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PLEASE HELP Dental problems and not eating:Vet suggested potential PTS

Hello all,

I didn't get to speak directly to the vet but she has prescribed more metochlopromide. I was going to call and check about cisapride (and still could?) but think it might be best to keep things as they are while he's stable and then have that as a follow up option if things change? Atm holding out hope that we start to see more of a change tomorrow when he's been on the ABs for a week. He's still nibbling on odd things so I think is not getting worse, and seems to be maintaining his weight. He is just obviously very frustrated and foot stampy about the feeding. Just wish we still had Puck to comfort him (and me!) <3
 
Hello all,

I didn't get to speak directly to the vet but she has prescribed more metochlopromide. I was going to call and check about cisapride (and still could?) but think it might be best to keep things as they are while he's stable and then have that as a follow up option if things change? Atm holding out hope that we start to see more of a change tomorrow when he's been on the ABs for a week. He's still nibbling on odd things so I think is not getting worse, and seems to be maintaining his weight. He is just obviously very frustrated and foot stampy about the feeding. Just wish we still had Puck to comfort him (and me!) <3

Further update: he's still not eating today. We couldnt get the usual litter that he's used to so we got a diffrrent kind of softer paper bedding which I noticed he was chewing on (even though he wont eat food!) so I've had to take that away. He's nibbling at hay but again hard to tell how much is going down. I've also just found some poo that is better in shape but the colour is greyish and there's mucus on it. some googling tells me this can be a sign of a rabbit going in or out of stasis so I'm hoping it's the latter? But as he's not eating himself yet should I be booking him in to the vets again? I've read it can be the result of anti-biotics but is it likely that this would happen after nearly a week on them if that was the cause? Poor bunny can't catch a break!
 
I'm not very knowledgeable of this but i'm sure I've read mucus is fairly normal for a bun with stasis (stasis is just slowing, so any bun with sub normal food consumption is in stasis, just not severely - obv rabbit guts can stop working altogether). The mucus suggests some inflammation I think
 
With Ian eating his litter I'm wondering if Boo's dried forage mix might temp him - its quite fragrant & a good variety of plants so something in there might appeal & be manageable for him. I'm happy to send you some if you wanted to try but totally get it if you don't want someone you don't know sending your beloved bunny weeds in the post
 
aww that's very kind of you! I've got a few different types of dried dandelion, plantain and herb salads and he smells them but then ignores them. Is there something similar to save you the bother? I'm just at a bit of a loss because the vet said it's not unusual to not see a a difference from ABs until a week and it's now been a week on them. And 6 days since he stopped eating and still not showing interest. I feel like he's nibbling less than he was on tuesday. Now he's pretty much just nibbling on hay (but doesnt seem to be eating much) and a tiny bit of herb if I really bother him with it.
 
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I've seen many a recommendation for antibiotics to be continued well over a week or 2, especially for abscesses & infection. Response times do seem hugely variable. Well I believe Boo's forage is loads tastier:lol: I'm quite obsessive about how I select & dry - I don't think you'd get that with commercial stuff. My buns def favour home dried over bought
 
My Raven chews newspaper into confetti as a first sign of teeth issues, though he does not eat it.
However, I had stasis bunnies eat litter in the past. Perhaps craving fiber?
Is the color of your bunnies poo from eating litter?
Sending vibes.
 
Don't be too disheartened by the fact that he doesn't seem to be responding to the antibiotic yet. As J&B says, sometimes you need a longer course to have any real effect. Or it may be that this isn't the right antibiotic for this particular infection.

My first bunny, Scrappy, got an infection from a blocked tear duct. She was given a week of baytril, then a week of septrin. Neither antibiotic made a difference. In the end it was penicillin that got on top of it. I think it's very similar to humans in that you may have to try different antibiotics until you get the right one for a particular infection.
 
Chewing paper can be a symptom of a sluggish cecum. Cisapride will help with that, as I previously mentioned.

You did the right thing by removing the paper litter as if he were to ingest it it can make problems with cecum motility worse

Metoclopramide can cause griping tummy pain, especially on high doses and if the stomach is only getting a limited amount of food going in

Personally I would prefer to request Cisapride

A Vitamin B12 injection too, which can be an effective appetite stimulant.
 
Don't be too disheartened by the fact that he doesn't seem to be responding to the antibiotic yet. As J&B says, sometimes you need a longer course to have any real effect. Or it may be that this isn't the right antibiotic for this particular infection.

My first bunny, Scrappy, got an infection from a blocked tear duct. She was given a week of baytril, then a week of septrin. Neither antibiotic made a difference. In the end it was penicillin that got on top of it. I think it's very similar to humans in that you may have to try different antibiotics until you get the right one for a particular infection.

There are general purpose (broad spectrum) anibiotics for different situations. If they are not working, you usually get a sensitivity test done to find the one that will work on the bacteria you have - that means knowing where the source is and being able to get a swab, otherwise it's still a bit of a stab in the dark. Injectable penicillin would probably be the next one in the cascade to try in any case. You can be shown how to do it at home, if it is prescribed. It must not be given orally or allowed to be ingested at all (ie from spillage or from the injection site), but it's easier than you think after the first couple of attempts.
 
