Andi Boy of Destiny!
Warren Scout
kimbun's mum said:
You're a saint.
I'll do the same for any rogue bottles of wine.
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My Rabbit Junkie
- Thread starter Toby
- Start date
You're a saint.
I'll do the same for any rogue bottles of wine.
Ok so I am a really bad bunny owner and should be banned from owning rabbits or any other animal!!!.
For g o d sake - I think people know their rabbits better then anyone else! And as for rabbits not being intelligent? Are you having a laugh?? They are more intelligent then us in regards to food lol. It is humans that eat rubbish, drink rubbish and smoke g o d knows what, and they do it on their own terms! All I am saying is that a small little peace "now and again" is not harmful. I am not talking about a 500g bar of Galaxy or a Chinese takeaway.
Emma (Toby) you are a fantastic bunny mummy and don't you dare think anything different. If you weren't a great mummy Toby wouldn't still be going strong at 13 very healthy and happy!! 
I understand the comments about being careful with human food but the special rabbit choccis/milk drops when given as a treat now and then as a "treat" not every day is fine. I give Darcy a treat. xxxxxxx
I understand the comments about being careful with human food but the special rabbit choccis/milk drops when given as a treat now and then as a "treat" not every day is fine. I give Darcy a treat. xxxxxxx
Andi Boy of Destiny!
Warren Scout
Toby said:
I neither said nor implied that at any point.
I disagree - or, at least, I can't agree with such a sweeping statement. The people we got Boscov from didn't feed him hay. Did they know their rabbit better than anyone else? No. This is the same attitude that people have about their own bodies - that they understand them better than any scientist or doctor - and it's a complete fallacy. Saying that a bit of chocolate isn't harmful proves my point exactly.
Then why do they eat chocolate, when its harmful effects on rabbits are so well documented? Rabbits are not highly intelligent. They don't need to be, so they never evolved to be. They are successful by breeding very fast and having relatively high rates of mutation, not by solving complex puzzles or having a great grasp of nutrition.
And I am disagreeing with you; I've stated my reasons and I believe they are well founded. However, I am rapidly realising that this is going to turn into yet another discussion where emotional responses take over from rationality, and to be honest I don't have the patience.
We all know that chocolate is harmful to rabbits. The fact that a particular individual rabbit has consumed chocolate with no obvious ill effects is utterly irrelevant - you simply cannot dispute that the rabbit digestive system is not set up to deal with most of the constituents, and in particular the high fat and sugar content.
kimbun's mum
Banned
That is nice that Bridget is getting veggies as a "treat", Romy.
The fact is 'though veggies in moderation are fine, chocolate is not.
It is bunny owners that feel psychologically that treating is good - because we want out buns to feel that we love them. However kindness can kill.
Bunnies and other animals do not rquire treats - they are a feel good factor for us humans.
You can make you bunny feel special and loved in many other ways.
It is great that Toby has reached 13 but in fairness to any new Forum members I think we need to be totally clear on this point.
lol Pam
The fact is 'though veggies in moderation are fine, chocolate is not.
It is bunny owners that feel psychologically that treating is good - because we want out buns to feel that we love them. However kindness can kill.
Bunnies and other animals do not rquire treats - they are a feel good factor for us humans.
You can make you bunny feel special and loved in many other ways.
It is great that Toby has reached 13 but in fairness to any new Forum members I think we need to be totally clear on this point.
lol Pam
My rabbits have treats,new toys different veg and herbs, not chocolateToby said:Thanks Romy,
Thats all I meant as a treat we all like to treat our buns don't we
my rabbits especially claude will eat anything when claude was younger he jumped on my knee and ran off with a tuna sandwhich and ate some of it but i was so worried it would harm him,i am very carefull where i leave things now i dont give any of my rabbits or piggies petshop treats as they are basically full of ****
All my lot get excited about there veggies comming morning and evening and they love there s/s food (only in small amounts)
When i got lilac she was hugely overweight my mum hasnt seem her since dec and i was so proud when she came round the other day and she said, oh wow lilac looks lovely now shes in beautifull condition!!!
kimbun's mum said:
I just thought i better say, in case anyone thinks i'm being cruel to Bridget, she has been with me a week (i didn't over-feed her myself) and weighs one stone and has been having poopy/wee mucky botty so I was advised lots of hay and water is the best way forward for a while. I'm not witholding veggies to be mean!!
