Bea's spay *update she's gone*

I hope you can get that rest you so need, JessBun. I understand why the brain trouble you have because of ME makes their incompetence even more challenging to sort out and understand (I have ME, too, so, really, I get it), so I'm sorry again you have to deal with it all. I'm glad they've been polite, at least, but it doesn't excuse the terrible way they're handling this, even if it's not something they don't have to do often. Like you said, it's their job to know how to do this.

An update to say, there is no update :?

I looked @ the Royal D vets necrospy section on the website, and it says it takes 2 days for a report to be issued, longer if extra tests are done.

I phoned my vets for an update yesterday, and they have none other than to confirm Bea went over there @ 2.30pm apparantly as in my last post. No idea if PM took place on that day, or the day after, so I could be waiting until tomorrow. I will call tomorrow if still no news. Days are blurring a bit at the moment.

Gently wondering what the results will be. I have an idea of 2 possible reasons. My partner has another suspicion (in line with the hypothermia that Jane suspects) that possibly wasn't picked up by the vets prior to Bea leaving the surgery.

I am still at more peace knowing we are doing all we can for Bea now, to try find answers, even if clear answers don't come back. And that she will come back to us afterwards, just in a different form. Xx

Thank you for your understanding Reader of Books, and sorry to hear you are a fellow sufferer It does make taking in information and remembering things quite difficult doesn't it? And for me it's not just physical activity but mental activity as well that triggers my exhaustion. Most of the mental activity is thankfully out the way now this is going ahead, her arrangements have been made etc. :thumb:

I'm sorry you haven't heard anything back yet. I'd been wondering if you'd had any answers yet. Hopefully you'll hear something tomorrow so you won't have to wait all weekend. It's good to hear that you're still more at peace knowing you're doing all you can, and that she'll come back to you at the end of it.

And, yes, it's hard to take in information and remember things. I'm always writing things down so I'll remember and can read it back later. And, like it does for you, mental activity triggers my exhaustion as well. I'm glad most of the mental activity is out of the way now for you, that everything has been arranged and taken care of and so it's mostly just a matter of waiting for the results.

I don't know how I missed this thread. I've just read the whole thing. What a horrible tragedy. My heart breaks for you. xxx

Something I just thought of, that I don’t think I said before. And that is that you did your best for her, and did everything you could for her. I’m sure she had a very happy life, I’m just sorry she couldn’t have had longer. Sending lots more hugs xx

Zoobec said:

Something I just thought of, that I don’t think I said before. And that is that you did your best for her, and did everything you could for her. I’m sure she had a very happy life, I’m just sorry she couldn’t have had longer. Sending lots more hugs xx

Click to expand...

I think we were so upset that we forgot to say that. Of course, you are absolutely right.

I don't know how I missed this thread, but I have just read it all through, and my heart breaks for you, JessBun. I know it is easier said than done, but please don't blame yourself. It's so clear that you loved her so so much and only wanted what was best for her. This is not your fault in any way. Just want to send you the hugest of hugs <3

Thank you all

I think the only thing I'm struggling with at the moment, is if it was hypothermia. We did feel her ears before she passed and noticed they were a bit cold. We had her inside (she was a house bun - still have to stop myself typing 'is', seems it's still not fully sunk in yet), cranked the heating up and she had a snugglesafe, but she was gone very soon after.

I suppose we will blame ourselves (OH already is bless him) that if it was hypothermia, we should have noticed far sooner and got emergency vet out. I don't know at that point how much could have been done, or if it was likely to be in vain and just stress her out further getting emergency vet trip. But I do believe in being responsible enough to learn lessons where you could have done better. And if that's the case at least we know, and will make sure that never happens again. It is better to have that information than not, for sure, even if it hurts a bit.

