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Choosing the right food

R

RinnyRin

Warren Scout
Hey,

So I am on Instagram and follow many many many bunny accounts. Anyway, one of them was posting about food and highlighting ingredient lists for different pellets and what was sweeteners, legumes, soy and grains.

Anyway I sent them a private message saying so what ideally are you looking for in an ingredient list and they said basically none of the above.

This had me stumped because I thought you could feed rabbits legumes? Of course, everything in moderation but...I mean that is the case for all food (aside from hay I guess...can a rabbit eat too much hay?)

I brought up Marriages Hypoallergenic Rabbit pellets because I’ve been recommended them previously and they claim to have a high fibre content. They told me I should stay away because they are shady and the ingredients are terrible. Now I don’t know this person so I’m not about to take what they say as gospel. I’d rather do my own research but sometimes Google is so damn limiting.

So what is a good brand? Can rabbits eat legumes? What about soy? All these no-no ingredients seem to be in a hell of a lot of brands.

So much info about what you shouldn’t do...please just outline what is right...

Cause if I read two more articles saying rabbits can eat cauliflower and the other saying they can’t...my brain might explode.


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Theres no right answer. Pellets are a relatively cheap & convenient way to feed bunnies but theeasiest way to get them fat & have excess calcium in their diet. Frances Harcourt Brown has done loads of really useful work on rabbits diet & works from the premise that a domestic bunnies diet should be as close as possible to a wildies diet. She feeds hers grass, hay, forage & occassional tiny bits of fruit. A pellet free diet would be the most ideal IMO, however I've never been brave enough to try it on Joey & Boo who adore nugget time. For my elderly skinny Mouse I couldn't keep her going without nuggets - she won't eat long enough to get calories from other foods. Its all very personal & needs tailoring to each individual rabbit.

My vet recommended Science selective . I think they are a good brand & generally get better feedback than Excel (which I found dog food in recently). Here's the ingredients for the regular ones

Alfalfa meal, soybean hulls, wheat, wheatfeed, flaked peas, linseed, beet pulp, soybeanmeal, soya oil, monocalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate.

Then last time I tried to buy them they only had SS House Rabbit Nuggets which have completely different ingredients (I like the sound of these better but I really don't know whats better)
Timothy Hay, Wheat, Soya Bean Hulls, Soya Bean Meal, Dried Grass, Ground Dried Locust Bean Husks, Flaked Peas, Linseeds, Soya Bean Oil, Dried Thyme, Calcium Carbonate, Prebiotics (MOS), Yucca Extract
 
I know SS do like a grain free one which is what I was originally planning to put my rabbits on. The shelter that they came from said they tried them on that but they just didn’t like them. No point opting for a “healthier” pellet if they won’t eat them.

I’d happily go pellet free if I was confident they ate enough hay...but they don’t. I’m going through different taster hay packs at the minute to see what they are fond of. They don’t get a lot of veg because it doesn’t always agree with them but they do get healthy amounts of forage and herbs. The occasional bit of fruit as a treat.

I think I was just stumped because most pellets include soy. Including the big and vet recommended brands like Oxbow. So if it was so bad...why would they recommend these pellets?

And legumes. Why is that a bad ingredient?

Surely these things are in such small quantities that it shouldn’t make a huge difference? & seeing as pellets are a bit of a supplement/treat item more than anything it’s not something you give a lot of anyway.


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It’s not that I think if they have a little bit it’s okay by the way...I know I’m anxious and an over thinker, wanting the absolute best for my pets (which I know is the case for all of you) but things like this can make me spiral and worry I’m doing it all wrong. [emoji23]


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with pellet free, its more than just your rabbit needing to be a good hay eater.

pellet provides rabbits with the correct quantities of calcium, protein, extra fibre, and then vitamins. when you remove pellet, you essentially need to ensure your rabbit is indeed still getting the correct amount of nutrients in their diet. this comes with (usually) calculating vitamins the rabbit is getting from veggies to ensure that they stay healthy. pellet for this reason is generally a super important part of a rabbits diet & without it, you run risks of deficiencies.

in essence, pellet should be seen almost as a cheap multivitamin for your rabbit (not quite as it provides other nutrients too).

if you removed pellet, you'd be feeding larger quantities of veg in its place which would ultimately work out more expensive than a bag of pellet (and runs the risks of deficiencies if not done correctly).

some rabbits can't have pellet, it upsets their stomachs - but in turn their diets have to be altered to ensure they remain healthy.

as for soy, many dislike soy because its essentially a really cheap way for companies to bump up the fibre without paying out for more hay, so they keep the pellet "cheap". generally speaking, it would be far healthier/better for the rabbit to get their fibre in pellet from hay, rather then soy. I know I'd rather pay extra for a namely hay based pellet than a cheaper one that sources fibre from soy. not that its bad outright, its safe for rabbits, but its just "unnecessary" I suppose? idk, not sure on the word tbh. I guess just a company cutting corners for cheap ingredients when it would be better if all the fibre was from hay (but this would cost more).
 
