Bonding help please - experience needed

Bella and Fluffy are our 2 year old rabbits who have been bonded since November 2019. They are not related and both are fixed. Bella was with us first and around 6 months later we ended up getting Fluffy unexpectedly and took him on as a rescue. We started the bonding process and it took us around 3-4 months to bond them and up until a few of months ago they had been completely fine. Bella was dominant (and frequently displays this) and Fluffy was seemingly happy being the submissive one in the pair. That was until Fluffy started to show traits like making a noise (a low grunt) which he makes repeatedly when he is excited but also runs over to Bella doing this. Sometimes this noise is followed by mounting her (front on), which obviously scares her and causes her to make a sound almost like a low pitched squeak (not a squeal, but I think it is out of fear). When he mounts her I remove him because of how stressed Bella gets but often she starts squeaking in fear even before I get there and this often persists after it has happened when he approaches or, or even when we approach her if it was really bad. I know it might seem strange that I haven’t separated them yet, but the thing is this only tends to occur early morning and late evening (when they are most active) and they will lie next to eachother and flop near one another during the day. I have tried putting them in a small area to work out whatever is going on and usually Bella will mount Fluffy (since she is dominant) but once they are let out Fluffy will often return to making the grunt and following her even after this (not immediately but a few hours later or the next morning). I’ve tried moving Fluffy away from her when he mounts her and saying ‘no’ and comforting Bella but it doesn’t seem to help. As Bella is already a very anxious rabbit, when Fluffy mounts her she just cowers and fails to react (not mounting him to put him in his place as she usually does). I have to separate them at hours at a time for this reason because Bella gets easily stressed as I mentioned and as they both have other health conditions (both snuffles bunnies) and Bella is stasis-prone anyways I can’t afford them to get too stressed. In the time they are separated, I have to keep Bella with me and she seems unaffected that he is gone and will binky, eat etc. but when he returns she does greet him and usually ends up laying next to and grooming him. Bella has also had experienced stasis recently (in January) and seemed to show signs of gut slowdown even more recently which our vet knows about and we are dealing with but I am unsure if the cause was related to being stressed with Fluffy or her other medical conditions were responsible. I am so confused because one minute they’re fine and the next they’re not. I don’t know the cause and so I really don’t know where to go from here: if separating them temporarily and attempting to rebond is the only option or if there is something else I can try. I also don’t know if this would resolve the problem either or just cause even more stress. Any advice is greatly appreciated

When was Fluffy castrated and are you sure he is only 2? Hormonal behaviour in older neutered Bucks can be due to a problem with the Adrenal Glands. Adrenal Gland Hyperplasia.

Every time you intervene when he mounts Bella he will just feel the need to do it more .If he is mounting her as the dynamics of their bond is changing and he is now boss you need to go along with that. As much as you will want to ‘tell him off ‘ and comfort Bella this too will just drive his need to assert dominant behaviour. How long have you just left them to it and observed from a distance before intervening ?

What is their accommodation set up like ?

When were both Rabbits last examined by a Vet ? Health problems can effect the dynamics of a bond and as both Rabbits already have health problems a thorough examination by a Rabbit Savvy Vet would also be advisable.

Are they hurting one another? If not maybe they are just doing rabbity things. The boy really should be the dominant one and the female should submit. This levels out once the female knows her place and they sometimes will mount the male but he will put her in her place. Some females try to dominate the boy but don't usually get away with it. Now we have longer days, hormonal behaviour is occurring between some pairs so perhaps this has something to do with it. I agree also with Inspector Morse but you may just have 2 Rabbits which behave this way at times. I would endeavour to ascertain why your female has suffered gut stasis, are they moulting and do they eat plenty of hay and a small amount of pellets? It could be stress related but I don't think so in this case.

Fluffy was neutered around 1 year old due to him being a rescue. He will be turning 3 in around February/March time we think. He was from pets at home originally and we knew the previous owner so are pretty sure of his age. How could we know if there is a problem with his adrenal gland? Is this likely as he was neutered almost 2 years ago?

The problem is that if I don’t intervene, Bella gets far too stressed and squeaks louder and louder and almost freezes, the stress really seems too much with her being so anxious. Also, I think we’ve established that Bella doesn’t want to submit. We weren’t sure in the beginning if she would but she has made it pretty clear that she wouldn’t (she still mounts and chases him - not aggressively - and Fluffy will accept being mounted when confined as I mentioned). She also exhibits other dominant behaviours, along with the fact that she was here first (this was her ‘territory’ before his), and she is fairly bigger than Fluffy which can also play a part in dominance as I’ve read.

They are free roam house rabbits who spend most of their day in my room and in their kitchen set up at night. They have lots of hideouts but the problem is Fluffy will often corner Bella in these, hence why I’ve been separating them.

They are at the vets pretty often (usually once a month) as I mentioned they have been diagnosed with pasturella and we are still trying to work out the best combination of treatments/management for them.

