Bonding a Quad Advice

Any tips for bonding a quad? What's 'normal' to expect in the first few days?

We started to bond Maple and Lily with Hamilton and Jellybean yesterday. We put them in our newly renovated utility room (which is just an empty room right now) - it's a similar size to their shed so quite a good not too big, not too small space to put them all in together.

So far there's been nothing to cause alarm, but it is obviously stressful to watch them all chasing each other around. Mainly Hamilton trying to hump the girls and Jellybean nipping at Maple, (she likes Lily but seems to not like Maple, I think because Maple is the dominant female of the two so it's a hierarchy battle type-thing to be the Queen Bee).

We had to move them into the shed this morning, which is not ideal, but our builder is coming to lay the floor in the utility room and there was no other day he could do it for the next month. We cleaned the shed well and moved things about to make it a bit more neutral (although obviously Maple and Lily don't know the space and the other two are very familiar with it)

It has been much of the same in there and right now they're all sleeping. Is it usual to feel guilt/stress when bonding rabbits? Both pairs were quite happy as they were before and I can't help but wonder if this isn't in their best interests, but it has only been 24 hours. Lily and Maple have such a beautiful sister bond and I don't want to ruin it. But right now they just have a hutch and the shed would be a much nicer home for them. I would love them as house rabbits but our house is tiny and the only spare room we have is an office.

1 by Rachel Brown, on Flickr

1-1 by Rachel Brown, on Flickr

Here’s a link to my thread from years ago when I bonded 2 pairs into a quad http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?402162-U-d-2-weeks-after-Bonding-a-quad
Bonding is stressful, good luck!

This thread may be useful too

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?479957-Rabbit-Bonding-Videos!&highlight=Bonding

Edited to add that personally I would have quarantined the new arrivals for a couple of weeks, especially as they are unvaccinated.. Also, it gives you time to get to know what the new Rabbit’s ‘normal’ behaviour is like . Perhaps you have done this. If the new Rabbits are not neutered that could make the bonding more of a challenge, but I expect you know that

Sometimes I have found it best not to have litter trays as the Rabbis can become territorial of them. Good luck with it all, as Zoobec has said bonding is certainly stressful x

Beapig said:

Is it usual to feel guilt/stress when bonding rabbits?

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Absolutely: am I doing the right thing, is this in their best interests, is one going to be left out/victimised, have I destroyed something that worked in an attempt at somethigng that just won't... All great questions that will be answered with time and, quite often, it all turns out fine.

InspectorMorse said:

This thread may be useful too

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?479957-Rabbit-Bonding-Videos!&highlight=Bonding

Edited to add that personally I would have quarantined the new arrivals for a couple of weeks, especially as they are unvaccinated.. Also, it gives you time to get to know what the new Rabbit’s ‘normal’ behaviour is like . Perhaps you have done this. If the new Rabbits are not neutered that could make the bonding more of a challenge, but I expect you know that

Sometimes I have found it best not to have litter trays as the Rabbis can become territorial of them. Good luck with it all, as Zoobec has said bonding is certainly stressful x

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Yeah I do agree Jane, not ideal at all. The reason that we rushed into it is that the hutch we were given with them is not in great condition and I want them to both have a much better setup before the winter comes. We gave them a bigger run space yesterday which meant moving them a lot closer to Ham & Jelly, and they all got frenzied when they could see each other. I worried that grudges/misconceptions could be formed before they even get put in the same space. It is not an ideal situation by any means.

The bond is going okay so far though - they have all calmed down a lot now and are just hanging out. Only time will tell if they're right together.

Zoobec, thank you for linking me your experience - I have read it all and will no doubt refer to it!

Keletkezes, I appreciate you saying that, it makes me feel less alone in it all! Right now am I worried that Maple is the 'left out' one because Jellybean sees her as a threat. We will give it a few days, but if I feel that they aren't suited together I'll move mountains to make sure both pairs have the best quality of life in different accommodations. I adopted these bunnies to give them a better life so what ever is in their best interests, I'll make it happen somehow

My greatest times of self doubt have been during bunny bonding - i think its totally normal to feel stress & doubt. I don't have any advice but from what you've said it seems to be going well. Wishing you lots of luck

If I were not so disabled I would attempt to bond Aoife and Endeavour into a quad with Dara and John-Joe. But I know I could not cope with all the stress !

joey&boo said:

My greatest times of self doubt have been during bunny bonding - i think its totally normal to feel stress & doubt. I don't have any advice but from what you've said it seems to be going well. Wishing you lots of luck

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I'm so glad it's not only me! Thanks for the reassurance joey&boo <3

I agree Jane it is so much stress, not worth it! :lol: Besides, your two duos look really happy together as they are

I agree with others, bonding is so so stressful. I actually think your bunnies are all doing pretty well so far, judging by your description and the pics. I think a bond with 3 does was never going to be the easiest of mixes, but if I were you I would feel pretty happy about it so far. I'm not surprised that the girls are 'sorting out their heirarchy' I have also not included any litter trays when bonding, but if it's causing no problem, then fine.

