PLEASE HELP Dental problems and not eating:Vet suggested potential PTS

[Naomi1988]

What is his urine output like ? Colour and quantity ?

You mentioned the Vet noticed a smell coming from his mouth. Can you smell anything that resembles the smell of Pear Drops. From his mouth or from him in general ?

Has the Vet taken a blood test to check his renal function ?

If there has been no improvement at all over night I would contact a Vet today as IMO he needs to be on IV fluids as a supportive measure. Also, antibiotics given by injection are less likely to cause GI tract upset. Oral antibiotics can cause anorexia, which is obviously not helpful if the Rabbit is already reluctant to eat.

I'm not sure about his wee as he has absorbent litter but will try to get an idea. They said they checked his bloods pre surgery and everything seemed fine, and I asked because of his liver. He ate most of a lettuce leaf in the night (baby gem so not big but ate all the green off it) but is still not accepting food easily. He did happily take his metacam which he wouldn't yesterday so he might be feeling a little better? But I think he's immediately suspicious when the bigger syringe appears. I'll try smelling him (I hadn't noticed anything but will look out for a sweet smell).

My worry with the vets is it would have to be an emergency one and it's about an hour away and there's always a long wait which would be really stressful for him (our rabbit savvy vet is just round the corner) so really was hoping to get him to tomorrow morning then get him in to our vet. Of course my worry is she'll say he's been through enough and to let him go. I'm not sure how long is too long when it comes to force feeding as in the past he's picked up by now and started at least willingly taking the recovery

We luckily have a window to see in the room without bothering him and when I've looked he is lying comfortably (legs out to the side) and does move around the room a bit so I'm hoping that means he's not in too much discomfort?

[Shimmer]

The vetergesic will be making him really dopey and not interested in much.

Stasis episodes can last for a week or two, IME, and you should always keep going with gut meds until they are definitely eating and pooing normally for a couple of days. I always find that stopping too early is counter productive. If they are not eating by themselves, then you must supplement with syringe feeding. Rabbits can't go without eating as some of the effects are irreversible. So keep going with the syringe feeding. Hopefully he will eat a little more by himself today - a bit of banana, grass and lettuce is a start. Lettuce has lots of water in it, which could be helpful at the moment, although he need more fibre for bulk to keep his guts working.

[Naomi1988]

The vetergesic will be making him really dopey and not interested in much.

Stasis episodes can last for a week or two, IME, and you should always keep going with gut meds until they are definitely eating and pooing normally for a couple of days. I always find that stopping too early is counter productive. If they are not eating by themselves, then you must supplement with syringe feeding. Rabbits can't go without eating as some of the effects are irreversible. So keep going with the syringe feeding. Hopefully he will eat a little more by himself today - a bit of banana, grass and lettuce is a start. Lettuce has lots of water in it, which could be helpful at the moment, although he need more fibre for bulk to keep his guts working.

Thank you, that's reassuring. I guess it's that we need to fix the underlying cause of him not wanting to eat before he'll start again, I'm just hoping that that is the infection and the antibiotics will start to work and we'll see a difference. But I can tell he's more annoyed at me today

[Naomi1988]

If I can get him to tomorrow I will ask my vet about the penecillin as well, thank you all <3

[AnjaSanja]

That seems low dosage of pain meds. Brko is 1.3 kg and gets 0.5 ML of metacam 12 hours, and Novasul (metamizole) 0.2ml every 12 hours. He also gets 2 antibiotics every 24hrs 0.3ml of Efloran (metronidazol) and 0.3ml of Summamed (azimitrocin 40mg suspension).

It is too bad they did not doo skull x-rays. It very might be some abscess or need of tooth extraction.

Some buns eat CC better with 1ml syrenges (you need a lot of them). I found that feeding 3 times 25ml worked well for my boy. But do what is best for yours. I also put a small spoon of baby banana/apple baby food or 100% apple juice. Just to flavour the CC. And also some gut motility meds. Gentle belly massage. Dry forage, pellets (selective are great). Just have that available for when he decides to eat.

[Shimmer]

If I can get him to tomorrow I will ask my vet about the penecillin as well, thank you all <3

I would ask about reducing / removing the vetergesic and upping the metacam to maximum dose (twice a day) for a few days to see if that makes a difference. If recent blood results were Ok, there shouldn't be an issue. He will also be less dopey and may be more inclined to more normal behaviour. He also likes metacam. If it's that or consider PTS, I would be pushing for at least a trial week, and review after a few more days to see if it's working. It's still early days for the antibiotics and stasis, and he's feisty not 'flat', so hasn't given up - just needs some support for a while, then reassess his teeth, etc when he is brighter. And you are doing a good job with the nursing, which is an important factor.