As awful as this probably sounds, but I'm sure you'll all understand, the best possible result we can hope for is that this was sadly, a case of her being the unfortunate % of rabbits that don't make it, just the small percentage of risk of rabbits going under GA, however it is odd to lose her afterwards. I hope it was neither our nor the vets fault. Either way there are always important lessons to be learnt, and I feel able to face it if we missed something, now. Because at least, we ARE having the PM done, because we want to know the truth regardless if it's hard to swallow, we need to put our pride away if we missed something and make sure her passing wasn't in vain. And she will be coming back to us. I have a lovely idea for her memorial in the garden.

Thank you as always, for all your kindness and support. Not being alone when so many just wouldn't understand, has helped me enormously. 'Typing it out' is also very helpful, and allows me to make sense of it all. xxx

The thing is, it’s only natural to try to think what if you’d done this or not done that, but, you always do your best with the knowledge that you had at the time. So you shouldn’t beat yourself up about it. Although I know it’s easier said than done, especially when you are grieving. So please try to be kind to yourselves xx

Heartbreaking news. I am so sorry xxx

Sending hugs to you. x

Zoobec said:

The thing is, it’s only natural to try to think what if you’d done this or not done that, but, you always do your best with the knowledge that you had at the time. So you shouldn’t beat yourself up about it. Although I know it’s easier said than done, especially when you are grieving. So please try to be kind to yourselves xx

Click to expand...

You are so right. X

I finally received the pathology report today - don't even ask. I am going to see about posting the whole report, but essentially:

'In conclusion, whilst it is not possible to establish a definitive cause of death in this rabbit, asphyxiation due to aspiration of regurgitated gastric
content after recovery from the ovariohysterectomy procedure is considered to be the most likely cause of death in view of the presence of ingesta in
the oesophagus, oral cavity and trachea, as well as the full stomach.'

Bea didn't eat AT all, at home. She was fed recovery food by the vet nurse. There was a lot of it around her mouth and the vet nurse did comment that 'she put up a fight' which he took as a good sign..

Make of that what you will. I am waiting on a call from the vet to discuss, hopefully this evening.

JessBun said:

I finally received the pathology report today - don't even ask. I am going to see about posting the whole report, but essentially:

'In conclusion, whilst it is not possible to establish a definitive cause of death in this rabbit, asphyxiation due to aspiration of regurgitated gastric
content after recovery from the ovariohysterectomy procedure is considered to be the most likely cause of death in view of the presence of ingesta in
the oesophagus, oral cavity and trachea, as well as the full stomach.'

Bea didn't eat AT all, at home. She was fed recovery food by the vet nurse. There was a lot of it around her mouth and the vet nurse did comment that 'she put up a fight' which he took as a good sign..

Make of that what you will. I am waiting on a call from the vet to discuss, hopefully this evening.

Click to expand...

Poor Bea

OMG
You must be gutted.
Sorry you now have to relive your trauma of losing Bea.

So I have spoken with the vet, but not the one that performed the surgery - an appointment is being set up for this. Interestingly they are only calling me from 'withheld' numbers now for some reason.

I told her what we all know here, Bea didn't eat a thing post-surgery. Everything was measured out, she was not interested. The pathology report specifies:

'A moderate amount of green-brown fibrous material was present in the oral cavity. A small amount of green-brown fibrous material was present in the
oesophagus.
There were moderate amounts of green-brown fibrous material intermixed with green-brown fluid and a small amount of froth within the lumen of the
full length of the trachea.'

The green-brown fibrous material I suspect, is the recovery food fed to her by the vet nurse.

The vet is trying to say Bea died of heart failure, since her death doesn't sound as if it's from aphyxiation - no coughing, gasping etc. Which I do agree with the latter, there was none of this. She then however went on to say this is very unusual, she hasn't seen it in rabbits before, and 'silent' regurgitation can occur.

She mentioned that this regurgitation couldn't have occured during surgery, because they would have noticed this when they put the tube in. I had to correct her that the vet nurse had told me 'they couldn't put the tube in, it was too tight, so went for the mask instead'.

