Protexin (Mousey's poops)

Graciee said:

Yea it's a really thick walled plastic tub, it's got an annoying lid too, which you have to make sure is really shut [emoji38] I have loads of them in my greenhouse [emoji38][emoji38] you can drill drainage holes in the bottom, or store stuff like plant labels in them [emoji38][emoji38] sharpie writes on them nicely too [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]

Click to expand...

dollyanna said:

You can buy plantain seeds and grow it for her? I also get huge bags of ribwort plantain from Nature's Grub that my guys absolutely adore, happy to send a sample (it might get there this time!!). I also have grass pellets, both plain and with herbs and stuff - I can give you the ingredients - if you want to try any. They are horse feed so if she likes them and eats them they are very cheap to feed if you store them properly. You might find she likes grass pellets better than hay pellets, mine turn their noses up at hay cobs.

Click to expand...

dollyanna said:

You can buy plantain seeds and grow it for her? I also get huge bags of ribwort plantain from Nature's Grub that my guys absolutely adore, happy to send a sample (it might get there this time!!). I also have grass pellets, both plain and with herbs and stuff - I can give you the ingredients - if you want to try any. They are horse feed so if she likes them and eats them they are very cheap to feed if you store them properly. You might find she likes grass pellets better than hay pellets, mine turn their noses up at hay cobs.

Click to expand...

Walli said:

I use protexin profibre for Walli, he has problems with cecal dysbiosis and frequent gut stasis. He only tolerates hay and dried herbage. Since starting with profibre his cecal dysbiosis is better I think! I only give about 10 per day and he isn't on any other pellet.

Just a thought on her water intake; have you tried bowls of different materials (metal,ceramic,plastic)?
Walli only wants to drink from a metal bowl

Also I agree with previous posts, the herbage I have found highest in fibre is greater plantain, about 23 percent in the dried one I order from the hay experts.

Click to expand...

keletkezes said:

J&B, I've got some greater/broadleaf plantain mini plants (2yrs old) if you want me to pop them up (post or car, depending on my schedule)?

Click to expand...

joey&boo said:

Her cecals are actually good these days (I know as she has mobility issues & can't always get to them so I'm a little too well acquainted with them :lol. Do you think this will help her regular poop. Thats great to have my hunch confirmed about plantain. Thank You. What are your thoughts about increasing her dried forage (I dry loads myself, its a varied selection) - she doesn't have much ATM

I'll try a change of bowl. She has had the same one for years though. I have put a second one on a raised section of her space in case it was hurting her neck bending down.

Click to expand...

Walli said:

I don't think it has helped his regular poop directly. But I think it has helped a bit "indirectly". His gut is feeling better now which has lead to his appetite increasing so he eats more hay and the poops are therefore better. But if Mousey doesn't need the added probiotics perhaps fibafirst is better as it
is higher in fibre.

Maybe try increasing dried forage a bit as long as it doesn't result in her eating even less hay?
Maybe try oat or wheat hay?

Click to expand...

Omi said:

Has anyone got a reliable resource which states the %age of fibre in hay and grass? I guess this will vary between species, but probably only slightly. It's not something that online hay suppliers provide.

I'm thinking perhaps people with horses have this information.

Click to expand...

joey&boo said:

I had a google last night. You always end up on horsey sites :lol: i'm sure I read grass is really high in fibre but I'd had my first gin in ages so I'll have to revisit

Last night she ate all of her fresh forage except for some grass, all of her nuggets (even hay box ones), looks like she has eaten the dried forage mixed in to her tray but none thats by her sleeping area. I'm pleased she is eating the haybox nuggets again - she just had 4 with breakfast

Click to expand...

joey&boo said:

This is a super kind offer but what do Chibbs & Lopsy say ?

Click to expand...

Fibre

There was also substantial variation in NDF values both within- and between-species (Fig. 3). The largest absolute NDF values were recorded from the grasses; Bouteloua gracilis at 90%, Aristida longiseta at 88% and Setaria macrostachya at 86%. The maximum value recorded from any other functional group related to the foliage of two trees; Bauhinia cheilantha at 68% and Mimosa caesapiniifolia at 68%. NDF for tree foliage, herbs and legumes were clustered at the lower end of the range of values. The minimum values of NDF were recorded from the herbaceous legume, Psophocarpus scandens at 23%, the grass, Dactylis glomerata at 27% and the herb, Sanguisorba minor at 30%. The largest ranges of NDF values that were recorded were from the grasses; Dactylis glomerata (27–71%), Phleum pratense (36–68%), Alopecurus pratensis (39–70%) and Lolium perenne (34–62%).

Fig. 3

Ascending median neutral detergent fibre content for 113 forage plant species. Box shading represents functional group. Values are percent of dry plant material (% DM)
Full size image

The largest ADF values were also measured from the grasses; Hyparrhenia hirta at 60% and Enteropogon macrostachus at 57%, whilst the foliage of the tree, Mimosa caesapiniifolia, was also recorded at 55%. High ADF values were rarer than high NDF and only 3% of ADF values in the database were greater than 50%. The lowest ADF values were measured from the grasses, Phleum pratense, Agropyron riparium, Dactylis glomerata, Festuca arundinacea and Lolium multiflorum, with values of 13, 16, 16, 16, and 2%, respectively. The largest ranges of values were also measured from grasses; Lolium multiflorum (2–35%), Bromus inermis (18–46%), Dactylis glomerata (16–44%) and Phleum pratense (13–38%).

Click to expand...

keletkezes said:

They don't know and never need to: thye get it out of the path and other areas TBH, not from the pots where I replanted some :lol:

Some good FibaFirst nomming

Grass fibre content (from an Irish dairy article): "The NDF [neutral detergent fibre] content of grazed grass varies from 35% for leafy fresh spring grass to 50% for stemmy grass." Latter is becasue fibre increaes with seed head production. The fibre is in the cells walls so you need firmer stems to held up seedheads, so more cells, more density to create firmness. More cells = more cells walls.

There's also this academic article aimed at farmed herbivores, crucially: "The amount of fibre contained within plant material ranged by 23–90%" and "On average, grasses and tree foliage contained the most fibre". This figure might be useful There's also a whole paragraph on Fibre towards the end:

Click to expand...