Bunnies on metacam forever

So Mousey, like many of the best bunnies on here, is on Metacam for life. She is only on a small dose, twice daily. She hasn't had her bloods done for approx 9 months though when last checked they were fine.

So I've a few questions about your experiences please?

Has anybun had bloods done to check long term metacam isn't adversely affecting their organs & found values that mean their vet isn't happy to prescribe Metacam anymore? If so, what happened in terms of their pain relief?

joey&boo said:

So Mousey, like many of the best bunnies on here, is on Metacam for life. She is only on a small dose, twice daily. She hasn't had her bloods done for approx 9 months though when last checked they were fine.

So I've a few questions about your experiences please?

Has anybun had bloods done to check long term metacam isn't adversely affecting their organs & found values that mean their vet isn't happy to prescribe Metacam anymore? If so, what happened in terms of their pain relief?

Click to expand...

I have never had a Bunny on long term Meloxicam who developed any kidney/liver problems or any other problem meaning that Meloxicam could not be continued.

If this were to happen, which on a very low dose I think would be unlikely, then the Vet would consider a different type of analgesia to prescribe. Or it may be a case of accepting that long term Meloxicam is needed to give the Rabbit quality of life, in the knowledge that doing so may reduce the quantity of life. Personally I would much rather the Rabbit were comfortable for maybe a shorter life expectancy rather than to be in discomfort much of the time. That in itself could bring other problems such as pain related gut stasis.

I dont think there can ever be a one size fits all, the Vet would need to take a holistic approach for the individual Rabbit

My only Metacam for life bunnies have been in kidney failure and it was a case of quality over quantity. I am guessing it would be the same for arthritis. It will be interesting to see responses.

Jack's-Jane said:

I have never had a Bunny on long term Meloxicam who developed any kidney/liver problems or any other problem meaning that Meloxicam could not be continued.

If this were to happen, which on a very low dose I think would be unlikely, then the Vet would consider a different type of analgesia to prescribe. Or it may be a case of accepting that long term Meloxicam is needed to give the Rabbit quality of life, in the knowledge that doing so may reduce the quantity of life. Personally I would much rather the Rabbit were comfortable for maybe a shorter life expectancy rather than to be in discomfort much of the time. That in itself could bring other problems such as pain related gut stasis.

I dont think there can ever be a one size fits all, the Vet would need to take a holistic approach for the individual Rabbit

Click to expand...

Thats reassurring that you haven't experienced any problems - esp since you've cared for so many rabbits in your life.

I totally agree about quality over quantity of life. Rude boy was prescribed it after his CRF diagnosis (on the basis it was likely he would experience bone pain - he had calcification of bones showing on xray). I was wondering what the point of bloods is if Mouse would continue to be prescribed it; I know they'll normally titrate down but for Mouse I see her pain relief going up not down at her next review - obv thats up to her vet.

Bunny Buddy said:

My only Metacam for life bunnies have been in kidney failure and it was a case of quality over quantity. I am guessing it would be the same for arthritis. It will be interesting to see responses.

Click to expand...

Thanks BB. Yes I'm interested to see if any vets have changed prescribing on account of kidney / liver function

Not about metacam but I found an old rabbiting on article about using Evening Primrose Oil (it gives dosing) for arthritic buns. I bought some but too chicken to use it. Does anyone have any thoughts?

joey&boo said:

Thats reassurring that you haven't experienced any problems - esp since you've cared for so many rabbits in your life.

I totally agree about quality over quantity of life. Rude boy was prescribed it after his CRF diagnosis (on the basis it was likely he would experience bone pain - he had calcification of bones showing on xray). I was wondering what the point of bloods is if Mouse would continue to be prescribed it; I know they'll normally titrate down but for Mouse I see her pain relief going up not down at her next review - obv thats up to her vet.

Click to expand...

As I said, no one size fits all. If you and the Vet conclude that Mousey will remain on Meloxicam regardless of any abnormal blood test results then IMO there is no point in doing the blood tests. Rather like if a health compromised very elderly Bunny has a lump somewhere. What is the point of having a full biopsy done if the owner and the Vet would not put Bunny through invasive surgery even if the lump were to be malignant. It's a case of weighing up risks and benefits for the individual Rabbit, always putting quality of life first. And I know for certain you always do that for your Bunnies

joey&boo said:

Not about metacam but I found an old rabbiting on article about using Evening Primrose Oil (it gives dosing) for arthritic buns. I bought some but too chicken to use it. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Click to expand...

