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Mischief and Lillabelle

twistedtiggerz69

twistedtiggerz69

Mama Doe
So we are thinking that they should be bonded soon as they seem very happy in each other's company through the cage.

I was told to come on here for advice before attempting their bonding so that is what I am doing.

We were considering bonding them at weekend. Mischief is safe now and Lillabelle has had her jabs. Mischief gets his post op check tomorrow and I see no problems with that either. The only concern is that Mischief is moulting so can get a little grumpy but that would only be the occasional little growl. He has never been aggressive by nature.

I would like to do more reading in the next few days so if anyone has any links that are useful please feel free to add them. And any tips or information before we start would be good.

We have a bit of an issue though...the lounge was going tp be the neutral area however Lillabelle has wandered in there a couple of times. Also we ended up having to use one corner of the lounge for Lillabelle to go in the puppy pen.

We can use a different part of the room for bonding and we can steam everything first. Will that be enough? I have nowhere comfortable for me to sit in the bathroom or kitchen for long periods of time and with my health it is important that I am comfy.

Any advice would be such a help and any reading material aswell. We will probably try to bond them Saturday morning when my OH is here to take over so I can sleep. That way we can leave them together overnight if they are doing well. Or we can just do days if that would be better? What is considered the best way to approach this?

Thanks everyone! So excited. I don't want to jinx this but I have a good feeling about these two [emoji3]


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InspectorMorse said:
The one thing to bear in mind is that hormone surges can continue to occur for 6-8 weeks after neutering. So this may make things somewhat more challenging.

I expect that you have already read a lot of this info, but I will post the links anyway just incase

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-care-advice/ownership/bonding-rabbits/

https://belovedrabbits.org/bunny-bonding/

http://www.rabbitresidence.org.uk/everybunny-needs-a-buddy-letrsquos-talk-about-bonding-rabbits.html

Good luck :D
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Is it worth waiting another 10 days then? He will be passed 8 weeks post neutering then.

Also I just realised she will be 13 weeks old tomorrow. What about her getting spayed? Are we better to wait until after then? Or can they be put back together straight after her op? Which way would be best?

Thank you. I suppose we can try bonding them and see what happens? If he seems a bit moody we can just leave them together in the day for a week or two? I don't know which way is best [emoji38] xx

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twistedtiggerz69 said:
Is it worth waiting another 10 days then? He will be passed 8 weeks post neutering then.

Also I just realised she will be 13 weeks old tomorrow. What about her getting spayed? Are we better to wait until after then? Or can they be put back together straight after her op? Which way would be best?

Thank you. I suppose we can try bonding them and see what happens? If he seems a bit moody we can just leave them together in the day for a week or two? I don't know which way is best [emoji38] xx

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The best chance of success would be to get most hormone driven behaviours out of the way. So this would mean waiting til 6-8 weeks after Lillabelle has been spayed. As she is a giant Rabbit IMO she should not be spayed before 6 months of age, although some Vets will spay from 4 months. I would not feel comfortable about that though.

You could try bonding them before she is spayed, but once she approaches puberty she may become more likely to be aggressive and pseudopreganacies can occur. So even if the first few weeks together go OK things could change very rapidly once her hormones kick in.
 
That's not great news really. I am really starting to think getting a baby was not the best idea but it is done now.

Ok well we can try bonding them for now bearing in mind we may need to seperate them again in few weeks [emoji53] I can see her being very moody later on. She is already feisty. Poor Mischief! She was supposed to be laid back lol.

We will have to get her an XL cage for at night if that happens. She is growing out this cage so we will sell it and get a big one for her. It is a shame if they have to be seperate as they can't get free roam all day and have to take turns. We will work it out if it happens though. Perhaps let them be together some of the day when we can watch them closely?

I'm not happy getting her spayed before 6 months. Even that feels young to me but I realise there are many health benefits to getting her done early-ish. Hopefully they will spend most of the time together before she is spayed. I think putting them together for some of the day at least will be more beneficial to them. They obviously want to be together at the moment so we will give it a try.

I was looking to get them bonded properly but maybe see how it goes in the day for now then? I can't watch them every night for weeks. If it was just for a week or so I would try to cope but knowing she could get moody with her spaying does make me nervous about leaving them alone together later on. She is like a wild cat with us however she is still quite small. But I don't fancy Mischief's chances when she is bigger. He is so soft and sweet and cuddly bless him [emoji175]

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InspectorMorse said:
The one thing to bear in mind is that hormone surges can continue to occur for 6-8 weeks after neutering. So this may make things somewhat more challenging.

I expect that you have already read a lot of this info, but I will post the links anyway just incase

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-care-advice/ownership/bonding-rabbits/

https://belovedrabbits.org/bunny-bonding/

http://www.rabbitresidence.org.uk/everybunny-needs-a-buddy-letrsquos-talk-about-bonding-rabbits.html

Good luck :D
Click to expand...
Oh is this the same for boys?
 