I've seen many a recommendation for antibiotics to be continued well over a week or 2, especially for abscesses & infection. Response times do seem hugely variable. Well I believe Boo's forage is loads tastier:lol: I'm quite obsessive about how I select & dry - I don't think you'd get that with commercial stuff. My buns def favour home dried over bought

If you're happy to send some I'm sure he'd be very grateful! That's very kind of you!
 
There are general purpose (broad spectrum) anibiotics for different situations. If they are not working, you usually get a sensitivity test done to find the one that will work on the bacteria you have - that means knowing where the source is and being able to get a swab, otherwise it's still a bit of a stab in the dark. Injectable penicillin would probably be the next one in the cascade to try in any case. You can be shown how to do it at home, if it is prescribed. It must not be given orally or allowed to be ingested at all (ie from spillage or from the injection site), but it's easier than you think after the first couple of attempts.

Thank you! Yes, it's now been a week so I'm wondering if we need to get him in today to rethink things or try on monday. There's no sign of an actual problem inside his mouth, it was just the smell that suggested infection (it wasnt particularly strong either) so we wont be able to get a swab. He's hiding today which makes me think InspectorMorse might be right about the higher dose of metachlop causing him bother. I'll try calling to ask about cisapride but they might insist on seeing him first as my vet isnt in today :(
 
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If you're happy to send some I'm sure he'd be very grateful! That's very kind of you!

Sure. Its worth a try. Leaving for work shortly so if you can PM me your address I can put it in the post 1st class on the way out. he might hate it but worth a go
 
Is there any risk of changing from Recovery to Critical care? I know they're about the same and do a similar thing. Just wondering if a slightly different taste might be nicer for him after being given the same thing so much. Obviously don't want to change anything if it's likely to cause trouble, but if they can be used interchangeably I might give it a try
 
Is there any risk of changing from Recovery to Critical care? I know they're about the same and do a similar thing. Just wondering if a slightly different taste might be nicer for him after being given the same thing so much. Obviously don't want to change anything if it's likely to cause trouble, but if they can be used interchangeably I might give it a try

It should be fine. You could make your own liquid feed using the pellets he usually eats.Soak the pellets in boiled water, allow them to soften, mash them up and add more water to make it a consistency that you can get into a syringe. You can add some veg or fruit purée to make it tastier. I use the pouches of baby food that you can buy in Supermarkets. Ella’s Kitchen, Hipp of the Supermarket own brand.
 
Try also malt paste for rabbits (it wil not do harm) or Rodicare hairball, if you can get your hands on Rodicare appetite that would be nice, or rabbit B vitamin supplement too. Abscess are a pain to treat (they do need to be drained if they put puss on testing, they can get target antibiotics. It is not uncommon to have a bun 4-6 and more weeks on combination of antibiotics, NSAIDs. The main thing is that he starts to eat. By 7 day he should had interest in food. Even if it is only pellets, or CC mush, fresh veggies.

I would worry he is got something going on in his yaw, roots (abscess, rotting root) and that means surgical treatment.
 
Try also malt paste for rabbits (it wil not do harm) or Rodicare hairball, if you can get your hands on Rodicare appetite that would be nice, or rabbit B vitamin supplement too. Abscess are a pain to treat (they do need to be drained if they put puss on testing, they can get target antibiotics. It is not uncommon to have a bun 4-6 and more weeks on combination of antibiotics, NSAIDs. The main thing is that he starts to eat. By 7 day he should had interest in food. Even if it is only pellets, or CC mush, fresh veggies.

I would worry he is got something going on in his yaw, roots (abscess, rotting root) and that means surgical treatment.

Yeah he's still only interested in food occasionally. Like, every day he'll eat a bit of lettuce or a few fresh herbs. He also seems to be nibbling on hay but then wont touch pellets or other things he used to love. I'm just worried that it's unfair to put him through all of this when he's already lost his companion. Our vet is away until June 13th, and even before these complications, when we found out his teeth were growing really fast she said 'if at all possible try to time his dental when I'm here because he has more complex tooth problems' so I'd be even more worried about the combination of dental and other surgery. I was really hoping the antibitoics would work and they could do a scan when it's time to do a dental anyway but that's not looking likely. Would you all be pushing for Xray next? Or try another antibiotic first? I'm concerned that because when we went last week the vet we saw said to wait to see until monday (as in monday gone) and if not better then PTS. I think he's better than when she saw him but not much so I worry if I go back and say the anti-biotics aren't working that they'll say he's been through enough and say to PTS. Of course I don't want to be selfish and keep him going just for my sake but obviously if there's a chance he'll be back to himself and he can have a friend then it'll feel like it's worth it. But the longer it goes on the worse I feel for him :(
 
Consider giving gut motility meds shortly before syringe feeding so they are at their maximum effectiveness when he is being fed.
My vet encourages cisapride use too.
Sending vibes.
 
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