I think as with all complimentary treatments, as long as they do not have the potential to do any harm then I'd give them a go. Whether they help or not will remain to be seen. Believe it or not I am not anti complimentary treatments !! Far from it. Turmeric has a good rep for many inflammatory conditions as well as arthritis. If your Vet is open minded about the use of complimentary treatments then I'd speak with her/him about it. Some Vets are totally closed off to anything other than conventional medicine, but many are not. I will add that it is usually a good idea to mention to the Vet if you do use any complimentary treatments/supplements. Sometimes these can interact badly with conventional medication.

I haven't seen any information regarding Evening Primrose Oil and Ostearthritis treatment for rabbits. I have just tried googling and also not turned anything up. What did the Rabbiting On article say?

Jack's-Jane said:

I think as with all complimentary treatments, as long as they do not have the potential to do any harm then I'd give them a go. Whether they help or not will remain to be seen. Believe it or not I am not anti complimentary treatments !! Far from it. Turmeric has a good rep for many inflammatory conditions as well as arthritis. If your Vet is open minded about the use of complimentary treatments then I'd speak with her/him about it. Some Vets are totally closed off to anything other than conventional medicine, but many are not. I will add that it is usually a good idea to mention to the Vet if you do use any complimentary treatments/supplements. Sometimes these can interact badly with conventional medication.

Click to expand...

I knew that about Tumeric - difficult to imagine how to dose a bunny though isn't it. Same with Omega 3 (Becky or maybe Heather said their were clinical trials supporting its use) but she couldn't really advise on sources or doses . I like complimentary medicines - complimentary being the operative word, to support not replace medical treatment . I agree its just seeing if things help. That said I ran out of Mouseys joint support tabs (new order just arrived) & she seems a tad worse off. Of course that could be anything

Omi said:

I haven't seen any information regarding Evening Primrose Oil and Ostearthritis treatment for rabbits. I have just tried googling and also not turned anything up. What did the Rabbiting On article say?

Click to expand...

Now theres a memory test I've failed. I'll dig it out & have a re-read later. It wasn't suggesting it was definitely helpful more like some owners had experienced it to be that way

Following with great interest. Does anybun know exactly why Metacam causes kidney damage? Is it because of the sweetener it contains?

loobers25 said:

Following with great interest. Does anybun know exactly why Metacam causes kidney damage? Is it because of the sweetener it contains?

Click to expand...

from my understanding, its been observed in dogs & cats that metacam can impair the ability for the kidneys to function as they should. however.. dogs & cats are a world away from rabbits in terms of their digestive tracks & how they absorb medicine. technically a horse would be closer to a rabbit with digestive & how they digest medicine, with both being herbivores. it does suggest that metacam still effects horses in the same way (kidney damage). but even so, rabbits obviously aren't horses, and nobody has really studied rabbits & how they respond to metacam :lol: so its tricky.

Luna is on metacam for life, I think we put her on it around 2.5 when her hip x-rays came back wonky and showed arthritis due to a very very shallow hip socket (she sits froggy'd :lol. I still opt for a blood test each year to check her kidney function for peace of mind for me honestly.. that being said, her results came back *better* in 2018 than 2017's!! we also use acupuncture for when her hips flare up very bad, over trying to up the metacam. obviously its a treatment alongside it and not to replace it. but she's a doof, and sometimes over does it, pulling muscles and then ends up very sore, bless!

my vet said did discuss it with me, she said there's a risk in dogs & cats but in her years of treating rabbits she's yet to see a rabbit with kidney failure due to the metacam. most she's seen is if they've been already unwell / dodgy with their kidneys and thus its worsened it. majority have been safe with minimal issues. she said its more likely to be the abnormality for a rabbit to suffer kidney or liver failure due to metacam, over the norm.

that being said, I share the same views as Jane. I'd rather have 6 happy years with Luna, over 10 ones in which she is completely miserable. + I'd probably end up dead, she's quite viscous when she's in pain :lol:

Thanks BC. You made me laugh with your horse talk then but only cos I'd just been on the phone with my vet saying the same.

