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Tilting head when eating 2-10: feeling better =)

Poor Casper and you :(
Completely understand your frustration, I would not be happy with that plan either:(
Can you consult another more specialized vet?
I don't understand how emeprid would cause the problems but yeah, metacam can cause gastritis and ulcers:(
Sending a million vibes for Casper and Sophie!
Thank you for the vibes and for understanding, Walli. :( I've been thinking of getting a second opinion at some other practice, but I don't actually know which vets around here know much about bunnies. I also don't really know how that would work, because it seems kind of rude to go to another practice? I don't know what the rules are in such a situation, and I don't want to offend my vets, because I've been with them for a really long time.
I hope Casper doesn't have gastritis or an ulcer. :( I wonder if the higher dose Metacam he's been getting for the past week and a half could be a problem... He's been on Metacam for about 4 years now, I think, and never had a problem, but maybe raising the dosage cause an issue...
 
I've been thinking of getting a second opinion at some other practice, but I don't actually know which vets around here know much about bunnies. I also don't really know how that would work, because it seems kind of rude to go to another practice? I don't know what the rules are in such a situation, and I don't want to offend my vets, because I've been with them for a really long time.
If you're paying for treatment rather than getting it free/subsidised, you should be absolutely able to go where you like, where you get the best care. I am a bit of a 'sticker' as well, my vets aren't 100% the best but they're pretty good and they're conveniently located. If I wasn't happy with anything I'd totally be getting a second opinion, if not moving on entirely. It's not rude, it's practical :) But I know how you feel!

The very best wishes for them both. My vet says that even with the 'risks', metacam 'longterm' is usually better than none, as the side effects are quite late developing and improve quality in the short term. I haven't heard about emeprid/metoclopramide causing longterm issues in rabbits, but the risks with metacam are well-known (although how well they're understood is a different matter, and I don't know about that).

I hope they're both doing OK.
 
Thank you for the vibes and for understanding, Walli. :( I've been thinking of getting a second opinion at some other practice, but I don't actually know which vets around here know much about bunnies. I also don't really know how that would work, because it seems kind of rude to go to another practice? I don't know what the rules are in such a situation, and I don't want to offend my vets, because I've been with them for a really long time.
I hope Casper doesn't have gastritis or an ulcer. :( I wonder if the higher dose Metacam he's been getting for the past week and a half could be a problem... He's been on Metacam for about 4 years now, I think, and never had a problem, but maybe raising the dosage cause an issue...

I understand it could feel a bit awkward taking him somewhere else but I don't think you will offend them or be rude at all! You are a paying customer and you can go somewhere else if you are not happy with the treatment :)
You and Casper deserves a treatment plan that you feel fine with:)
I have no idea which practices is specialized in rabbits in The Netherlands though:(
 
Emiprid can cause cramping. Please let you bunnies know it is bunny momma tested for their safety because I got it myself after abdominal surgeries.
When I used it long term in an older bunny he developed a movement disorder in his neck-a twitch. Similar to what humans can get. I never had this with any other bunnies and some were on it for months.

IMO withdrawing everything is unusual, especially syringe feeds and medicam. Though I once had a bunny who lost his appetite when he was given Medicam which I did not experience with other bunnies. Though both of yours were eating on Medicam. If they are concerned about ulcer, I would have expected them to add a medication to help heal/protect their stomach.

If they used carrots that were not grated/sliced thin the vets may have been testing to see if they could be tempted to eat a harder food than they would get with grass or other greens. Of course I would not give too much of any unfamiliar food to any bunny.

I would also be apprehensive about stopping syringe feeds since they give added fluids and help keep things moving. Though they are both still nibbling food /pooping so perhaps monitor them closely for any changes and restart if necessary.

Sending lots of healing vibes to Sophie and Casper. Sending you some gently hugs too.
 
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On the whole it seems Casper & Sophie has had excellent care at that practice so some of the vets must be good? But this one vet sounds a bit odd to say the least. I think if you come up with a plan that deviates from usual practice you should at least explain yourself. Is there any capacity to see a favourite vet there? I know its awkward when they need an emergency vet but it would be good to have that vet assigned to Sophie & Casper. I think with elderlies & long term ill having consistency of care is important. Would you feel confident speaking to practice manager & requesting this perhaps? I think their response might encourage me to leave or stay - depending how they dealt with it. You could nicely raise the issue that you work hard to keep S&C's diet as natural as possible & to cover that & give consistency you bring them appropriate food that was ignored in favour of rabbit appropriate stuff. If they defend carrots its a bit of a red flag perhaps

Hope they are both Ok, you too
 
Sending lots of vibes, it’s very difficult when a vet isn’t acting as you would expect.
 