She also originally said that they don't know if the rabbits eat post-op, they just offer the food and if they want they can take it. I stopped her and said 'Er no, I was specifically told she was syringe fed recovery food, it was all over her mouth plain to see'. The vet responded 'Oh yes that's usual we do that with all the rabbits'. So I don't know, it just sounds as if they can't keep a story straight.

She also said 'It's possible she eaten something while you were sleeping and you didn't notice'. Again, I corrected her that we didn't sleep, she's in the room with us and we kept a very sharp eye on her because we were worried. She barely moved let alone would eat.

I haven't been given a possible reason for Bea regurgitating.


Does anybody know where I go from here if I want to find out if this was missed upon Bea's 'recovery' at the vet surgery, or, if the regurgitation was due to her being syringe fed the recovery food by the vet nurse? Or even if it just happened later at home, for some reason. Something really just isn't right.

Thanks all. I am not upset (well, I am, but not because of the report) - Bea died and there's nothing that can be done about it now, and I am very glad I have the answers I so desperately wanted. I am glad it wasn't hypothermia or something that we missed, but it is extremely odd that we didn't notice this, we were in the room with Bea and there was no coughing, struggling for breath or anything. Cases of this according to the vet is extremely unusual too.

I am glad we have the report and answers as to what happened, but knew this would not necessarily answer why. I am thinking of asking the vets for a full report on Bea's procedure - has anyone done this before? Can anyone advise whether the vets can refuse etc?

Thanks xx

So it sounds like it wasn't the spay itself after all, but more likely an accident while the vet nurse was syringe feeding her...? Am I understanding that right? Although it is strange that she didn't show any sign of struggling to breathe, yes... But it does sound like the vets can't keep their story straight, the way they keep contradicting each other and themselves... :? I'm sorry I have no advice on where you could go from here, but the way they're handling this, I do wonder if they'd be honest if you ask for a full report, if they wouldn't change anything to make it look like it couldn't have been their fault, because it sounds like that's what they're doing now, but I might be too pessimistic. Assuming they'll be honest, it could possbily clear up some things, so it sounds worth a try.

a reader of books said:

So it sounds like it wasn't the spay itself after all, but more likely an accident while the vet nurse was syringe feeding her...? Am I understanding that right? Although it is strange that she didn't show any sign of struggling to breathe, yes... But it does sound like the vets can't keep their story straight, the way they keep contradicting each other and themselves... :? I'm sorry I have no advice on where you could go from here, but the way they're handling this, I do wonder if they'd be honest if you ask for a full report, if they wouldn't change anything to make it look like it couldn't have been their fault, because it sounds like that's what they're doing now, but I might be too pessimistic. Assuming they'll be honest, it could possbily clear up some things, so it sounds worth a try.

Click to expand...

Either that, or it happened under GA. Using a mask offers no protection against aspiration, something I've just found out upon researching. I wasn't asked about using a mask, they just did this when they couldn't intubate her. I think, unless they witnessed coughing during her syringe feeding and failed to check her properly (which is possible) that it actually likely happened under GA.

That may explain why there was no symptoms of this. No gasping, no coughing, nothing. This is what I understand the 'passive regurgitation' to be. She only took a small gasp literally as she passed away.

The report was clear it was Ante-mortem. Bea was not left alone prior to death and we were watching carefully, there is no chance we missed symptoms you'd associate with this. So, I'm very confused. It also doesn't make sense why she'd even passively regurgitate at home, at rest either. Seems much more likely to me it would be under GA when masked.

But having spent my life thinking rabbits couldn't vomit (which is true) I wouldn't have ever considered then that they could regurgitate. It seems very unusual. If anyone has any experiences of this, please do share.

Yes, you're right about the reports. We'll soon be able to tell if they're omitting information that was relayed to me upon the phone calls and actually collecting Bea. If they omit important information, I will come down like a ton of bricks.

I just want this to be learnt from to be honest. That's all. xx

I think the vets practice will learn lessons from this, how can they not. So sorry to read this distressing report though.