Sophie's overgrooming

I'm sorry for starting another thread on this when I've made one before and when I'm already talking about it in the thread about Casper and Sophie's yearly check-up. Still, Sophie's having such a bad morning, I'd really appreciate some advice if anyone knows anything. She has had periods where she overgrooms herself on and off for years, but lately it has been worse, and we're trying to find out now if it's caused by pain (possibly arthritis) by giving her metacam for a few days and seeing if it helps. And it has helped a lot this week; she overgroomed a lot less. But today she's worse than I've ever seen her. She can barely settle down for a nap because she keeps getting up again to lick herself.

I've posted this video in the other thread, but I'll post it here, too: https://photos.app.goo.gl/egKyswnYGvxGG53R8 See, she just can't seem to stop.

I don't know what this means, whether the metacam is helping or not, since she did do a lot better the first few days, but is now worse than ever. And like I said, she's been doing this for years, and I don't know what would have been causing her pain on and off all these years, as she's always been a very healthy bunny.

My best friend mentioned this morning that OCD in cats and dogs can express itself as overgrooming, but I can't find much about OCD in rabbits, though I don't know of any reason why they wouldn't be able to have it. Does anyone know anything about it? I've dealt with compulsions myself in the past (not anymore now that I'm on medication) and her overgrooming has always seemed very compulsive to me, like she can't help herself and just has to do it, even when it's in the middle of a meal or chasing her food ball or running across the room. In that case, would there be anti-anxiety meds for rabbits? Is that even a thing? I know they exist for dogs.

I'll discuss it all with the vet on Monday, but if anyone has any ideas about how I can help her, I'd appreciate it very much.

Edit: She does have a very sensitive kidney area, but we don't know why yet, or if that has anything to do with it. She's had an ultrasound and blood tests, but they were fine. There's also nothing wrong with her skin, and she doesn't have parasites or anything. The vet also thinks it can't be itchiness because that would likely be all over her body, while she only overgrooms that one spot under her chin.

Gosh I'd just had a big long think about ANY ideas & I'm at a loss. If this were a psychological issue for Sophie (with no physical cause) I'd be really surprised. You've given her such a good, stable life & for so long its hard to imagine what the catalyst to her feeling psychologically distressed might be, how OCD might come about.

I was pondering whether she might have an intolerance to something in her environment, diet or 'medicines'. Its interesting that after a period of leaving it alone whilst on metacam she is now grooming it more. This makes me wonder if she is actually really good at managing an uncomfortable spot by attending to it regularly - if its left it feels worse & maybe the metacam let her forget about it too much. Probably a totally silly idea. I thought about something in her vaccinations but that doesn't sound likely either as its too regular. If there was a kind of bacterial / yeast infection - could that come & go?

I'm going to shut up now as my brain is not helping but I hope you get some way of moving forward.

I haven't got time to look through this atm I'm sorry, but I just thought of it.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?467139-Pip-fur-pulling-again&highlight=mervinius

It may or may not be helpful.

I don't really have any ideas but Clementine used to over groom til there was no fur left when she was in pain it's so hard she licked off all the fur on her dewlap and the skin was red and sore.. I can't really say what stopped it if I'm honest, we got some of her issues at the time under control and it improved

Are her scent glands blocked ? Arthritic Rabbits may not be able to clean themselves as well as usual and if they get a mucky bum or blocked scent glands they may pull at their chest/ dewlap

InspectorMorse said:

Are her scent glands blocked ? Arthritic Rabbits may not be able to clean themselves as well as usual and if they get a mucky bum or blocked scent glands they may pull at their chest/ dewlap

Click to expand...

Ooft yeaaaa - and wear a surgical mask when checking them [emoji38]

InspectorMorse said:

Are her scent glands blocked ? Arthritic Rabbits may not be able to clean themselves as well as usual and if they get a mucky bum or blocked scent glands they may pull at their chest/ dewlap

Click to expand...

Thats a useful bit of info JJ. Rudey (as we know) struggled with his scent glands. I wonder if that was a connection with him.

Here's hoping IT IS a problem with Sophie, given how easy it is to sort

Graciee said:

I don't really have any ideas but Clementine used to over groom til there was no fur left when she was in pain it's so hard she licked off all the fur on her dewlap and the skin was red and sore.. I can't really say what stopped it if I'm honest, we got some of her issues at the time under control and it improved

Click to expand...

Phillip was like this too before his enlarged heart and arthritis was diagnosed, although he luckily didn't take any fur out. Once his pain was under control with Metacam, he calmed down although from memory it took a few weeks for him to go back to normal grooming.