Is Casper doing ok today?
Oh, that's kind of you to ask. He wasn't doing well this morning, back to barely eating and not moving much, so I called the vets and he's back on Emeprid, though his Metacam dosage is still half of what it has been this past week (his normal dosage before it was upped last week). He's eating some greens now, so that's better. I expressed some of my frustrations to the vet nurse and she said she understood, but seemed to be saying that since Casper is old, we can't do much for him, and it's to be expected that he'll have problems. I can pick up some probiotics this afternoon she said, so I'll do that, and she was going to ask the vet who's working today (the vet who put Casper on buprenorphine last week) if she had any ideas. Since Casper is eating grass and I only have a small amount of it, she said I can pick some for him outside, and I said that all the grass around here is in areas where people let their dogs pee on it, and she said that was fine, because the grass they gave Casper and Sophie yesterday was from a little park where dogs pee on the grass, too. :? Not too happy with that.


I really appreciate everyone's replies so much. I'll see if I can reply to them later today, but I'm pretty tired, so I might not manage. But thank you to everyone who replied and cares about my dear Casper, seriously. :love::love:
 
You know Dr. Frances Harcourt Brown that gets mentioned a lot (the first rabbit specialist in the UK, now retired) - she said don't worry about dog wee, gave the impression it was the last thing to be concerned about. I try to avoid areas where dogs could wee when foraging but I bet such areas are fewer than I imagine. On occasion a bit of nice looking forage gets rejected by both J&B here - I reckon thats the stuff that has been in contact with wee. But if Frances says don't worry, I don't worry :lol: If you can get your mum or dad to pick regularly for you I'd jump at the chance. you can give it a good rinse. Obviously you're call though.

Well I'm pleased he is back on his Emperid & the vet nurse seems on side & will talk to the better vet
 
You know Dr. Frances Harcourt Brown that gets mentioned a lot (the first rabbit specialist in the UK, now retired) - she said don't worry about dog wee, gave the impression it was the last thing to be concerned about. I try to avoid areas where dogs could wee when foraging but I bet such areas are fewer than I imagine. On occasion a bit of nice looking forage gets rejected by both J&B here - I reckon thats the stuff that has been in contact with wee. But if Frances says don't worry, I don't worry :lol: If you can get your mum or dad to pick regularly for you I'd jump at the chance. you can give it a good rinse. Obviously you're call though.

Well I'm pleased he is back on his Emperid & the vet nurse seems on side & will talk to the better vet
Oh, dog pee isn't a problem? I do know Dr. Frances Harcourt Brown is, like, a super bunny specialist, so if she says not to worry... What about wild bunnies? Because the only area I can think of where the grass doesn't get mown is an area near allotment gardens where wild bunnies like to visit. Is that safe?

Thank you. I'm pleased about that, too.
 
I always feel a bit reluctant to use the words safe, especially with bunnies - it always seems like there could be exceptions or risks, known or unknown. Like I have been foraging in areas wildies go for 6 or 7 years - its the mainstay of my bunnies diet & I don't think they've come to any harm through it. I feel happier feeding forage & grass that can be got to by wildies than treated hay for example. However I don't feed organic hay cos they don't like the brands I've tried.

Rather than safe I'd like to say for vaccinated bunnies its low risk - & has so many benefits.
 
I always feel a bit reluctant to use the words safe, especially with bunnies - it always seems like there could be exceptions or risks, known or unknown. Like I have been foraging in areas wildies go for 6 or 7 years - its the mainstay of my bunnies diet & I don't think they've come to any harm through it. I feel happier feeding forage & grass that can be got to by wildies than treated hay for example. However I don't feed organic hay cos they don't like the brands I've tried.

Rather than safe I'd like to say for vaccinated bunnies its low risk - & has so many benefits.
Ah, I see. It sounds like it should be okay, then. It certainly doesn't seem to have hurt your bunnies in any way. And having more grass for them would be a big benefit, so that's worth something, too, you're right. I'll see if my mum or dad wants to get some grass for Casper and Sophie this weekend. :)
 
I have another Casper update. The vet (a different vet again) called this afternoon to ask how Casper's doing, and we talked for a while, and he explained that he had examined Casper's mouth yesterday, and he had pressed on all the teeth and Casper didn't show any reaction, so he concluded that the problem isn't that his teeth are hurting him, and that's why they moved on to the possible explanation of it being his guts that are upset because of the medication, especially suspecting the Metacam. So, his Metacam dosage has been halved again today and he's now on 0.25ml a day, but he can have the Emeprid, and Cisaral is now only for when he isn't eating on his own at all. I also picked up the probiotics (Fibreplex), and he's supposed to have that once a day. When I picked it up the vet nurse recommended I syringe feed Casper even if he is eating some on his own (while yesterday they told me not to syringe feed him because he was eating some on his own), so I'll start that up again. I brought up to the vet that the only time Casper has eaten hay this week was when he was on the injections (he started getting worse again the day after his last injection), and so the vet has given me two injections for the weekend in case Casper stops eating completely and it's really needed, but what I was really wondering was why he would eat better on a stronger painkiller if it's not his teeth hurting him. So, I'm still kind of confused about what's going on with Casper, but I feel a bit better at least knowing why they changed their minds about it being his tooth roots.

