if she can't get up when she topples. Maybe using towels or puppy pads (or both) in 'her' area will keep her drier, cleaner, and more comfortable. Something like an underbed storage box or the base of an indoor 'rabbit cage' would be useful as her base, but still allow George access to her.

EC spores are shed in urine, so it is important to keep to a cleaning routine to prevent reinfection. Deep clean on days 21 and 28 of Panacur treatment is recommended.
 
If she is falling over a lot then you could reduce her space down. You can also roll up towels/blankets and place them around the edges to act as bumpers. Flooring is also really important, so avoid anything slippy, uneven, soft and squishy. You want it to be solid and even but also something that she can grip to, carpet offcuts/rugs are perfect.
 
Hello all,

I'm an old timer here, though no longer post frequently. I hope everyone is well and hello to all, especially if anyone remembers me from 2007-ish (*gulp*)

My Flossie (nearly 10) appears to have full blown EC infection. It started 6 days ago with unilateral hind leg weakness, but now both legs look weak and she's toppling over constantly. I've seen our vet and we've started her on anti-inflammatories and Panacur for 28 days (arguably for the foreseeable). She is a lion head lop mix, so we've lightly shaved her fluffy bum area and I'm helping keep it clean and also preventing urine scalding with barrier cream. Her bunny friend, George, is now also on Panacur. I realise hygiene is a must to manage these urine spores etc.

6 days in, things seem worse: she can't right herself when she topples and waits on me to come to fix her. She still has an excellent appetite and is munching anything and everything in sight, so this is reassuring, but her quality of life is poor in other ways. I've increased water availability all around the big hutch/run, though I'm doubtful she's reaching it, so I've been syringing fluids in when I can, and dousing her veg/herb treats in water too.

Have I simply forgotten how dreadful EC is and how it looks? I'm struggling terribly with the idea that she can't be independent and that it seems to be worsening? Is this to be expected and is there anything else I can do?

Fiona


Hi there Fiona, yes I remember you :wave:

Sorry to heat about Flossie.

How has the EC been diagnosed? I say this because there are several conditions that mimic the hind leg paresis that you're seeing.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html

http://rabbit.org/hind-limb-weakness-in-the-rabbit/

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Differentials/paresis.htm


It could be arthritis or spinal damage in some way. One of my rabbits had a burst intervertebral disc which came up with exactly the symptoms you're describing.

Have you got a very savvy vet who can diagnose the issue or maybe do some X-rays if it's possible to see what's going on?
 
Hello Fiona

Has the Vet ruled out a spinal injury/disc prolapse/arthritis etc ? Is Flossie showing any other neurological symptoms eg head tilt, nystagmus (flicking eyes) ?

Whilst EC is of course a possibility I am wondering if there may be another explanation for Flossie's hind leg paresis

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Differentials/paresis.htm

Whilst the use of corticosteroids in Rabbits is controversial, there are some circumstances in which they can be of benefit, despite the potential risks (lowering of immune system, gastric ulceration, liver damage). Perhaps this is something to discuss with your Vet ?

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Dexamethasone.htm

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Prednisolone.htm

I am sorry to hear that Flossie is struggling now and I hope that her condition can improve sufficiently to enable her to have a better quality of life for her remaining time x

Hi Jane, hope you are well. She has head tilt and some tremors & urinary incontinence , so we're both thinking it's EC. I won't rule out investigations for disc collapse etc (and other causes) , though right now, I'm worried about her being sedated etc. The only recent change is her chest sounding a bit rattly/snuffly, so I'm worried she has something systemic going on. She has started on antibiotics For this. It's all a bit unclear and we're going back tomorrow morning. She's comfortable at the moment, munching her herbs and grass as normal and I've given her a small amount of oral syringed fluids and all her meds. I put a towel under her back end on the grass early to help her mobility,but she was toppling still. She's a lovely bunny and I fear I'm very close to the delicate decision of what her life is now like, especially as an older bun, and whether her suffering is too much.
 
EC is a rollercoaster ride. You are doing all the right things. Just keep going. Things should improve. I know it seems awful at the moment, but she is still mobile and managing to eat normally, which makes things a whole lot easier to manage. You could reduce her space a bit if she can't get up when she topples. Maybe using towels or puppy pads (or both) in 'her' area will keep her drier, cleaner, and more comfortable. Something like an underbed storage box or the base of an indoor 'rabbit cage' would be useful as her base, but still allow George access to her.

EC spores are shed in urine, so it is important to keep to a cleaning routine to prevent reinfection. Deep clean on days 21 and 28 of Panacur treatment is recommended.

Thank you. She's not particularly mobile right now I'm afraid, but eating everything in site. She's in a big large plastic dog bed in the large hutch and is sticking to this. Her little friend hops over to visit from time to time but is generally leaving her be. Thank you for your reply.
 
*waves* Really sorry to hear about Flossie. :( Hope you can get some improvement. x

Hi Sarah. Thank you. She's a gorgeous girl and reminds me so much in nature of my gorgeous Nell and Sumi. Except with a hair do like Bonnie Tyler
 
Hi there Fiona, yes I remember you :wave:

Sorry to heat about Flossie.

How has the EC been diagnosed? I say this because there are several conditions that mimic the hind leg paresis that you're seeing.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html

http://rabbit.org/hind-limb-weakness-in-the-rabbit/

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Differentials/paresis.htm


It could be arthritis or spinal damage in some way. One of my rabbits had a burst intervertebral disc which came up with exactly the symptoms you're describing.

Have you got a very savvy vet who can diagnose the issue or maybe do some X-rays if it's possible to see what's going on?

