Abortion in rabbits

When I worked in a GP's surgery and before the 'morning after pill' became available some young women used abortion as their means of contraception. Ok they were always done very early on but I know of one person who had had SIX terminations and she was only 24.

There are always going to be exceptional situations where abortion really is the only option, in Humans and in Animals. But my PERSONAL opinion is overcrowding in Rescues is not a good enough reason to terminate an advanced pregnancy in a rabbit.

Janex

So when space runs out, if you're anti-abortion would you euthanise the babies once they're born or unrelated adult rabbits already in your care? Or you could let the mum raise the babies and then euthanise her and give her space to one of her offspring.

It sucks, it shouldn't be that way but that's a real life choice some rescue staff have to make. There is a limit to the amount of rabbits you can just 'squeeze one more in' with.

I think unless you are or have been in such a situation you really cannot judge others for terminating a pregnancy be it human or animal. As with many things, if you aren't directly involved you cannot possibly know how hard a decision it is to make.
I have worked in a kennels where i've taken older small furries home (with limited funds & NO room so they had to be kept in small cages until another rescue could take them) because a pregnant one has come in & space is needed & the manager has decided to euthanase the older long termers because she knew the youngsters once born would get a home quicker. Thats worse than terminating the pregnancy as far as im concerned.
I also have a couple of friends whose parents resent & one even despises them purely because they were an unwanted pregnancy, both friends are messed up in the head & it will haunt them forever.
(I know no one actually has judged yet, but just thought I'd add this!)

I took biology A-level and we dealt with human abortion at its most clinical.

It horrified all of us. Not abortion in general, but the later-stage abortions that are legal. The thing is, where do you draw the line? As medical technology improves and premature babies that survive get younger and younger, does this mean the upper limit for abortions should get earlier in response? Should it be when the heart starts beating? Should it be when a pain response is possible?

I personally don't see a need for late-term abortions unless there is serious medical danger to the mother if her pregnancy were to continue. You MUST have worked out you were pregnant before 3 months, so why have an abortion any later than this?

I was adopted but I'm still pro-choice. Immediately after my birth mother had me, she got pregnant again because of rubbish contraceptive advice (i.e. she thought she was being safe but in fact she wasn't). She had a very early-term abortion (I think 2 months-ish), and I'm glad she did. Imagine going through 2 unwanted and unplanned pregnancies before the age of 17! :shock:

AMETHYST

leanne said:

I personally am for abortion in people & animals if it is a neccessity for emotional, financial or health reasons.
I feel that it is the womans right to choose whether she feels ready to go through with a pregnancy or not, unwanted or not. Some women (a small minority) do use it as a means of contraception which is awful but at the end of the day they will have to live with the guilt for the rest of their lives.

In animals I think we as their carers have to make the decision, it may not be right morally for some people but I personally would have an early pregnancy aborted in any animal if its likely the babies will struggle to find a decent home. I'd rather they weren't brought into this world if I couldn't guarantee a caring home for life. Which is virtually never in my opinion!
But I have to say I wouldn't abort if the animal was in the last trimester of pregnancy.
Ive was a vet nurse for 10 years so have been involved in alot & it isn't nice but at the same time you have to think of the future of those homeless animals.

Neuter all the way & hassle ANYONE who has a pet that isn't! I have no shame doing it! lol

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I agree 100%

As I said in my earlier post I don't have a problem with early abortions at all- that is not to say I am dismissing it as a trivial issue as it must be a very difficult, heartbreaking decision to make, but it is most certainly the right choice for many people.

The later stages of pregnancy are more of a grey area, but I am still not against it, I think its a really difficult issue and is not one where there is black and white, right or wrong.

i would rather not comment on human abortions , other than to say each case should be looked at seperatly , before a decision is made . i an not anti abortion , but neither am i pro abortion in the true sense . it should not be an automatic right , but Sometimes it should be an option .

As for buns .
i could never ask a vet to abort end of term babies . i would only do it if it was on a vets medical advice to save the mum .
i would however have an emergency spay done in the early stages .


Take Maisie and Grace . those of you who read the posts about their dead litters will know that it was not just upsetting for us but also for the poor buns involved . they were not in good enough condition to carry healthy babies and as a result Grace is still not recovered after giving birth to a dead litter .

we realy regret not sending these two buns for emergency spays .

Angie

Tamsin said:

So when space runs out, if you're anti-abortion would you euthanise the babies once they're born or unrelated adult rabbits already in your care? Or you could let the mum raise the babies and then euthanise her and give her space to one of her offspring.