RinnyRin said:
I know SS do like a grain free one which is what I was originally planning to put my rabbits on. The shelter that they came from said they tried them on that but they just didn’t like them. No point opting for a “healthier” pellet if they won’t eat them.

I’d happily go pellet free if I was confident they ate enough hay...but they don’t. I’m going through different taster hay packs at the minute to see what they are fond of. They don’t get a lot of veg because it doesn’t always agree with them but they do get healthy amounts of forage and herbs. The occasional bit of fruit as a treat.

I think I was just stumped because most pellets include soy. Including the big and vet recommended brands like Oxbow. So if it was so bad...why would they recommend these pellets?

And legumes. Why is that a bad ingredient?

Surely these things are in such small quantities that it shouldn’t make a huge difference? & seeing as pellets are a bit of a supplement/treat item more than anything it’s not something you give a lot of anyway.


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Click to expand...

I agree. If they are well tolerated by your bunnies (as they are by most) I see no harm with continuing feeding them, as you say as 'supplement' more than anything. I think if soy was a problem ingredient then our rabbit savvy vets would be advising against their use. I don't know why pea plant / legumes feature so heavily in rabbit food, even in muesli they have pea flakes
 
binkyCodie said:
with pellet free, its more than just your rabbit needing to be a good hay eater.

pellet provides rabbits with the correct quantities of calcium, protein, extra fibre, and then vitamins. when you remove pellet, you essentially need to ensure your rabbit is indeed still getting the correct amount of nutrients in their diet. this comes with (usually) calculating vitamins the rabbit is getting from veggies to ensure that they stay healthy. pellet for this reason is generally a super important part of a rabbits diet & without it, you run risks of deficiencies.

in essence, pellet should be seen almost as a cheap multivitamin for your rabbit (not quite as it provides other nutrients too).

if you removed pellet, you'd be feeding larger quantities of veg in its place which would ultimately work out more expensive than a bag of pellet (and runs the risks of deficiencies if not done correctly).

some rabbits can't have pellet, it upsets their stomachs - but in turn their diets have to be altered to ensure they remain healthy.

as for soy, many dislike soy because its essentially a really cheap way for companies to bump up the fibre without paying out for more hay, so they keep the pellet "cheap". generally speaking, it would be far healthier/better for the rabbit to get their fibre in pellet from hay, rather then soy. I know I'd rather pay extra for a namely hay based pellet than a cheaper one that sources fibre from soy. not that its bad outright, its safe for rabbits, but its just "unnecessary" I suppose? idk, not sure on the word tbh. I guess just a company cutting corners for cheap ingredients when it would be better if all the fibre was from hay (but this would cost more).
Click to expand...

Oh oh, I know just hay isn’t enough. I was just speaking generally, but I should have made it more clear.

Cost isn’t really an factor (for me). I more want to understand if having a pellet that contains these ingredients will negatively impact their health. I’m happy to buy a pellet that is Timothy based - I’d prefer that. But it seems these pellets still often contain small/trace amount of soy based ingredients.


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joey&boo said:
I agree. If they are well tolerated by your bunnies (as they are by most) I see no harm with continuing feeding them, as you say as 'supplement' more than anything. I think if soy was a problem ingredient then our rabbit savvy vets would be advising against their use. I don't know why pea plant / legumes feature so heavily in rabbit food, even in muesli they have pea flakes
Click to expand...

Maybe to make them more palatable? I know pea flakes are often given as treats....


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RinnyRin said:
Oh oh, I know just hay isn’t enough. I was just speaking generally, but I should have made it more clear.

Cost isn’t really an factor (for me). I more want to understand if having a pellet that contains these ingredients will negatively impact their health. I’m happy to buy a pellet that is Timothy based - I’d prefer that. But it seems these pellets still often contain small/trace amount of soy based ingredients.


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Click to expand...

unfortunately in the UK there isn't a pellet on the market that doesn't contain soy afaik. its not harmful at all, its just many would rather have the fibre content come from hay vs soy, which is just a cheap filler / fibre ingredient ^^
 
binkyCodie said:
unfortunately in the UK there isn't a pellet on the market that doesn't contain soy afaik. its not harmful at all, its just many would rather have the fibre content come from hay vs soy, which is just a cheap filler / fibre ingredient ^^
Click to expand...

That’s good to know.

This person’s (no shade on them at all, they are spreading the good word on rabbit welfare) replies just left me a bit baffled and a little anxious. I don’t know what qualifications they have to judge a rabbit’s diet but when someone says something, I tend to take what they say as true unless I prove it otherwise in my own research.

They made the comment about Marriages pellets but also said that their website doesn’t release an ingredients list - so they can’t really make comment unless they’ve seen the ingredient list.

Which led me here (and to Dr Google)!


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We were nugget free for a long time as our bridge bun Primrose couldn't tolerate them.