Oh please - not the chocolate/dairy products debate again!!!
I thought we had been there and done that a few weeks ago :roll:
Rabbits are strict herbivores, designed to eat grass, grass, more grass, along with other plants. Their gut system is extremely delicate and can be so easily upset by foods which they are unable to digest properly.
You cannot begin to compare rabbits with humans where food and 'treats' are concerned. Humans can get away with a certain amount of 'naughty' foods and remain healthy. For rabbits it's much more serious. It only takes a small amount of dairy products for them to develop stasis. They do not have the enzymes necessary to digest milk products, so feeding them things like milk drops, yoghurt drops and chocolate will upset their delicate gut flora. Chocolate products sold as rabbit or dog treats do not contain the chemical in regular chocolate that causes heart problems in dogs and rabbits, but they all contain milk!
Some rabbits will be lucky and won't succumb to stasis when given these foods, but that's just what it is - pure luck! Just as some people smoke 40 a day all their adult lives and might live to be 100!
It really isn't worth risking your rabbit's health, for the sake of potentially dangerous 'treats'. There are plenty of other things that can be given as treats. Small pieces of fruit are always well received by bunnies. Too much would be bad news because of the sugar content, but it's a natural food which can be digested (and enjoyed!) by rabbits.
Just for the record, all of my rabbits have been long-lived. They have all been rescues and some have come to me in very poor health. A good diet consisting of lots of hay, fresh veggies and a tiny amount of good quality pellet food has turned their lives around and they all thrive on it.
We have a responsibility to do what's best for our furry companions, and allowing them to eat chocolate, milk products and other unhealthy foods is not in their best interests!
Jenny
I thought we had been there and done that a few weeks ago :roll:
Rabbits are strict herbivores, designed to eat grass, grass, more grass, along with other plants. Their gut system is extremely delicate and can be so easily upset by foods which they are unable to digest properly.
You cannot begin to compare rabbits with humans where food and 'treats' are concerned. Humans can get away with a certain amount of 'naughty' foods and remain healthy. For rabbits it's much more serious. It only takes a small amount of dairy products for them to develop stasis. They do not have the enzymes necessary to digest milk products, so feeding them things like milk drops, yoghurt drops and chocolate will upset their delicate gut flora. Chocolate products sold as rabbit or dog treats do not contain the chemical in regular chocolate that causes heart problems in dogs and rabbits, but they all contain milk!
Some rabbits will be lucky and won't succumb to stasis when given these foods, but that's just what it is - pure luck! Just as some people smoke 40 a day all their adult lives and might live to be 100!
It really isn't worth risking your rabbit's health, for the sake of potentially dangerous 'treats'. There are plenty of other things that can be given as treats. Small pieces of fruit are always well received by bunnies. Too much would be bad news because of the sugar content, but it's a natural food which can be digested (and enjoyed!) by rabbits.
Just for the record, all of my rabbits have been long-lived. They have all been rescues and some have come to me in very poor health. A good diet consisting of lots of hay, fresh veggies and a tiny amount of good quality pellet food has turned their lives around and they all thrive on it.
We have a responsibility to do what's best for our furry companions, and allowing them to eat chocolate, milk products and other unhealthy foods is not in their best interests!
Jenny
I completely agree with you Wabbit, chocolate even in small quantities is potentially putting your rabbit at risk of getting gut statis which is fatal in many cases.
It is not a treat if it places your rabbit in risk of being unwell.
With some many other healthy options , such as fresh fruit, herbs etc, which the bunnies love just as much as chocolate, I feel it unnecessary to give rabbits our human junk food.
The other problem is that the gut statis risk aside, you are giving your rabbit the TASTE for sweet stuff, and like us humans they become addicted to the wrong food types.
I wish you could all visit the Sanctuary and see the bunnies here, as just like Wabbit we have turned poorly bunnies health around by diet alone.