I hope it goes well

It does sound like it's going OK so I hope that continues, and from what I remember of other's threads is often one bunny will be alone for some time, like it's been left out, but if who the 'lonely' one is keeps changing then that's usually a good sign, but the bond might take a while to settle into that sort of routine. Time is a horrible thing because it gives you time to think and yet also the best thing because things just need time to settle :lol: I mean, my two spend a lot of time apart and you would think they were just two coexisting sigle buns 50% of the time :lol: I blame Lopsy, he's the comon denominator in all this ;P

Bonding update So they've all been together about 48 hours now. They had a 'sleepover' in the shed last night and this morning they all tucked into some greens together. Hamilton has stopped being such a 'boy' and is just very chill now. Lily seems very content and curious. The tension that remains is between Jellybean and Maple - both still wanting to stay Queen Bee and both being stubborn about it? There's actually been almost zero fur pulling or nipping, mainly just foot stomping and giving each other evil eyes :lol:

Now that we're on the third day of bonding/second day in the shed I hope that things might settle down a bit. I do feel very bad that Maple and Lily seem split up from each other right now, because they used to groom snuggle/love on each other all day every day. I don't want that to change. If Jellybean and Maple haven't clicked in a week or so then I think the right thing to do would be to put them back into two duos and I'll have to come up with a grand scheme of two different setups for them.

Would love to know what you guys think? I've never seen two bunnies so in love as Maple and Lily and I don't want to take that away from them.

It is day four now. Maple is still fearful of Jellybean and Jelly still chases her when she feels like she's 'in her way'. Both Lily and Maple are fine with Hamilton. My gut feeling is that it is never going to work out because Jellybean is too territorial a rabbit. She's fine with Lily, but Lily is still on edge around her. What do you guys think? I want to split them up but my OH is being stubborn. I feel like by the fourth day, if they're not all relaxed, that's not a good sign. Hmmmm I need advice

I would normally go with your gut. If it’s not going badly, rather just that there are issues, then it is possible it will resolve in time, though. I think you will need to watch them carefully, in case anything escalates. Sounds like Maple has trust issues and Jelly is making the most of that. Difficult for Maple or indeed anybun to learn to trust another. Can you keep encouraging them to interact, with forage etc.

Bonding is so difficult and stressful at times!

Beapig said:

It is day four now. Maple is still fearful of Jellybean and Jelly still chases her when she feels like she's 'in her way'. Both Lily and Maple are fine with Hamilton. My gut feeling is that it is never going to work out because Jellybean is too territorial a rabbit. She's fine with Lily, but Lily is still on edge around her. What do you guys think? I want to split them up but my OH is being stubborn. I feel like by the fourth day, if they're not all relaxed, that's not a good sign. Hmmmm I need advice

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Personally I would give it a bit longer. If you were experiencing aggression, I would probably think differently. What you've got atm might be an indication that it's never going to be much different. However, bonding is really all about rabbits trusting each other and it may be that all of the girls need a bit longer to feel they are at that stage.

I don't think that any rabbit is massively losing out currently, which would prompt me to separate. There will come a time when you will need to consider the weather, if you are considering having the two new girls inside. I think you've got a little time before that's an issue.

Beapig said:

It is day four now. Maple is still fearful of Jellybean and Jelly still chases her when she feels like she's 'in her way'. Both Lily and Maple are fine with Hamilton. My gut feeling is that it is never going to work out because Jellybean is too territorial a rabbit. She's fine with Lily, but Lily is still on edge around her. What do you guys think? I want to split them up but my OH is being stubborn. I feel like by the fourth day, if they're not all relaxed, that's not a good sign. Hmmmm I need advice

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When we were bonding our trio, Phillip could be like this with Britney and Whitney, and still is now to an extent when around food. The girls are both very nervous rabbits and it took a long time for them to fully trust him. Sometimes they would flinch when he came towards them. They did learn to trust him and have been a fully bonded trio for months now. I can see why you're worried and obviously only you know their personalities, but I think I'd personally give it a little longer.

Thank you for your advice everyone, it's a lot to consider. I think the reason that I feel overly cautious about this is that Jellybean and Beatrice never hit it off and they were living together for a long time but nothing changed. I even wonder if Beatrice's twisted bowel could have been caused by Jellybean lunging at her. My biggest regret is that I didn't split them up and I just let them live side by side in constant tension of each other.

Jellybean is a very dominant rabbit - she'll grunt at me if I sweep up the poos, will lunge for food, charge...she's definitely on the aggressive side as far as bunnies go. Hamilton is mega laid back and a boy, which is why I think he puts up with her personality haha.

I just don't want to make anybun unhappy. Maple and Lily haven't sat together or groomed each other since the start of this process, which makes me feel so sad

Do you think your OH is being stubborn because he really wants it to work or because he really believes it will? I only ask as you two are the best judges since you're seeing everything but also getting extras like the atmostphere & knowing your bunnies. If only we had a crystal ball so we could tell if Jelly is likely to mellow

joey&boo said:

Do you think your OH is being stubborn because he really wants it to work or because he really believes it will? I only ask as you two are the best judges since you're seeing everything but also getting extras like the atmostphere & knowing your bunnies. If only we had a crystal ball so we could tell if Jelly is likely to mellow

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I think my OH just really wanted it to work out because of the inconvenience of having two different setups. He came out to watch them with me though and agreed that Jellybean was being too horrible, so we moved them back into their own space. When I picked up Maple her bottom was covered in wee because I think she was too scared to use the litter trays so just peed on herself

As soon as we moved them back into their old setup they were both instantly calm and started grooming and snuggling with each other. I think it's definitely the right decision for everyone. As much as I love Jellybean, she's not a bun's bun and it's unfair to all involved to try and force them to like each other. We already have a few ideas on how to give them a really great setup in time for the winter. I myself feel so much less stressed now that they're happy again - I've hardly slept for the past four nights!

good to hear you're feeling better & all positive bunny relationships are restored