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Thread: PLEASE HELP Dental problems and not eating:Vet suggested potential PTS

  1. #21
    Wise Old Thumper SarahP's Avatar
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    If you're syringing, I would want to syringe water rather than food, as that can encourage eating (plus it's so much easier).

    You must be so stressed.
    Sarah.

    RIP Dusty and Clover bunnies xxx
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by InspectorMorse View Post
    Did the Vet not give him any fluids under his skin or suggest he was admitted for IV fluids and medicating ?

    If you don’t already do so offer him water from a bowl. Some Sick Rabbits are more likely to drink slightly warm water or water with a dash of unsweetened fruit juice in it.
    Yes she did give him fluids by injection, but said to get 10ml into him every hour, but she didnt say how long to do that for so maybe I've done enough for now?

    He has water in a bowl but warming slightly and adding juice is a great idea! thank you!

  3. #23
    Warren Veteran bunny momma's Avatar
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    I give sub q fluids-under the skin with bag and supplies from vet in addition to oral fluids.
    Experiment with consistency of critical care. My bunnies are small and I only put a half cc of recovery food in their mouth and let them swallow. It takes less time because bunnny does not fight. Try to put cc innother side of mouth in case one side sore.
    Otjers gave you a lot of good advice, so I will add more vibes for improvement.

  4. #24
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    How is he doing now? I would make sure he is well topped up before bed, and check on him through the night if he's still not eating.

  5. #25

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    He's still refusing to eat anything himself. He's done quite a few very small and dark poos (over 20) so things are moving, he just doesnt have appetite and I dont feel like I'm getting enough in him. I've tried the fruity water and he's not interested so it's still force feeding. I'll try my best to top him up before bed and will get up through the night to check on him. He is nibbling at grass but again I think he's biting it and dropping and isn't touching any of the food or treats that are out for him. He's now had his 4th dose of antibiotics so really hoping he'll start to feel relief from that. How much would you think would be a good amount to get in him before bed? and how long to leave him over night? I can't find any advice online about what to do over night.

  6. #26
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    I would aim to feed him every 4 hours with as much as you can get into him, or more often if you feel you can - but you also need sleep to get through the day shifts. The more he eats, the better he should feel, so it's a vicious circle at the moment. An empty gut isn't good, but you have to balance what you can get down him without stressing him too much or causing him to inhale instead of swallow it. Putting the syringe in the side of the mouth is better than aiming for the front as you are getting food in his mouth without forcing it down his throat. I also try to give meds about half an hour before food. That way, pain relief has had time to start working and you know the meds have gone in, rather than being spat out with food.

    Trying to eat grass and producing some poo is a good sign.

    I tend to make up a full day's worth of critical care in a small jar so I know how much I should be feeding overall, rather than making up small amounts at a time as you can lose track (especially when you are tired and worried). Keep it in the fridge and add a bit of hot water to the portion you are feeding to warm it through. It also thickens as it stands, so probably needs thinning a bit more as you use it. I always aim for at least 20ml of food per session, more if they will take it (mine are generally smaller bunnies up to 2kg).

    Guidance on feeding rate for Critical Care:
    http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vet.../critical_care
    It says to give 3 tablespoons powder / kg body weight daily. 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons = 9g.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimmer View Post
    I would aim to feed him every 4 hours with as much as you can get into him, or more often if you feel you can - but you also need sleep to get through the day shifts. The more he eats, the better he should feel, so it's a vicious circle at the moment. An empty gut isn't good, but you have to balance what you can get down him without stressing him too much or causing him to inhale instead of swallow it. Putting the syringe in the side of the mouth is better than aiming for the front as you are getting food in his mouth without forcing it down his throat. I also try to give meds about half an hour before food. That way, pain relief has had time to start working and you know the meds have gone in, rather than being spat out with food.

    Trying to eat grass and producing some poo is a good sign.

    I tend to make up a full day's worth of critical care in a small jar so I know how much I should be feeding overall, rather than making up small amounts at a time as you can lose track (especially when you are tired and worried). Keep it in the fridge and add a bit of hot water to the portion you are feeding to warm it through. It also thickens as it stands, so probably needs thinning a bit more as you use it. I always aim for at least 20ml of food per session, more if they will take it (mine are generally smaller bunnies up to 2kg).