I suspect the vet will want to continue with the course of antibiotics that he's already on, as that's standard practice - but there's no harm in asking about other options as well.

If you don't get an appointment tomorrow, you could talk to the vet on the phone about drug regieme changes (for pain relief).

I would resist any GA / sedation for a couple of weeks if possible (eg for X-rays) - he's had to go through a lot recently and needs to be well on his way back to normal before he goes through that again, unless it's an emergency, as it's likely to knock him back again.

[Naomi1988]

I would ask about reducing / removing the vetergesic and upping the metacam to maximum dose (twice a day) for a few days to see if that makes a difference. If recent blood results were Ok, there shouldn't be an issue. He will also be less dopey and may be more inclined to more normal behaviour. He also likes metacam. If it's that or consider PTS, I would be pushing for at least a trial week, and review after a few more days to see if it's working. It's still early days for the antibiotics and stasis, and he's feisty not 'flat', so hasn't given up - just needs some support for a while, then reassess his teeth, etc when he is brighter. And you are doing a good job with the nursing, which is an important factor.

I suspect the vet will want to continue with the course of antibiotics that he's already on, as that's standard practice - but there's no harm in asking about other options as well.

If you don't get an appointment tomorrow, you could talk to the vet on the phone about drug regieme changes (for pain relief).

I would resist any GA / sedation for a couple of weeks if possible (eg for X-rays) - he's had to go through a lot recently and needs to be well on his way back to normal before he goes through that again, unless it's an emergency, as it's likely to knock him back again.

Thank you! I'm pretty sure I'll get him in tomorrow, just not sure our vet is in but fingers crossed we can see her! It's really nice to hear you feel there is some hope and I agree about it being too much to put him under GA now. He's been through so much. I just blended up some apple and banana and he happily took that from a syringe (after his initial grunt of suspicion from syringes) so I used a 1 ml syringe, put a bit of that mix in, then mostly water, then finished with a bit more of the mix to get some water in him without forcing and he took 10ml before pulling it off me and chucking it. Hopefully that's a good sign?? He's also had a little nibble of some lettuce but not much and wont touch the herbs. I'm glad you've all said about the vetergesic because he does seem drowsy. I was worried it was pain because his eyes are very sleepy looking but his ears aren't generally suggesting discomfort. At the moment anyway. Thanks all again! It's nice to not feel alone in this hard journey!

[Shimmer]

Have you tried grated apple or carrot? Dandelion leaves usually go down well with mine, or celery leaves.

[Pets mum]

My dental bun didn't do well after vetergesic, it wiped her out for days, and took ages to get her to anything like normal, however I was never given vetergesic to administer at home. As others have said, as Ian is not flat, that is in itself a good sign. I appreciate how stressful this is for you, but you are doing a great job, and I'm sure Ian knows you are trying to help him. Lots of us have been in this position, so can empathise with you. Big hug xx

[Naomi1988]

My dental bun didn't do well after vetergesic, it wiped her out for days, and took ages to get her to anything like normal, however I was never given vetergesic to administer at home. As others have said, as Ian is not flat, that is in itself a good sign. I appreciate how stressful this is for you, but you are doing a great job, and I'm sure Ian knows you are trying to help him. Lots of us have been in this position, so can empathise with you. Big hug xx

Thank you! It's reassuring to hear people have had bunny's refuse food for this long and still get their appetite's back. He's had a nibble on a couple of dandelion heads but hasn't touched anything else on his own. Still having to force feed him recovery but he's not spitting it out like he was. I'm really hoping that the pain killer is part of the issue now and I can change it for more metacam tomorrow and see if that helps, but will see what the vet says first jic. It's hard to tell because obviously when we took him in he was pretty subdued so it could be the illness but fingers crossed it's more the painkillers now. At 11 he's due his antibiotics so that'll be 3 full days worth of doses so again really hoping they'll have an affect. The bottle says it's for gastrointestinal infections, but presumably it will treat it wherever it is? I just wish he'd eat something so I can at least say I've seen an improvement. In some ways I think I have but I might be clutching at straws. He's done a lot of poos tonight after doing non all day. They're all very small and dark but there's quite a lot of them.