Sending lots of vibes for Sophie xx

Graciee said:

Ooft yeaaaa - and wear a surgical mask when checking them [emoji38]

Click to expand...

I like the smell, as Joey& Boo knows ! :lol:

I don't know how old Sophie is but I have noticed that some Rabbits really become broody around the age of 5 even when they are spayed.

Would she groom a substitute? If you gave her a short furred stuffed toy or a rolled up fleece when you notice her doing it?

I wonder if her arthritis is affected by humidity and weather etc. Hubby has bad knees and they're always worse on humid days or cloudy warm rain days.

It could be she needs a painkiller that is longer acting as well as the metacam? I don't know if that's a thing with rabbits.

Hubby has something he takes all the time and then something else for the bad days.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

joey&boo said:

Gosh I'd just had a big long think about ANY ideas & I'm at a loss. If this were a psychological issue for Sophie (with no physical cause) I'd be really surprised. You've given her such a good, stable life & for so long its hard to imagine what the catalyst to her feeling psychologically distressed might be, how OCD might come about.

I was pondering whether she might have an intolerance to something in her environment, diet or 'medicines'. Its interesting that after a period of leaving it alone whilst on metacam she is now grooming it more. This makes me wonder if she is actually really good at managing an uncomfortable spot by attending to it regularly - if its left it feels worse & maybe the metacam let her forget about it too much. Probably a totally silly idea. I thought about something in her vaccinations but that doesn't sound likely either as its too regular. If there was a kind of bacterial / yeast infection - could that come & go?

I'm going to shut up now as my brain is not helping but I hope you get some way of moving forward.

Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, j&b, really. I appreciate any ideas, even if you think they would be unlikely. That's an interesting idea, that the area is bothering her (maybe because of some intolerance) and after leaving it alone because of the metacam it became worse and so she's grooming it more now. I don't think that's a silly idea. I wonder how I could find out if that spot is uncomfortable for her when her skin looks fine... It does seem too regular for it to have been the vaccination, yes, but I don't know enough about bacterial/yeast infection to know if that could come and go. I'll do some researching and try to find out.

Omi said:

I haven't got time to look through this atm I'm sorry, but I just thought of it.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?467139-Pip-fur-pulling-again&highlight=mervinius

It may or may not be helpful.

Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing that thread, Omi. Some things in there do sound very familiar.

Graciee said:

I don't really have any ideas but Clementine used to over groom til there was no fur left when she was in pain it's so hard she licked off all the fur on her dewlap and the skin was red and sore.. I can't really say what stopped it if I'm honest, we got some of her issues at the time under control and it improved

Click to expand...

Oh, poor Clementine. I'm so glad that once you got some of her issues under control she got better. It's amazing to me how Sophie can groom that spot so much without actually losing any hair or damaging her skin, but I'm glad it hasn't gotten that bad, at least.

InspectorMorse said:

Are her scent glands blocked ? Arthritic Rabbits may not be able to clean themselves as well as usual and if they get a mucky bum or blocked scent glands they may pull at their chest/ dewlap

Click to expand...

Ooh, I had no idea. Thank you for that suggestion, IM. After I read your post I watched a video on how to clean them, and then I checked Sophie and her scent glands were really blocked, so I've cleaned them now. I've noticed she's been having trouble keeping herself clean there, which is why we're thinking she might have arthritis, but her fur covered her scent glands so I hadn't noticed they were blocked. Right now she's calm and not overgrooming, so if cleaning them has helped her that would be amazing. It's interesting that they'll pull at their chest/dewlap when they're blocked rather than the actual area of the scent glands. Although I did notice she has a bald spot near one scent gland (I've noticed before, but she never lets me inspect that area for long, so I never managed to take a good look), so maybe she has been pulling out some hair there. Whether this was the cause of her overgrooming or not, I really appreciate your reply, because having them clean must feel much nicer for her.

a reader of books said:

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, j&b, really. I appreciate any ideas, even if you think they would be unlikely. That's an interesting idea, that the area is bothering her (maybe because of some intolerance) and after leaving it alone because of the metacam it became worse and so she's grooming it more now. I don't think that's a silly idea. I wonder how I could find out if that spot is uncomfortable for her when her skin looks fine... It does seem too regular for it to have been the vaccination, yes, but I don't know enough about bacterial/yeast infection to know if that could come and go. I'll do some researching and try to find out.



Thank you for sharing that thread, Omi. Some things in there do sound very familiar.



Oh, poor Clementine. I'm so glad that once you got some of her issues under control she got better. It's amazing to me how Sophie can groom that spot so much without actually losing any hair or damaging her skin, but I'm glad it hasn't gotten that bad, at least.