Graciee said:
Oh is this the same for boys?
Click to expand...


You mean hormone surges ? If so then yes. Some Rabbits are effected more than others. It happens because the Pituatory Gland keeps sending signals to the testes to produce testosterone and of course the testes are no longer at home. The Pituatory Gland eventually gives up sending the messages. This can happen before 6-8 weeks, but the general advice atm iseems to be to be prepared for it to go on for that long.
 
twistedtiggerz69 said:
That's not great news really. I am really starting to think getting a baby was not the best idea but it is done now.

Ok well we can try bonding them for now bearing in mind we may need to seperate them again in few weeks [emoji53] I can see her being very moody later on. She is already feisty. Poor Mischief! She was supposed to be laid back lol.

We will have to get her an XL cage for at night if that happens. She is growing out this cage so we will sell it and get a big one for her. It is a shame if they have to be seperate as they can't get free roam all day and have to take turns. We will work it out if it happens though. Perhaps let them be together some of the day when we can watch them closely?

I'm not happy getting her spayed before 6 months. Even that feels young to me but I realise there are many health benefits to getting her done early-ish. Hopefully they will spend most of the time together before she is spayed. I think putting them together for some of the day at least will be more beneficial to them. They obviously want to be together at the moment so we will give it a try.

I was looking to get them bonded properly but maybe see how it goes in the day for now then? I can't watch them every night for weeks. If it was just for a week or so I would try to cope but knowing she could get moody with her spaying does make me nervous about leaving them alone together later on. She is like a wild cat with us however she is still quite small. But I don't fancy Mischief's chances when she is bigger. He is so soft and sweet and cuddly bless him [emoji175]

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Click to expand...

To be honest you may be making things more complicated if you put them together for a few hours only to separate them again. It just means every new introduction is starting off from scratch again. I am not saying this will never work, but IME with bonding I find it better to put them together and leave them together unless they fight.
 
InspectorMorse said:
To be honest you may be making things more complicated if you put them together for a few hours only to separate them again. It just means every new introduction is starting off from scratch again. I am not saying this will never work, but IME with bonding I find it better to put them together and leave them together unless they fight.
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Ok I will plan to do that at the weekend then if my pain is better. I had a bad weekend but the dr has advised me to up my Pregabalin so hopefully I will be better by the weekend. Fingers crossed!

I can sleep on the sofa if needed so I am near them in case they fight. But I think I will stay awake through the night to start with and my OH can take over while I sleep. In the weekdays is more difficult. I will have to sleep in the evenings when he comes home from work. We won't get much time together for a few days I imagine [emoji38]

I think we need to try bonding them now at least. They seem good together and I think Mischief will be patient with her. Will shall see how it goes.

Thank you for the good luck. I will try and get plenty of sleep ready for the weekend then [emoji6] xx

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Another thing I mentioned she is feisty when we try to pick her up to put her in the cage. We are often able to just encourage her yo run in by herself now. However since we got her she has managed to scratch me everywhere! I where vest tops due to the heat and I literally have scratches all over my chest and arms but also scratches on my neck,legs and even my feet!

Her nails are like tiny needles and they really could do with a trim before we bond them as I worry about her hurting Mischief's eyes. At least if they are trimmed they would not scratch so badly.

I will try and trim them but I can't see it being a success. I think they may be too small to trim with the nail scissors we have. And I doubt she will let us. We may have to get the vet to do them.

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It sounds like you have a plan! Fingers crossed it all goes nice and simply.

With the nails as Blossom is double jointed she is almost impossible for me. I take her for a nurse appointment instead of vets which is cheaper and they happily weigh her also as she's prone to weight gain [emoji849]

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Just because she is feisty with you doesn't mean she will be feisty with Mischief, hopefully she will be a little timid and be a good girl. I see no problem with putting them together as she is still very young and I can't imagine her being territorial over parts of the lounge. Once they are together and maybe Mischief is chasing her a bit, with no fighting, then it is best to leave them together as it should only take a couple of days for them to get used to actually being properly together. Maybe, if you are lucky, less than that. By the time she is old enough to be spayed, her and Mischief should be very happy together and she will be able to join him again but in a restricted area. He will be able to run around. When you first put them together they might get a bit frisky as they need to sort out their hierarchy but I normally talk to them telling them No not to do that or well done if they are being good. If you don't do this they might think they have to fight, as Rabbits sometimes do, but you want them to be friends. They don't automatically know what you want them to do! Try to keep calm as if everything is quite normal and they don't pick up on your nerves. Bonding Rabbits is scary .
 