Good old metacam eh.

Well i spoke to Paul (vet). He was really good. He was concerned Eve' Primrose might upset her digestive system as he doesn't know the ins & outs of how rabbits process the fatty acids involved - something like that. We chatted about Tumeric & Green Lipped Muscle extract (used successfully in horses). I need to research but painfully aware done no actual work for days & days as been busy taking photos of cupboards

binkyCodie said:

from my understanding, its been observed in dogs & cats that metacam can impair the ability for the kidneys to function as they should. however.. dogs & cats are a world away from rabbits in terms of their digestive tracks & how they absorb medicine. technically a horse would be closer to a rabbit with digestive & how they digest medicine, with both being herbivores. it does suggest that metacam still effects horses in the same way (kidney damage). but even so, rabbits obviously aren't horses, and nobody has really studied rabbits & how they respond to metacam :lol: so its tricky.

Click to expand...

I remember asking JC about it last year, hang on let me find what he said...

Edit: Found it

He said all medicines have the potential to cause side effects, no matter how strong the dosage, so that’s why we have regular checkups and if anything changes then you can try different pain relief. He also said metacam generally doesn’t cause kidney problems unless there is something underlying and rabbits have a strong tolerance for it anyway.

Click to expand...

Phillip's not had a blood test since he went on it 2 years ago but I figure he'd have no quality of life without it so it's a risk I'm prepared to take

joey&boo said:

Thanks BC. You made me laugh with your horse talk then but only cos I'd just been on the phone with my vet saying the same.

Good old metacam eh.

Well i spoke to Paul (vet). He was really good. He was concerned Eve' Primrose might upset her digestive system as he doesn't know the ins & outs of how rabbits process the fatty acids involved - something like that. We chatted about Tumeric & Green Lipped Muscle extract (used successfully in horses). I need to research but painfully aware done no actual work for days & days as been busy taking photos of cupboards

Click to expand...

I'm impressed that he knows his stuff I think it's actually Green Lipped Mussel extract

I don't think I would ever consider using any alternative medicine on Tethra for his Arthritis, as I would be concerned that something within the product might upset other balances within his system, without there having been lots of serious trials on rabbits documented. I am not convinced that alternative medicine products help with humans suffering with Arthritis. If there is any benefit then I think it would be slow-acting and the benefit would be in preventing deterioration rather than reversing any existing damage.

I might think differently if Tethra were a very young rabbit, but in my view at his age I would prefer to just treat his pain and thus make him more comfortable in whatever time he has left. Similarly I would not check his bloods unless there were obvious reasons to do so.

joey&boo said:

Thanks BC. You made me laugh with your horse talk then but only cos I'd just been on the phone with my vet saying the same.

Good old metacam eh.

Well i spoke to Paul (vet). He was really good. He was concerned Eve' Primrose might upset her digestive system as he doesn't know the ins & outs of how rabbits process the fatty acids involved - something like that. We chatted about Tumeric & Green Lipped Muscle extract (used successfully in horses). I need to research but painfully aware done no actual work for days & days as been busy taking photos of cupboards

Click to expand...

A bit of light reading.................

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/art.22180

https://arthritis-research.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13075-016-1025-y

loobers25 said:

Following with great interest. Does anybun know exactly why Metacam causes kidney damage? Is it because of the sweetener it contains?

Click to expand...

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/medical/pain-management-rabbits/drug-focus-meloxicam/

https://innspub.net/ijb/effects-mel...ammatory-drug-biochemical-parameters-rabbits/

https://veterinary-practice.com/article/meloxicam-as-analgesic-for-rabbits

Our 9 year old Mini Lop has severe arthritis and is on Metacam for life. I too have had concerns about kidney damage, especially after talking with our vet about increasing his dosage.

After much research we decided to try a small dose of CBD Oil alongside his Metacam and the results were noticeable. His joints seem to be less inflamed and he can finally Binky again.

Our local vet was impressed with his progress and was happy for us to continue. Although I wouldn't stop using Metacam completely, this is definitely worth considering for long term pain relief.