InspectorMorse said:

When was Fluffy castrated and are you sure he is only 2? Hormonal behaviour in older neutered Bucks can be due to a problem with the Adrenal Glands. Adrenal Gland Hyperplasia.

Every time you intervene when he mounts Bella he will just feel the need to do it more .If he is mounting her as the dynamics of their bond is changing and he is now boss you need to go along with that. As much as you will want to ‘tell him off ‘ and comfort Bella this too will just drive his need to assert dominant behaviour. How long have you just left them to it and observed from a distance before intervening ?

What is their accommodation set up like ?

When were both Rabbits last examined by a Vet ? Health problems can effect the dynamics of a bond and as both Rabbits already have health problems a thorough examination by a Rabbit Savvy Vet would also be advisable.

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I’ve seen small clumps of fur which they have pulled out of one another when mounting, but this is usually when I have put them on a small place to work it out.

As I mentioned, I really don’t think Bella will accept being dominant. She is the bigger one. She was here first. And she still shows dominant behaviours frequently (she tends to try and mount Fluffy and will chase him to do so if he doesn’t immediately accept). She also will show dominance by choosing to go into the litter tray that he is already him and get him out by placing her chin on his back (as if she is going to mount him) which Fluffy then moves for pretty quickly. Fluffy also has only ever mounted Bella front on which is another reason I remove him as this could cause injury. I’m not sure she could ever take it if he mounted her from the back as she could react more easily.

We are in ongoing and frequent discussions with our vet about their health conditions. Their diet is 80% hay, 10% vegetables 5% pellets and 5% healthy treats so I really don’t think this is the cause. They are also brushed frequently as I am very aware of how fur can cause blockages so keep on top of this.

tonibun said:

Are they hurting one another? If not maybe they are just doing rabbity things. The boy really should be the dominant one and the female should submit. This levels out once the female knows her place and they sometimes will mount the male but he will put her in her place. Some females try to dominate the boy but don't usually get away with it. Now we have longer days, hormonal behaviour is occurring between some pairs so perhaps this has something to do with it. I agree also with Inspector Morse but you may just have 2 Rabbits which behave this way at times. I would endeavour to ascertain why your female has suffered gut stasis, are they moulting and do they eat plenty of hay and a small amount of pellets? It could be stress related but I don't think so in this case.

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I had a stasis bun who couldn't tolerate nuggets so it may be worth phasing those out to see if it has any impact.

Also healthy treats can sometimes be triggering, that same bun had a sugar intolerance so she just couldn't have some of the healthy treats as they had fruit in them but hay based ones that weren't fruity were fine.

We ended up doing an almost food diary type thing to try and work out any patterns that triggered it. And both our buns got gassy with brassicas like broccoli etc so we dont feed those much, just a tiny bit of broccoli at Christmas lol.

Rodney isnt that fussed about mounting but the times he mounted Primrose it was always backwards the silly thing. I usually pushed his bum to the side to avoid injury but left him on top so to speak but Primrose wasn't really distressed so I'm not sure if that would help.

It could be his spring behaviour coming in? They do get more frisky now.

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Hi, I could be wrong but I really don’t think the nuggets are what are causing it. They are fed Marriages cold pressed pellets which are meant to be much easier for them to break down and move in the gut more easily, as well as having more nutrients than most pellets so I wouldn’t really want to take her off them completely. They only have around 1/4 cup per day and we are considering lowering that gradually anyways.

The healthy treats I mentioned are largely the Naturals woodland loops and sticks which are hay based already. The only other treats they have are very small amounts of banana (which she loves) and apple which are given no more than once a day.

I’ve never fed broccoli as I’ve heard it can cause gas so have avoided it for this reason. I am also mindful of gas in the types of veg I give them (I avoid most cabbages other than spring greens when they are in season).

That’s the problem we’re having, Fluffy mounts Bella backwards only which obviously can cause harm in itself.

I started seeing the first signs around October/November time so I’m not sure if it is spring behaviour as it has lasted so long.

Thank you for your help though!

CarelessSquid07 said:

I had a stasis bun who couldn't tolerate nuggets so it may be worth phasing those out to see if it has any impact.

Also healthy treats can sometimes be triggering, that same bun had a sugar intolerance so she just couldn't have some of the healthy treats as they had fruit in them but hay based ones that weren't fruity were fine.

We ended up doing an almost food diary type thing to try and work out any patterns that triggered it. And both our buns got gassy with brassicas like broccoli etc so we dont feed those much, just a tiny bit of broccoli at Christmas lol.

Rodney isnt that fussed about mounting but the times he mounted Primrose it was always backwards the silly thing. I usually pushed his bum to the side to avoid injury but left him on top so to speak but Primrose wasn't really distressed so I'm not sure if that would help.

It could be his spring behaviour coming in? They do get more frisky now.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

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