Meanwhile Casper is only eating greens today. His belly is currently gurgling a lot, really loudly. :?

Sophie is feeling much better, though! :love:
 
I'm glad they've explained the reasoning at least. Maybe a little syringe feed wouldn't do him any harm - did they explain why they wanted you to stop those on his non eating days? My vets (FHB too) was always of the opinion that syringe feeding is great for replenishing fluids & stimulating appetite. Whilst I think we as pet owners are on dodgy ground being non compliant with bunny medicines I feel differently about food so in all honesty I'd bring out the critical care. I don't know of any circumstance (other than blockage & feeding when a bun is drowsy) where its use is contraindicated. Lots of vibes for Casper
 
Ah, I see. It sounds like it should be okay, then. It certainly doesn't seem to have hurt your bunnies in any way. And having more grass for them would be a big benefit, so that's worth something, too, you're right. I'll see if my mum or dad wants to get some grass for Casper and Sophie this weekend. :)

Am I right in thinking that your parents have a garden? If so, is there anything there that they could bring over for Casper? If not I would think it would be better to get grass after some heavy rain :) I'm sorry but I've forgotten, did you say that Casper didn't like your equivalent of Readigrass? Also of course grass will start to die off gradually from now on and so it would be good to find an alternative that Casper likes.

It is truly frustrating that your vets are changing their minds with the advice. Like j&b, I would certainly supplement his diet with syringe feeds.

Thinking of you all.
 
Oh, sorry, I think I didn't explain the syringe feeding thing well. Yesterday they told me to stop syringe feeding him because he was eating some food by himself and they said he didn't need the syringe feed, but today they had apparently changed their mind because they told me I should syringe feed him even if he was eating some food by himself, to support him. So, they do want me to syringe feed him now.

Omi, my parents do have a garden, yes, but not much grass. They do have a lot of plants he could eat, though, if they're still alive now, so I'll ask if he can maybe have some of it. Getting some grass after some heavy rain should totally be possible because it's been raining for three days straight here! I'll just have to convince one of my parents that a walk through a muddy grass field will be nice. ;) And that's right, Casper doesn't like the Readigrass equivalent, sadly. I've been trying a lot of hay-like things that aren't hay, but he's not a fan of any of them.

Thank you for the vibes and for thinking of us, j&b and Omi. :love:
 
Adding my vibes for Casper, glad to hear Sophie is feeling better. These furries love to worry us don't they, big hugs for you R.O.B. They are lucky bunnies having you to care for them xx
 
Now I'm sad for both of them. I hope you get through these difficult days quickly and forget about them. Send lots of vibrations xxxx :(
 
I'm glad they've explained the reasoning at least. Maybe a little syringe feed wouldn't do him any harm - did they explain why they wanted you to stop those on his non eating days? My vets (FHB too) was always of the opinion that syringe feeding is great for replenishing fluids & stimulating appetite. Whilst I think we as pet owners are on dodgy ground being non compliant with bunny medicines I feel differently about food so in all honesty I'd bring out the critical care. I don't know of any circumstance (other than blockage & feeding when a bun is drowsy) where its use is contraindicated. Lots of vibes for Casper

Well said regarding syringe feeds.Sending vibes.
 
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Adding my vibes for Casper, glad to hear Sophie is feeling better. These furries love to worry us don't they, big hugs for you R.O.B. They are lucky bunnies having you to care for them xx
Aww, that's so kind of you to say, Pets mum. Thank you. :love:


Now I'm sad for both of them. I hope you get through these difficult days quickly and forget about them. Send lots of vibrations xxxx :(
Aw, thank you, KCG. Sophie has been eating like usual since yesterday, though, so you don't have to feel sad for her!


Well said regarding syringe feeds.Sending vibes.
Thank you for the vibes, bunny momma.


I have a good update for today. :love: Casper's been eating a lot of hay, and he's been eating pellets and greens and has been active and cuddling with Sophie. :love: I doubt the probiotics work this fast (I only started it last night), so I don't know why he's feeling better, but I'm just really glad that he is. :love: Hopefully he'll keep eating like this and will just keep getting better. He's enjoying some fresh air on the balcony now. He fled there in protest after I gave him his morning meds.
 
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