I do not feel the bunnies are lacking anything by not giving them treats we enjoy ourselves, and the bunnies are all happy and content so it speaks for itself.
It is our resposnsibility entirely to give the bunnies the right (and safe) diet, they are depending upon us.
You only have to experience one rabbit having serious gut statis, and then it is a wake up call to have fragile their digestive system is, far more so than a cat or dog(argueably), and more rabbits die from digestive upsets than anything else, in my 30 years experience anyway.
It is difficult if you only have only had a couple of bunnies, you need lots of bunnies to compare to be able to observe the true impact of good and bad diets :wink:
A treat is fine, as long as it is the right treat. :wink:
It is not a treat if it places your rabbit in risk of being unwell.
With some many other healthy options , such as fresh fruit, herbs etc, which the bunnies love just as much as chocolate, I feel it unnecessary to give rabbits our human junk food.
The other problem is that the gut statis risk aside, you are giving your rabbit the TASTE for sweet stuff, and like us humans they become addicted to the wrong food types.
I wish you could all visit the Sanctuary and see the bunnies here, as just like Wabbit we have turned poorly bunnies health around by diet alone.
I do not feel the bunnies are lacking anything by not giving them treats we enjoy ourselves, and the bunnies are all happy and content so it speaks for itself.
It is our resposnsibility entirely to give the bunnies the right (and safe) diet, they are depending upon us.
You only have to experience one rabbit having serious gut statis, and then it is a wake up call to have fragile their digestive system is, far more so than a cat or dog(argueably), and more rabbits die from digestive upsets than anything else, in my 30 years experience anyway.
It is difficult if you only have only had a couple of bunnies, you need lots of bunnies to compare to be able to observe the true impact of good and bad diets :wink:
A treat is fine, as long as it is the right treat. :wink:
Romy said:kimbun's mum said:
I just thought i better say, in case anyone thinks i'm being cruel to Bridget, she has been with me a week (i didn't over-feed her myself) and weighs one stone and has been having poopy/wee mucky botty so I was advised lots of hay and water is the best way forward for a while. I'm not witholding veggies to be mean!!
and i bet romy bridget did not get that over weight by eating hay!!!!!
Can people that are just nagging at me get off my case!!! I am really getting annoyed. I didn't force feed toby to eat chocolate - if you got back and READ my first post you will see that he nicked my chocolate and ran off with it. I didn't hand feed it.
At the moment reading this thread all of you are trying to say I am a bad bunny mummy. Toby has eaten chocolate, and we are talking about a little nip off the corner type of size. I really think I would know if it was harming him - do you really think I would feed my rabbit stuff that was harming him??? If you do them just what are you Impliying? I am affraid I don't balieve everything read about rabbits and having done it has not been harmful. That MIGHT be because his only had a "tiny" bit "now and again". People don't know other peoples rabbit's, you wouldn't know the first thing about what Toby like and dislikes....and it's the same with other peoples buns.
At the moment reading this thread all of you are trying to say I am a bad bunny mummy. Toby has eaten chocolate, and we are talking about a little nip off the corner type of size. I really think I would know if it was harming him - do you really think I would feed my rabbit stuff that was harming him??? If you do them just what are you Impliying? I am affraid I don't balieve everything read about rabbits and having done it has not been harmful. That MIGHT be because his only had a "tiny" bit "now and again". People don't know other peoples rabbit's, you wouldn't know the first thing about what Toby like and dislikes....and it's the same with other peoples buns.
Toby said:
emma i dont think anyone is implying you are a bad bunny mum at all, i think they are just saying for any new forum members that feeding rabbits chocolate is a bad idea thats all, only the other day kymber had managed to get into the cupboard and steal a chocolate covered biscult will no apparent ill effects thank god, but i must admit i was worried!!!
Eve x
Toby said:
aawww Emma, I think you have got the wrong end of the stick, no one is criticising you in the least, it is not a personalised debate.
We know you love Toby and care for him brilliantly
My rabbits have run off with biscuits snatched from my hands on occcasions too, so we have no reason to be judgmental of you :wink:
It is important to present the message that chocolate is bad for bunnies in whatever quantities, I think it is positive that we can discuss these important issues, I am sorry if you feel anyone is attacking you.