It sucks, it shouldn't be that way but that's a real life choice some rescue staff have to make. There is a limit to the amount of rabbits you can just 'squeeze one more in' with.

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Maybe I am not qualified to have an opinion.
But I DO and it is 100% AGAINST late abortions in Rabbits unless the life of the Doe is at risk
I just could not be any part of what I PERSONALLY consider the delibertate killing of healthy kits.
Very early emergency spaying is another issue, although my PERSONAL anti-abortion views are that I could not do it.
We can only act on our own beliefs which may well be very different from another individual in the same situation. Euthanising the kits once born or the Doe to make room is just not in my mindset.
As stated I am not speaking from experience, just from strongly held personal beliefs My comments are just expressing those beliefs and not critising or judging those whose views differ.


Janex

An interesting thread.

Having just today got a call from someone who has found three buns and a guinea in a small wood near us, and now having a doe here that has been running with two bucks.

I'm afraid that on tuesday I will be having a chat with the vet re whether he would advise an emergency spay.

My rabbit hutches are now all full, I don't have the space for a litter to be born, but if my vet tells me that she's too far gone then I will have no choice than to let her have them. On the other hand if not then she will be booked for a spey.
Sometimes we have no choice in these decissions though. We once had a doe come in that had never been with another rabbit, she was sent for a routine neuter only for them to find her days away from giving birth when they opened her up.Those babies where raised by the vet nurse I won't go into details as to how that came about but lets say the nurse was out of order and those rabbits should have come home with their mother.

I will only take the chance with neutering up to 2.5 weeks after mating after that there is too much risk of the doe haemorrhaging during the spey and her life being at risk aswell.

I do understand what some of you are saying but there are too many rabbits out there and too few funds to go amounst them that's the truth so as Tam says what choice do some of us have. If I had a money tree or someway of caring for them propably then it may be a different matter.

Having said that I have a home to empty of 15-20 rabbits that have all been in-breeding. None of them are sexed propably so when their time comes the does as they come in are going straight for emergency speys.Sad but for their own good it needs to be done. :? :shock:

Just to add to Tam and a few others points have a look at this...

Please read it all before you pass comment, as it will strike home more if you do!

http://www.rngp.org/index-never.shtml

That really did hit home.

Mr T said:

Just to add to Tam and a few others points have a look at this...

Please read it all before you pass comment, as it will strike home more if you do!

http://www.rngp.org/index-never.shtml

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My heart goes out to all who have to make such decisions. HOWEVER, there is NO WAY on earth I could knowingly authorise the destruction of a healthy rabbit.
PLEASE dont judge me for this just as I do not judge those who feel they have to go through with such a tragic act.
I know I am not on the frontline re Rescue work but I do contribute financially and foster 'impossible to re-home Buns'
I am really VERY VERY distressed by this thread now because I feel I cannot do more to help and also I cannot agree with what appears to be a general opinion re late spay (abortions) for rabbits.

Janex

I have to say that currently being in the 'accident' position myself that I have taken the decision to have both Georgie & Jem emergency spayed. Unfortunately they weren't spayed when we got them and we have had no choice but to keep them side by side with Smurf, with a didvide down the middle. Unfortunately he learned to jump the divide a little more quickly than we had hoped and once figured it out refused to stay on his own side. We don't actually 'know' that he has done anything, but to us it is not worth the risk. We had always intended to get them spayed, in a ocuple of months when we had the money, as it is we've had to bring it forward and we'll find the money from somewhere. Our 5 rabbits already occupy a lot of our time and we don't have the time to give to any babies that could result. Knowing how many rabbits are in rescue already it would not be fair to bring any more babies into the world knowing full well we would struggle to give them the attention they would deserve and also how hard it would be to find homes for them. From our point of view there are enough rabbits needing homes without us adding to the burden. Yes we should have got the girls spayed earlier, but like I said, unfortunately finances have not allowed us. I believe that in this situation we have made the right decision.