Our vet recommended reintroducing them for Rodney and Blossom and recommended science selective for them. Just to make sure they have full cover of vitamins as Rodney is picky when unwell.

I've gone for grain free and they love them. Only 20g a day to share (both 2.1kg buns) as the packets always recommend far too many.

I am tempted by the house rabbit one as well so may transition them into that at some point.

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joey&boo said:
I don't know why pea plant / legumes feature so heavily in rabbit food, even in muesli they have pea flakes
Click to expand...
High fibre carbohydrates: legumes are the seed bit of the plant so have high carboydrate (sugar for growth, starch for stability), and the more-sugar ones (seed-type stuff) will be tastier. Charlie used to eat the pea and sweetcorn flakes first XD

I'll link to the usual comparison chart: http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/rabbit-food-comparison.asp

Other food (veg, greens, forage) there's a lot of conflicting advice :thumb: Some definite nos and some definite yeses, but lots of maybes!
 
keletkezes said:
High fibre carbohydrates: legumes are the seed bit of the plant so have high carboydrate (sugar for growth, starch for stability), and the more-sugar ones (seed-type stuff) will be tastier. Charlie used to eat the pea and sweetcorn flakes first XD

I'll link to the usual comparison chart: http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/rabbit-food-comparison.asp

Other food (veg, greens, forage) there's a lot of conflicting advice :thumb: Some definite nos and some definite yeses, but lots of maybes!
Click to expand...

What an absolute day dream you are!

There is a lot of conflicting advice and it seriously makes your head spin! I think there are some definite nos but I think other things are individual for your rabbits and what they can tolerate. What one can, another can’t despite the fact it’s supposed to be beneficial...and taste preference.


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If anyone is interested (I’m starting to sound obsessed with the brand)...

Marriages Nutri Pressed Rabbit Pellets:

Grasses (Timothy, Meadow Fescue, Sweet Verbal)(27%), Soya Bean Hulls (GM), Cereal Straw (treated), Peas, Sunflower seed meal, Cooked Full Fat Linseed Meal (2%) Vegetable Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Vitamin & Mineral Premix, Short Chain Fructo-oligosaccharides (Prebiotics)(0.25%), Live Yeast* (Probiotic**), DL-Methionine, Chamomile, Dandelion (0.1%), Nettle (0.1%), Lysine, Yucca schidigera (0.03%).

*without grain or dairy
** Saccharimyces cerevisiae

As for Nutritional Values/Analytical Constituents:

Crude Protein 14.6%
Crude Fibre 24.2%
Crude Oils & fats 4.4%
Crude Ash 9.1%
Calcium 1%
Phosphorus 0.5%
Sodium 0.26%
Omega-3 0.65%
Omega-6 0.89%

Total Dietary Fibre 43%

Nutritional Additives (Per KG)

Vitamin A 18000iu
Vitamin D3 1989iu
Vitamin E 96mg
Copper 4mg
Iodine 0.99mg
Iron 26.4mg
Manganese 56.1mg
Molybdenum 0.33mg
Selenium 0.13mg
Zinc 46.2mg
 
Hmm, it hits the upper limits of therabbithouse recommendations but exceeds the fibre which is good. I'm interested in the difference (to a rabbit, not the process!) between 'pressed' and 'extruded' pellets now, because I know extruded are talked about as best.

I like the Marriages website: they have the same 'rabbit weight' body shape chart as therabbithouse :) I do think their feed amounts are high but then we all know that's normal :lol:
 
keletkezes said:
Hmm, it hits the upper limits of therabbithouse recommendations but exceeds the fibre which is good. I'm interested in the difference (to a rabbit, not the process!) between 'pressed' and 'extruded' pellets now, because I know extruded are talked about as best.

I like the Marriages website: they have the same 'rabbit weight' body shape chart as therabbithouse :) I do think their feed amounts are high but then we all know that's normal :lol:
Click to expand...

I’m rather curious about the Supreme Fibre First, it has hit my interest. They suggest it can be fed freely [emoji848] just wonder if doing so discourages them from eating hay...pellets are like candies.

I am interested in the difference between extruded and pressed too. I think they break down differently?


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RinnyRin said:
Also, Beaphar’s nature rabbit food is the cutest! Heart Shaped Nuggies!


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Click to expand...
I was feeding this. It was excellent food, mainly grass and a high fibre content. Unfortunately they've just discontinued it. [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]

There's nothing similar, but I've moved my buns onto rosewood Meadow Menu. Which has no yeast, sugar or soya!

It does have broad bean flakes though, but I was driving myself crazy like you. Searching and searching. [emoji3064]

The buns love it and its a nice large pellet like the Beaphar one, so it takes them a while to grind them in their little mouths.

Mine only get 15g each a day, gives them the nutrients they need and them have enough room to eat loads of hay and forage.

The only thing is its a bit too low of phosphorus, however my thought was I expect they get some from their hay and forage!

My buns couldn't tolerate excel stuff. Gave them bad gas. I was considering the grain free SS, but decided to try the Meadow Menu.
 
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