Hi MightyMax, thanks for your reply. From my own experience, I'm pretty convinced it's EC, but realise I could be wrong. I can arrange investigations though she's sounding quite snuffly (and on abx) so worried about what this entails. I will speak to my vet tomorrow morning . What was the outcome and treatment for your little friend with the burst intervertebral disc, if you don't mind me asking?
 
If she is falling over a lot then you could reduce her space down. You can also roll up towels/blankets and place them around the edges to act as bumpers. Flooring is also really important, so avoid anything slippy, uneven, soft and squishy. You want it to be solid and even but also something that she can grip to, carpet offcuts/rugs are perfect.

I've put some towel bumpers in now (thank you) and I bought lots of rubber grip mats the other day to line the hutch area as it was a bit slippy. I can't see it making much difference right now, but feel better that it is there.
 
Hi Jane, hope you are well. She has head tilt and some tremors & urinary incontinence , so we're both thinking it's EC. I won't rule out investigations for disc collapse etc (and other causes) , though right now, I'm worried about her being sedated etc. The only recent change is her chest sounding a bit rattly/snuffly, so I'm worried she has something systemic going on. She has started on antibiotics For this. It's all a bit unclear and we're going back tomorrow morning. She's comfortable at the moment, munching her herbs and grass as normal and I've given her a small amount of oral syringed fluids and all her meds. I put a towel under her back end on the grass early to help her mobility,but she was toppling still. She's a lovely bunny and I fear I'm very close to the delicate decision of what her life is now like, especially as an older bun, and whether her suffering is too much.

Ah, so there are some other symptoms going on and I completely understand your reluctance to subject her to any diagnostics that would require sedation. It could be that she has two concurrent problems-EC and a bacterial infection. As you probably know, bacterial respiratory tract infections can also include ear infections. Ear infections can cause vestibular symptoms eg the head tilt

http://www.veterinarywebinars.com/m...oads/2016/03/Study_Notes_Ear_Nose_Rabbits.pdf

With the Panacur and the abx the Vet has covered for both EC and bacterial infection, so that is good. And of course the anti-inflammatories are essential too. Is Flossie the last of your lovely Dutchies ?
 
Hi Sarah. Thank you. She's a gorgeous girl and reminds me so much in nature of my gorgeous Nell and Sumi. Except with a hair do like Bonnie Tyler

Aww... Had to snigger at the Bonnie Tyler though, as that's quite an image. Total eclipse of the bun. :D

Good to hear that she's still eating well. Has to be some sort of good sign.
 
Hi MightyMax, thanks for your reply. From my own experience, I'm pretty convinced it's EC, but realise I could be wrong. I can arrange investigations though she's sounding quite snuffly (and on abx) so worried about what this entails. I will speak to my vet tomorrow morning . What was the outcome and treatment for your little friend with the burst intervertebral disc, if you don't mind me asking?


You're welcome Fiona

You're instinct and experience may well be correct. However, it's worth considering other causes, especially as you've mentioned head tilt and infection. It could be connected with her ears, though not necessarily. I guess the vet will have looked into that possibility?

I wonder whether it's possible to do any of the diagnostics without sedation - the X-ray perhaps? That would show up what's going on inside the ear canal, and also the spine.

I understand your reluctance regarding sedation. It's a judgement call. I had to do that recently with a very snuffly bun as we just had to try and find out the cause of the problem. He was fine, but I know all these things take their toll of a rabbit's immune system. AS you know abx aren't always successful for snuffly things - have you tried/thought of nebulising?
 
Sadly, I have lost all of my Dutches now. The oldest, Nell, lived until she was nearly 13, and died just over 2 years ago.
My remaining buns are Flossie and George, Hattie and Hamish. Flossie is a lion head lop, with the most fantastic mane of silver. A beautiful, gentle little animal.
 
Sadly, I have lost all of my Dutches now. The oldest, Nell, lived until she was nearly 13, and died just over 2 years ago.
My remaining buns are Flossie and George, Hattie and Hamish. Flossie is a lion head lop, with the most fantastic mane of silver. A beautiful, gentle little animal.

Oh I am sorry about your Dutchies, I remember them well :cry: Flossie sounds to be a dear little soul :love:
 
Sadly, I have lost all of my Dutches now. The oldest, Nell, lived until she was nearly 13, and died just over 2 years ago.
My remaining buns are Flossie and George, Hattie and Hamish. Flossie is a lion head lop, with the most fantastic mane of silver. A beautiful, gentle little animal.


Sorry to hear this :(

13 years is such a good age to get to ... You have lovely names for your current buns :love:
 
My baby luna had ec. We went to trinity vets in maidstone kent. They gave her a different course of aggressive anti biotics the name of which eludes me. They gave us 2 more precious years our vet although good would have stuggled to provide. I dont know where you are if you can get to maidstone kent i would try.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk
 
My baby luna had ec. We went to trinity vets in maidstone kent. They gave her a different course of aggressive anti biotics the name of which eludes me. They gave us 2 more precious years our vet although good would have stuggled to provide. I dont know where you are if you can get to maidstone kent i would try.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


I think Fiona is in Scotland, so not much chance :(

Kind thought though, ravenmoore :)
 
My baby luna had ec. We went to trinity vets in maidstone kent. They gave her a different course of aggressive anti biotics the name of which eludes me. They gave us 2 more precious years our vet although good would have stuggled to provide. I dont know where you are if you can get to maidstone kent i would try.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk

Thank you. We are in central Scotland, but lucky enough to have a rabbit savvy vet or two around us. Xx
 
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