InspectorMorse said:
You mean hormone surges ? If so then yes. Some Rabbits are effected more than others. It happens because the Pituatory Gland keeps sending signals to the testes to produce testosterone and of course the testes are no longer at home. The Pituatory Gland eventually gives up sending the messages. This can happen before 6-8 weeks, but the general advice atm iseems to be to be prepared for it to go on for that long.
Click to expand...
Ah yea I mean, am I supposed to wait 6-8 weeks to bond Willoughby and Apricot as he's only nearly 2 weeks post op iirc! It's fine if I am, I just had it in my head that I was only meant to wait 2 weeks for some reason! Whatever is considered the best route I'll do that [emoji38]
 
Graciee said:
Ah yea I mean, am I supposed to wait 6-8 weeks to bond Willoughby and Apricot as he's only nearly 2 weeks post op iirc! It's fine if I am, I just had it in my head that I was only meant to wait 2 weeks for some reason! Whatever is considered the best route I'll do that [emoji38]
Click to expand...

I have bonded Bucks 3-4 weeks after castration with no problems.But the current advice is to wait for 6-8 weeks.
 
CarelessSquid07 said:
It sounds like you have a plan! Fingers crossed it all goes nice and simply.

With the nails as Blossom is double jointed she is almost impossible for me. I take her for a nurse appointment instead of vets which is cheaper and they happily weigh her also as she's prone to weight gain [emoji849]

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Click to expand...
Thank you. I may sound like I have a plan but I feel a bit like I'm diving in the deep end! [emoji38]

I have never heard of double bunnies before! Does that mean she is more wriggly and difficult to hold then?

Yes I need to book Lillabelle for her nails to be done I think xx

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tonibun said:
Just because she is feisty with you doesn't mean she will be feisty with Mischief, hopefully she will be a little timid and be a good girl. I see no problem with putting them together as she is still very young and I can't imagine her being territorial over parts of the lounge. Once they are together and maybe Mischief is chasing her a bit, with no fighting, then it is best to leave them together as it should only take a couple of days for them to get used to actually being properly together. Maybe, if you are lucky, less than that. By the time she is old enough to be spayed, her and Mischief should be very happy together and she will be able to join him again but in a restricted area. He will be able to run around. When you first put them together they might get a bit frisky as they need to sort out their hierarchy but I normally talk to them telling them No not to do that or well done if they are being good. If you don't do this they might think they have to fight, as Rabbits sometimes do, but you want them to be friends. They don't automatically know what you want them to do! Try to keep calm as if everything is quite normal and they don't pick up on your nerves. Bonding Rabbits is scary .
Click to expand...
Actually the last few days I have started to bond with Lillabelle more. I kind of ignore her hissing and growling. I think that is just her way of being vocal [emoji38] She is now coming up to me for strokes and staying still. I can tickle her under her chin now and touch her tummy and front paws. She goes in her cage mostly on her own now. She picks things up quickly. I avoid picking her up. We just use a walking stick to gently nudge her out from under the bed or tight spaces. And then coax her towards her cage. It sometimes takes a while though as she is very quick! [emoji38]

I get the feeling they will settle quickly. Mischief seems very calm with her so I'm hoping that carries on when they meet properly.

I see now that the reason it is supposed to be a mutual area is because of territory. She has not been in the lounge enough for that plus we are only using a little area of it that hasn't been used.

That's a fantastic tip about talking to them. It is the way I am usually with them. I am very vocal talking to them all the time like a mad woman with her bunnies! [emoji23] I evem sing to them very badly but they love it for some reason. Mischief always makes contented noises when I sing and settles for a cuddle. Lillabelle comes up to me. I think they find it reassuring.

I really think Lillabelle is a loving little bunny but she is nervous. She desperately wants love and loves being stroked and really wants to be close to Mischief. I feel quite sad for her really. This is the main reason I wanted to bond them. I think she will settle down once they are bonded and allowed to free roam together.

Thank you for your help. It makes sense and makes me feel better knowing how to approach this in a way comfortable to me xx

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My other main concern is their pellets. I will have to seperate them to feed them I think. Is this the best way please?

Lillabelle eats 4 egg cupfuls of half junior SS and half her old mix feed of Allen and Page natural pellets and flaked peas. She also has a large handful of alfafa which Mischief does not have. She also polishes off a large pile of hay every day. She is still slim with a little tummy. I don't know where she puts it all!

Mischief has a quarter of an eggcupful of Excel. And he has other things like dandelion root and dried fruit leaves which she does not have. His weight is about right but he is prone to putting on weight.

How can I feed them so they both get what they need please? Do I just seperate them for the pellets? And just put alfafa in for both of them? Will it matter much if he eats it? He does love it and wolfs it up!

I was going to change the 8 panels to two seperate squares of 4 panels for feeding times so they can still see each other. I realise it disrupts the bonding but if she goes without her feeds she will lose so much weight! Am I doing the right thing? Is there a better way of doing the feeds?

Thanks everyone for your help on this! xx



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