I think if you read through the threads again, you will see that this is far from the truth.
The only persons message I am annoyed at is "Andi, Boy of Destiny" - I didn't like the: "I find it hard to believe that anyone would think that chocolate is a suitable substance to feed to a rabbit." because that was aimed at me.
I would not recommend anyone feeding their rabbits anything that is different - especially if you are wary. However I know It won't kill Toby, the only thing that will kill Toby now is old age.
I would not recommend anyone feeding their rabbits anything that is different - especially if you are wary. However I know It won't kill Toby, the only thing that will kill Toby now is old age.
bunnylove said:Romy said:kimbun's mum said:
I just thought i better say, in case anyone thinks i'm being cruel to Bridget, she has been with me a week (i didn't over-feed her myself) and weighs one stone and has been having poopy/wee mucky botty so I was advised lots of hay and water is the best way forward for a while. I'm not witholding veggies to be mean!!
and i bet romy bridget did not get that over weight by eating hay!!!!!
I think it was mostly down to the fact they didn't let her out of her hutch for 2 and half years!! They were also feeding her russell rabbit rubbish.
Don't worry Toby, I've now received pm messages from someone on this thread telling me (nicely) that they think I'm wrong to have Bridget on a diet as she should be 16lbs not a stone! :shock: I'll hopefully find out which is right soon!! :roll: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Romy said:bunnylove said:Romy said:kimbun's mum said:
I just thought i better say, in case anyone thinks i'm being cruel to Bridget, she has been with me a week (i didn't over-feed her myself) and weighs one stone and has been having poopy/wee mucky botty so I was advised lots of hay and water is the best way forward for a while. I'm not witholding veggies to be mean!!
and i bet romy bridget did not get that over weight by eating hay!!!!!
I think it was mostly down to the fact they didn't let her out of her hutch for 2 and half years!! They were also feeding her russell rabbit rubbish.
Don't worry Toby, I've now received pm messages from someone on this thread telling me (nicely) that they think I'm wrong to have Bridget on a diet as she should be 16lbs not a stone! :shock: I'll hopefully find out which is right soon!! :roll: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
oh poor darling some people can be so cruel to buns!!
bunnylove said:Romy said:bunnylove said:Romy said:kimbun's mum said:
I just thought i better say, in case anyone thinks i'm being cruel to Bridget, she has been with me a week (i didn't over-feed her myself) and weighs one stone and has been having poopy/wee mucky botty so I was advised lots of hay and water is the best way forward for a while. I'm not witholding veggies to be mean!!
and i bet romy bridget did not get that over weight by eating hay!!!!!
I think it was mostly down to the fact they didn't let her out of her hutch for 2 and half years!! They were also feeding her russell rabbit rubbish.
Don't worry Toby, I've now received pm messages from someone on this thread telling me (nicely) that they think I'm wrong to have Bridget on a diet as she should be 16lbs not a stone! :shock: I'll hopefully find out which is right soon!! :roll: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
oh poor darling some people can be so cruel to buns!!
I know!!
they have no idea what they've missed out on - big time. She is so loving and lovely. Bless her little cotton wee tail!! :lol: xxxxxxThis is becoming very tiresome, but I am worried for any rabbits whose owners might think it's ok to feed chocolate or other dairy products, such as milk or yoghurt drops.
It isn't a case of 'knowing your own rabbit', it is a fact that rabbits cannot digest these substances, and I don't know why some people do not believe this!
I have posted this link before, but would urge everyone to have a look. It was written by a rabbit specialist vet, who is very well respected:
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Food/yogurt.htm
Please let's not go into the 'personal attacks' and 'nagging' accusations - all I am concerned about is the health and well-being of rabbits. Isn't that the most important issue here?
It isn't a case of 'knowing your own rabbit', it is a fact that rabbits cannot digest these substances, and I don't know why some people do not believe this!
I have posted this link before, but would urge everyone to have a look. It was written by a rabbit specialist vet, who is very well respected:
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Food/yogurt.htm
Please let's not go into the 'personal attacks' and 'nagging' accusations - all I am concerned about is the health and well-being of rabbits. Isn't that the most important issue here?