I dont think any vet would do a late spay unless the doe was in danger. I agree with tamsin early termination has to be the better option. An early spay the babys are not fully formed, the same with human terminations.I cannot see the point of brining an unwanted baby into the world wether human or animal. What kind of life would it have.Just my point of veiw. ive been in the position and i opted for termination and have never regreted it for a min.Children and animals should be wanted loved and cared for. If there not going to get that then not to be born has to be better. Sorry if this affends anyone. val

I am guessing this thread was started because of my comments on another thread the other day. In the past I have frequently taken on many stray rabbits via the RSPCA and otherwise, obviously in those situations we do not know if the rabbit has been with other rabbits, chances of being pregnant etc. I have always and would always get them neutered straight away, if when they are opened up my vet finds babies, he will still spay them. Unless I know a doe is heavily pregnant I would always get them spayed immediatly. Unless you are in rescue you may probably never understand our logic in this but we are not doing it to be cruel. Often in the busiest "dumping" times you can get dozens of phone calls a day asking to take in unwanted rabbits, how can you possibly help even a small dent of them if you always let does that have just been mated carry their babies to full term? It is not easy as it is to find homes for rabbits, especially when many of them need not have been born in the first place if early spaying had gone ahead.
Let me put a different perspective on it, if you have a brother and sister living side by side and they accidently mate, considering the increased likelyhood of problems because of inbreeding, surely it is worth getting the doe spayed straight away?
I will never understand rescues that dont get rabbits spayed straight away if they know they have only just been mated, especially when they complain they are always full, these sort of problems can so easily be prevented :roll:

Pro spaying. Pro abortion. After my own experiences, I would never expect any animal or human to go through the h**l of a pregnancy.

Guilt can be dealt with later.

It's possible I have issues. :?

Although I can see the other point of view, I am with Cheryl and Angie on this one. As mean as it sounds, there are just too many bunnies needing homes already without more being brought into the world when it can be avoided.

In an ideal world there would be homes for every rabbit and these decisions wouldn't have to be made. It's very sad.

I was on the fence about this issue until I had the huge influx of pregnant mums. I didn't like the thought of doing it, but neither did I criticise those who felt they needed to.

Now I have had to spey does who quite likely were pregnant, although babies could not yet be felt. The ones I could feel I let carry on to term. Incidentally one of these litters died as their young mum wasn't too good at her job And the other young mum had to be PTS as she prolapsed her bladder I am now hand rearing her litter. If I had had these two speyed the does would both probably be fine. Whether the babies survive or not now is yet to be seen. But I wouldn't have been willing to do that and the vet said that the point at which they can be felt is the line of whether or not it is safe for the mother, apart from the consideration of the babies.

I am now having to turn rabbits away as I am so full. To let a doe carry an early pregnancy on seems to me to be unfair to those other rabbits out there that need rescue space.

As for abortion in humans, I think that it is a necessary evil. No child should be born if it is not wanted, to a mother incapable of looking after it, as that is a dreadful fate, worse than not being born. But it shouldn't be allowed after 3 months unless the mother will die otherwise. Three months ought to be enough time to make the decision if the woman is well supported, and she should be, including being given the information about how she is likely to feel about it later in life - ie guilty and sad and possibly left childless and heart torn, as well as the information about how difficult it is to bring up a child. Not an easy choice, or decision.

doorkeeper said:

I was on the fence about this issue until I had the huge influx of pregnant mums. I didn't like the thought of doing it, but neither did I criticise those who felt they needed to.

Now I have had to spey does who quite likely were pregnant, although babies could not yet be felt. The ones I could feel I let carry on to term. Incidentally one of these litters died as their young mum wasn't too good at her job And the other young mum had to be PTS as she prolapsed her bladder I am now hand rearing her litter. If I had had these two speyed the does would both probably be fine. Whether the babies survive or not now is yet to be seen. But I wouldn't have been willing to do that and the vet said that the point at which they can be felt is the line of whether or not it is safe for the mother, apart from the consideration of the babies.

I am now having to turn rabbits away as I am so full. To let a doe carry an early pregnancy on seems to me to be unfair to those other rabbits out there that need rescue space.

As for abortion in humans, I think that it is a necessary evil. No child should be born if it is not wanted, to a mother incapable of looking after it, as that is a dreadful fate, worse than not being born. But it shouldn't be allowed after 3 months unless the mother will die otherwise. Three months ought to be enough time to make the decision if the woman is well supported, and she should be, including being given the information about how she is likely to feel about it later in life - ie guilty and sad and possibly left childless and heart torn, as well as the information about how difficult it is to bring up a child. Not an easy choice, or decision.

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I agree with everything you say apart from abortion date. Some women don't know they're pregnant until 10-12 weeks. Factor in, them being in denial/a teenager/completely terrified/on the NHS & you've got someone over the 3 months. Although I think that abortion at an age where the baby could survive outside the womb might not be the greatest thing, I think up until that age , there should be freedom of choice.