Ooh, I had no idea. Thank you for that suggestion, IM. After I read your post I watched a video on how to clean them, and then I checked Sophie and her scent glands were really blocked, so I've cleaned them now. I've noticed she's been having trouble keeping herself clean there, which is why we're thinking she might have arthritis, but her fur covered her scent glands so I hadn't noticed they were blocked. Right now she's calm and not overgrooming, so if cleaning them has helped her that would be amazing. It's interesting that they'll pull at their chest/dewlap when they're blocked rather than the actual area of the scent glands. Although I did notice she has a bald spot near one scent gland (I've noticed before, but she never lets me inspect that area for long, so I never managed to take a good look), so maybe she has been pulling out some hair there. Whether this was the cause of her overgrooming or not, I really appreciate your reply, because having them clean must feel much nicer for her.

Click to expand...

I hope that helps! You feeling okay after cleaning them? [emoji38] The smell is um... Well... [emoji38]

Graciee said:

Ooft yeaaaa - and wear a surgical mask when checking them [emoji38]

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I didn't have one. I felt a little sick. :lol:

nap91 said:

Phillip was like this too before his enlarged heart and arthritis was diagnosed, although he luckily didn't take any fur out. Once his pain was under control with Metacam, he calmed down although from memory it took a few weeks for him to go back to normal grooming.

Sending lots of vibes for Sophie xx

Click to expand...

Ooh, I'm very glad he calmed down once his pain was under control. That's interesting that it took him a few weeks, though. Maybe Sophie just needs some more time, too.

InspectorMorse said:

I like the smell, as Joey& Boo knows ! :lol:

Click to expand...

I suspect your liking of it isn't shared by many. :lol:

tonibun said:

I don't know how old Sophie is but I have noticed that some Rabbits really become broody around the age of 5 even when they are spayed.

Click to expand...

Oh, that's interesting. Sophie will be 10 this Monday. Would she be pulling out her fur for a nest in that case? Because she doesn't do that; she just licks and pulls at it, but not so hard that she pulls it out.

CarelessSquid07 said:

Would she groom a substitute? If you gave her a short furred stuffed toy or a rolled up fleece when you notice her doing it?

I wonder if her arthritis is affected by humidity and weather etc. Hubby has bad knees and they're always worse on humid days or cloudy warm rain days.

It could be she needs a painkiller that is longer acting as well as the metacam? I don't know if that's a thing with rabbits.

Hubby has something he takes all the time and then something else for the bad days.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Ooh, I don't know. She tends to completely destroy fleece, but I could try a short furred stuffed toy. That seems worth a try. If she has arthritis and the pain makes her overgroom and it's affected by humidity and the weather and stuff, that could explain why she does it more on some days than others... I'll have to keep an eye on the weather and see if I notice some connection. Oh, and you think the metacam possibly isn't enough? Hmm... I'm not sure, to be honest, if bunnies with arthritis get more than metacam. I'll ask the vet on Monday if she thinks that maybe the metacam isn't enough. Thank you for your ideas, CarelessSquid07.

Graciee said:

I hope that helps! You feeling okay after cleaning them? [emoji38] The smell is um... Well... [emoji38]

Click to expand...

Thank you! I am still feeling a little sick. :lol:

I'm glad the scent gland evacuation worked :lol: Its good you've a few days to see if everything before the vet? This thread prompted me to do Mousey's - I swear she is smiling now.

Well you've a fair few theories to work through now - good luck with that

joey&boo said:

I'm glad the scent gland evacuation worked :lol: Its good you've a few days to see if everything before the vet? This thread prompted me to do Mousey's - I swear she is smiling now.

Well you've a fair few theories to work through now - good luck with that

Click to expand...

Thanks. :lol: Yeah, I still have until Monday to she how she does. I'm glad Mousey's happy hers are clean, too!

Thank you.

a reader of books said:

Thank you! I am still feeling a little sick. [emoji38]

Click to expand...

[emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]

joey&boo said:

I'm glad the scent gland evacuation worked [emoji38] Its good you've a few days to see if everything before the vet? This thread prompted me to do Mousey's - I swear she is smiling now.

Well you've a fair few theories to work through now - good luck with that

Click to expand...

Urgh I should probably check my lots.. Idk if I can stomach it right now... Jane you free? [emoji38][emoji38]

Graciee said:

Urgh I should probably check my lots.. Idk if I can stomach it right now... Jane you free? [emoji38][emoji38]

Click to expand...

:lol: