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Anyone Got the Latest Issue of Rabbiting On ?

Regarding the Webinar summary, I'm not sure what Emma Milne is saying completely stands up to scrutiny. I'm particularly thinking about the statement that she's not sure we could ever give rabbits what wildies have. Would we want to in every aspect? Wildies, like all other wild animals not at the top of their food chain, live in constant fear of predation. This will consume a huge part of their thinking every day. There will also I think be days in the depths of Winter when wildies will go hungry. Good quality grass will not be available all year round. When wildies are sick, they will suffer without appropriate medication. The benefits of being a wildie will of course be the space and also the social interaction and community living. Their lives in my view are completely different to pet rabbits.

If she is suggesting that if we could we should attempt to give our pet rabbits the same life as that of a wildie, then I don't agree with her.

I don't much like her generalisation about the care of pet rabbits eg food, space, partners etc.
 
I'd just like to give my opinion on this as a relatively new rabbit parent.

We got our Netherland dwarves, Sophie and Joey last year. Unfortunately, we weren't able to rescue due to covid so we ended up getting our guys from a 'show breeder'. He did seem to genuinely care about the welfare of his buns and the information he gave us about caring for them was consistent with my own research (mainly sourced from RWAF).

I instantly fell in love with Sophie, Joey and rabbits in general, wanting to give my guys the best life possible. Due to the complexity of caring for rabbits I subscribed to Rabbiting On, joined this forum and continued to educate myself on caring for rabbits.

I read Rabbiting On cover to cover and have also purchased back issues as I find the health advice invaluable.

However, as an owner of 2 amazing Netherland dwarves, I always felt a little ostracised by RWAF and their opinions on lop and brachycephalic buns. Sometimes reading their articles makes me feel like I did the wrong thing.

I understand that it's better to adopt rather than purchase from a breeder however the breeder I used did say that if I hadn't got them he most likely would have used them for further breeding and shows - so I do feel like I rescued them in my own way if that makes sense!

The way I see it, the breed is not the buns fault and we should do everything we can to ensure that all buns are given the best life possible. I understand that the RWAF want to promote more 'natural' buns and develop a social norm but it almost feel like they're forgetting about buns of these breeds that are already here and making their owners feel tremendously guilty for owning them!

Anyway, I think I'm rambling now so will leave it there - just my two pennies worth!
 
I'd just like to give my opinion on this as a relatively new rabbit parent.

We got our Netherland dwarves, Sophie and Joey last year. Unfortunately, we weren't able to rescue due to covid so we ended up getting our guys from a 'show breeder'. He did seem to genuinely care about the welfare of his buns and the information he gave us about caring for them was consistent with my own research (mainly sourced from RWAF).

I instantly fell in love with Sophie, Joey and rabbits in general, wanting to give my guys the best life possible. Due to the complexity of caring for rabbits I subscribed to Rabbiting On, joined this forum and continued to educate myself on caring for rabbits.

I read Rabbiting On cover to cover and have also purchased back issues as I find the health advice invaluable.

However, as an owner of 2 amazing Netherland dwarves, I always felt a little ostracised by RWAF and their opinions on lop and brachycephalic buns. Sometimes reading their articles makes me feel like I did the wrong thing.

I understand that it's better to adopt rather than purchase from a breeder however the breeder I used did say that if I hadn't got them he most likely would have used them for further breeding and shows - so I do feel like I rescued them in my own way if that makes sense!

The way I see it, the breed is not the buns fault and we should do everything we can to ensure that all buns are given the best life possible. I understand that the RWAF want to promote more 'natural' buns and develop a social norm but it almost feel like they're forgetting about buns of these breeds that are already here and making their owners feel tremendously guilty for owning them!

Anyway, I think I'm rambling now so will leave it there - just my two pennies worth!

You are not alone in feeling as you do.
 
Regarding the Webinar summary, I'm not sure what Emma Milne is saying completely stands up to scrutiny. I'm particularly thinking about the statement that she's not sure we could ever give rabbits what wildies have. Would we want to in every aspect? Wildies, like all other wild animals not at the top of their food chain, live in constant fear of predation. This will consume a huge part of their thinking every day. There will also I think be days in the depths of Winter when wildies will go hungry. Good quality grass will not be available all year round. When wildies are sick, they will suffer without appropriate medication. The benefits of being a wildie will of course be the space and also the social interaction and community living. Their lives in my view are completely different to pet rabbits.

If she is suggesting that if we could we should attempt to give our pet rabbits the same life as that of a wildie, then I don't agree with her.

I don't much like her generalisation about the care of pet rabbits eg food, space, partners etc.

I agree. Sometimes the tone of how a message is expressed can also have an impact. I find the whole thing very ‘preachy’ and quite frankly insulting at times.

I feel quite sad really as I have been a member of the RWAF since it started. With a short break when I could not afford the Subscription. I still highly value a lot of the information they provide and admire a lot of the work they do. But this latest Campaign has been handled badly, IMO.
 
My Barney is a lop and apart from my hare, he has the longest face out of all 5 bunnies
01bff5f06735aa02fbacbf026d098f55.jpg

0e52430c2bfe2eda6995992d77b565a6.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
My Barney is a lop and apart from my hare, he has the longest face out of all 5 bunnies
01bff5f06735aa02fbacbf026d098f55.jpg

0e52430c2bfe2eda6995992d77b565a6.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Handsome lad :love:

I think the point that is trying to be made is no so much that all Lops fall foul to the problems of brachycephalic breeds but that all Lops are prone to ear problems, regardless of the shape of their skull.

I understand the message, I just disagree with the way it is being communicated.
 
Handsome lad :love:

I think the point that is trying to be made is no so much that all Lops fall foul to the problems of brachycephalic breeds but that all Lops are prone to ear problems, regardless of the shape of their skull.

I understand the message, I just disagree with the way it is being communicated.

Agreed. Love this forum as we all have the same understanding
Like you was long member of rwaf but have now withdrawn from them and unsubscribed
 
I actually think angoras are more of a problem than lops. I always feel so sorry for the ones whose fur isn't clipped. They can't keep themselves groomed, which must feel bad for animals as clean as rabbits, it must be awful in summer, when their fur gets matted it must feel really uncomfortable or even painful to them, and I always wonder about their vision since they have so much hair around their eyes.

I feel really sorry for that bunny in the photo. :(

me too. so sad :(
 
I'd just like to give my opinion on this as a relatively new rabbit parent.

We got our Netherland dwarves, Sophie and Joey last year. Unfortunately, we weren't able to rescue due to covid so we ended up getting our guys from a 'show breeder'. He did seem to genuinely care about the welfare of his buns and the information he gave us about caring for them was consistent with my own research (mainly sourced from RWAF).

I instantly fell in love with Sophie, Joey and rabbits in general, wanting to give my guys the best life possible. Due to the complexity of caring for rabbits I subscribed to Rabbiting On, joined this forum and continued to educate myself on caring for rabbits.

I read Rabbiting On cover to cover and have also purchased back issues as I find the health advice invaluable.

However, as an owner of 2 amazing Netherland dwarves, I always felt a little ostracised by RWAF and their opinions on lop and brachycephalic buns. Sometimes reading their articles makes me feel like I did the wrong thing.

I understand that it's better to adopt rather than purchase from a breeder however the breeder I used did say that if I hadn't got them he most likely would have used them for further breeding and shows - so I do feel like I rescued them in my own way if that makes sense!

The way I see it, the breed is not the buns fault and we should do everything we can to ensure that all buns are given the best life possible. I understand that the RWAF want to promote more 'natural' buns and develop a social norm but it almost feel like they're forgetting about buns of these breeds that are already here and making their owners feel tremendously guilty for owning them!

Anyway, I think I'm rambling now so will leave it there - just my two pennies worth!

Slightly off topic but am curious, Why couldn’t you rescue because of covid?
 
Slightly off topic but am curious, Why couldn’t you rescue because of covid?

Most rescues (not just rabbit ones) were not rehoming during lockdowns - homechecks were stopped, viewing & transport of animals wasn't possible under the restrictions, etc. Things are easing now, but it's been tough on all rescues. It has still been possible to obtain pets from other sources, though, as things like homechecks are not required and travelling distances could be much more local. I had the same issue. I normally go through a rescue at the other end of the country, via a friend who comes up to her caravan near me. It just wasn't possible for most of this year, so I ended up doing a local rehome via an online pet listing service.
 
Slightly off topic but am curious, Why couldn’t you rescue because of covid?

Pretty much because of what Shimmer said below. I contacted a couple of local rescues and either didn't get a response as they were closed or was told that they weren't able to adopt out due to the restrictions. This was at the very beginning of the lockdown. I'm hoping things are a bit easier for rescues now!

Looking back on it, I guess I could have waited but I wouldn't change my guys for the world!
 
Pretty much because of what Shimmer said below. I contacted a couple of local rescues and either didn't get a response as they were closed or was told that they weren't able to adopt out due to the restrictions. This was at the very beginning of the lockdown. I'm hoping things are a bit easier for rescues now!

Looking back on it, I guess I could have waited but I wouldn't change my guys for the world!

Most definitely they are now yours and your babies ❤️ no matter where they where from x
 
And so the negativity to lops in rescue has already begun, in a group I someone wrote they will not adopt a lop from rescue because they will cost to much health wise.
 
So the vet in question behind all this, has done a poster about upcoming talk and has now mentioned all other breeds is rexes, and even giants being extreme breeds along with dwarfs and lops
So why haven't the rear turned there backs on other breeds to then, but then the vet is an extremist who wants to see no rabbits as pets
She even on an extreme mission against horse riders is we should not ride horses, we should not use a whip, we use crops as an aid not to beat the horsenbut alittle tickle when needed.
I won't be sharing her recent poster on rabbit breeds because I cannot support her
 
So the vet in question behind all this, has done a poster about upcoming talk and has now mentioned all other breeds is rexes, and even giants being extreme breeds along with dwarfs and lops
So why haven't the rear turned there backs on other breeds to then, but then the vet is an extremist who wants to see no rabbits as pets
She even on an extreme mission against horse riders is we should not ride horses, we should not use a whip, we use crops as an aid not to beat the horsenbut alittle tickle when needed.
I won't be sharing her recent poster on rabbit breeds because I cannot support her

Why the RWAF have taken her on is beyond me. Pet Rabbits are here now and have been for a very long time. All this supposed hard core ‘Welfare’ messaging is doing is making caring, COMPETENT Rabbit Care Givers feel like they are the Bad Guys.

I am in no mood to be able to post my full thoughts on all of this as doing so would probably get me banned……


Nuff said :roll:
 
Why the RWAF have taken her on is beyond me. Pet Rabbits are here now and have been for a very long time. All this supposed hard core ‘Welfare’ messaging is doing is making caring, COMPETENT Rabbit Care Givers feel like they are the Bad Guys.

I am in no mood to be able to post my full thoughts on all of this as doing so would probably get me banned……


Nuff said :roll:
I'm inclined to agree. I understand rabbits are from a meat and fur background, but then nothing really started as a pet really? Dormice, hamsters, guineas: all meat breeds IIRC, dogs, cats, ferrets all working animals of a sort, chinchillas fur animals; stuff like lizards, snakes and tarantulas 'shock' pets ('freak show'/circus animals) maybe? Pets as pets is a very 'modern' thing so widespread, but those of us who're competent are trying our best and we need support not threats.
 
She even on an extreme mission against horse riders is we should not ride horses, we should not use a whip, we use crops as an aid not to beat the horsenbut alittle tickle when needed.

I don't agree that we should necessarily stop riding horses but I do think that training methods used should be looked at and it's good that people are challenging potentially outdated ideas. So many methods come from a time when we didn't have much/any scientific knowledge to suggest there were better ways.

A recent study showed that horses are capable of feeling just as much pain as us (and everybody would be horrified if teachers in schools wanted to use a crop on children, say.)

Aversives only ever work by being unpleasant for the horse in some way. Us humans have intelligence on our side - if we can train wild zoo animals to present themselves for blood draws, health checks etc without needing to punish them in any way first, then we should be able to do the same with any animal.

But that's a whole other can of worms I'm opening.
 
So the vet in question behind all this, has done a poster about upcoming talk and has now mentioned all other breeds is rexes, and even giants being extreme breeds along with dwarfs and lops
So why haven't the rear turned there backs on other breeds to then, but then the vet is an extremist who wants to see no rabbits as pets
She even on an extreme mission against horse riders is we should not ride horses, we should not use a whip, we use crops as an aid not to beat the horsenbut alittle tickle when needed.
I won't be sharing her recent poster on rabbit breeds because I cannot support her

Personally I don’t see any of that as extreme. I too wish rabbits were not domesticated. I disagree with many of the practices involved in horse riding too. And of course giant breeds/rexes etc are extreme breeds; they’re as far from a ‘proper’ rabbit as you can get, and suffer as a result.
 
As a rescue we're well aware of the health issues suffered by brachycephalic rabbits and also those with lop ears & absolutely commend RWAF's stance on this.

We've been writing articles on this for several years now and the RVC study on lop eared rabbits was conducted at RRR.

The rabbits with breed related health issues that end up in rescue aren't just originating from back yard breeders and pet shops, they're also coming from 'reputable' BRC breeders too.

Encouraging people to opt for rabbits closer to their wild cousins when purchasing or adopting is a huge step forward for rabbit welfare & eventually I hope other extreme breeds are included also.

We always make adoptees aware of any potential breed related health issues & although there is now greater awareness of these it doesn't mean that the flat faced or lop eared rabbits don't get adopted & RWAF's current stance isn't aimed at making adoptees feel bad for adopting an extreme breed.

Out of our 11 long term residents (these all have health issues) only two are neither flat faced or lop breeds. Out of my own 14 rabbits 9 have breed related health issues. When you look at the percentages although obviously it's not a representative sample, a huge percentage suffer from breed related health issues, the needless suffering due to man kinds desire for an animal to look a certain way has to stop. It literally breaks my heart.
 
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Some Rescues are reporting a drop in enquiries about Lops for rehoming :cry: I realise this might not have been the intention of the latest RWAF Campaing, but it is inevitable that if people are told that Lops are going to have health problems then people are going to be reluctant to take them on as Pets. These Rabbits are already here :cry:
 
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