    Guidance on feeding rate for Critical Care:
    http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vet.../critical_care
    It says to give 3 tablespoons powder / kg body weight daily. 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons = 9g.

    Brilliant, thank you! I'm just so worried about getting enough fluid into him as he is showing no interest in water. He just had a little nibble on some banana though. Not much but it's at least an interest in food which is some progress. 4 hours sounds like a good balance for overnight (I cant imagine me sleeping really so will probably be more likely trying to force myself to leave him alone than to be trying to get up to feed him!), hopefully with longer breaks he'll want to eat. Thank you <3

  8. #28
    Mama Doe Scrappy's Little Helper's Avatar
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    I'm really sorry Ian is so poorly. You've had some really good advice already but I just wanted to give my input on what I'd do in your situation.

    I'd follow the feeding regime Shimmer has suggested. It's frequent enough to keep the gut moving but it allows them a sufficient break in between. Try and time the CC feeds so you're doing it at the same time you're giving medicine, and that way you won't need to handle him more than necessary. I'd also syringe feed some water at the same time.

    As Jane mentioned, the vetergesic will have had a marked sedative effect. Bunnies on vetergesic are so "flat" that it looks like they've given up. You probably won't get a true idea of how he's really feeling until it's out of their system. I think they say it should only take about 8 hours. However for one of my bunnies it can take as long as 72 hours.

    Finally, I think you still have another throw of the dice when it comes to treatment. As mentioned above, injectable penicillin is a very effective antibiotic. Before making a decision to PTS, I would ask the vet if you can try it for a week first. I'd also ask for the highest dose of metacam for his weight so he has adequate analgesic cover. Often that in itself can be enough to trigger a significant turnaround. The advantage of metacam is that, unlike vetergesic, it doesn't have a sedative effect.

    Good luck. I really hope that Ian is able to turn the corner.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrappy's Little Helper View Post
    I'm really sorry Ian is so poorly. You've had some really good advice already but I just wanted to give my input on what I'd do in your situation.

    I'd follow the feeding regime Shimmer has suggested. It's frequent enough to keep the gut moving but it allows them a sufficient break in between. Try and time the CC feeds so you're doing it at the same time you're giving medicine, and that way you won't need to handle him more than necessary. I'd also syringe feed some water at the same time.

    As Jane mentioned, the vetergesic will have had a marked sedative effect. Bunnies on vetergesic are so "flat" that it looks like they've given up. You probably won't get a true idea of how he's really feeling until it's out of their system. I think they say it should only take about 8 hours. However for one of my bunnies it can take as long as 72 hours.

    Finally, I think you still have another throw of the dice when it comes to treatment. As mentioned above, injectable penicillin is a very effective antibiotic. Before making a decision to PTS, I would ask the vet if you can try it for a week first. I'd also ask for the highest dose of metacam for his weight so he has adequate analgesic cover. Often that in itself can be enough to trigger a significant turnaround. The advantage of metacam is that, unlike vetergesic, it doesn't have a sedative effect.

    Good luck. I really hope that Ian is able to turn the corner.

    Thank you! The vet gave us quite a bit of vetergesic to give him every 8 hours, though that was the second vet we saw (not our usual vet). Is a higher dose of metacam instead a better idea? I'm trying my best to get him to monday so we can speak to our vet again but of course would love to see some turnaround before then

  10. #30
    Wise Old Thumper InspectorMorse's Avatar
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    What is his urine output like ? Colour and quantity ?

    You mentioned the Vet noticed a smell coming from his mouth. Can you smell anything that resembles the smell of Pear Drops. From his mouth or from him in general ?

    Has the Vet taken a blood test to check his renal function ?

    If there has been no improvement at all over night I would contact a Vet today as IMO he needs to be on IV fluids as a supportive measure. Also, antibiotics given by injection are less likely to cause GI tract upset. Oral antibiotics can cause anorexia, which is obviously not helpful if the Rabbit is already reluctant to eat.


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