Can our stress, stress out our rabbits?

Fudge has always had issues with excess cecotropes. Rabbits have suggested taking him off pellets (then gradually reducing foods), Fibreplex and probiotics etc. Nothing really seems to help other than taking him back to just hay and gradually adding things back in. Although he has arthritis (he's on painkillers twice per day), he's very active and doesn't seem to have any major limiting issues physically (maybe cleaning wax out of 1 ear in particular - he's had issues with needing it flushed since his partner Coco passed - she was very good at grooming him)- I see him eat his cecotropes. It happens in the night mostly - in the morning there is squished up cetropes all over the floor, when I pick him up to inspect him it's all over his belly, around his butt and on a bad day on his feet as well. It's not fully formed cecotopes, it's squished up so I can't tell what shape they are on the floor. The vet sometimes shaves him which helps a lot (he's quite fluffy) with keeping him clean.

There are no issues in the day generally unless it's whilst he is sleeping), it's like he just does them in his sleep and doesn't bother to move, just sleeps on them and squishes them all around. I'm googling this and not even sure if they are cetophrobes or cecal dysbiosis which I've only just heard of today.

But it's damn stressful cleaning him - for him and me. He tolerates it - I've found a quick rinse method or snip dried on tough poop on fur, off with scissors. But I hate it, obviously trying to stop the issue is preferable.

I have anxiety and depression, I try to battle them but at periods get very down. I get stressed out very easily since some workplace bullying basically sent me over the edge. I have been building my own business so I work from home now so am around Fudge a lot. My Mum suggested that maybe it happens when I get stressed out and I'm wondering if I could be the cause of it?

Take February for example, I was going away for a few weeks to try and get well and have a holiday (I have serious issues with depression in the winter), I was super stressed beforehand after a few things happened. He had been fine for a while and got poopy again. Now whilst I was away my partner looked after him and he got sorted out pretty fast. He then went ot my parents when my partner came to meet me on holiday, he was fine there.

I desperately want to leave the UK and so haven't felt it was possible to get him another rabbit. My dream is the get a visa for the USA and I can fly him there but trying to take 2 rabbits obviously gets a lot harder. He'll be 7 years old in December and if he passes before I manage to move I wouldn't want to get another bunny because I want to be free to travel. My current plan is get another older bunny for him once I get there. But let's just say anxiety and depression have held me back from building my business as fast as I like and instead of doing in 2018, I still am not at a place for applying for the visa yet.

The last few months he has been fine, he got a great clear run, I built his diet back up to 10 pellets a day (what one of the vets recommended) plus 4 types of vegetables/herbs per day, very limited amounts of fruit - I try and avoid sugar with him just in case. And then one day it's the messy cecotropes are back. This has been going on for longer than usual and I just can't seem to get his clear of it.

I'm stressed at the moment (issues with neighbours where I live), the depression and anxiety has risen in me again, I had done really well since the holiday. And I'm just wondering if it is me? Like is living with me just plain bad for him?

I've literally taken him down to hay and Pro-fibre pellets ( they are a probiotic pellet to encourage normal digestive function, containing soluble and insoluble fibre). It still wasn't helping so I felt so bad at him just having hay - he looked so upset. So when I did the purchase for timothy hay I ordered orchard grass as well (I had tried 3 different samples prior and he was fine with a little bit).

His regular timothy hay ran out, and started the new bag, but this was different - much softer (previously I had ordered soft timothy hay from the company - it's the one people recommend on here and that did seem to cause issues too, and well it seems like that).

I just don't know what to do, I don't know if not getting vegetables is stressing him out as he has such an appetite, he adores food - he literally does the honking and running around my feet in circles he gets so excited (he is neutered). Usually by now we've gone back to normal and started adding his regular food back in, but I just cannot get a handle on it.

He's such a lovely bunny and I really want him to have a happy life, but I'm starting to fell that my mental health issues are ruining his life and I just want him to be a happy healthy rabbit. Today he has darker torpedo shaped poop and reading up on it is worrying about megacolon, but he definitely doesn't have diarrhoea, no mucous and he hasn't lost weight, if anything he has gained it which I was surprised at. I read that the darker means too much protein, and orchard grass can do this so I will cut back on that or off completely for now. Then I read that cecal dysbiosis can be used by too much starch (maybe the Pro-Fibre has changed his poop). In himself he seems fine - healthy appetite, healthy weight, active etc. He has not been fed any commercial treats (or sugar/fruit etc).

I guess I'm just feeling out of options and wondering if I should try and find him a home with someone who has a female to bond him with.

I have this https://www.animeddirect.co.uk/protexin-professional-5g-sachet-single.html, that I previously ordered so tempted to try that today instead of the Pro-Fibre. Wondering if this is the cause of it not getting better - wheat and sugar beet in the ingredients so I'm pulling that today.

How long is it since he was last examined by a Vet ? I ask as if he has a chronic condition (arthritis) and is on daily medication this would need monitoring by the prescribing Vet. I am assuming that the medication he is on is Meloxicam (Metacam/Loxicom/Meloxaid ) ?

Whilst it can be possible for our Rabbits to pick up on our stress/anxiety, I think your Bunny's problems are likely to be related to his inability to get to his bum to eat his cecotrophs due to his arthritis. So in the first instance I'd get him examined by your Vet again if he has not been seen by him/her for some time.

Jack's-Jane said:

How long is it since he was last examined by a Vet ? I ask as if he has a chronic condition (arthritis) and is on daily medication this would need monitoring by the prescribing Vet. I am assuming that the medication he is on is Meloxicam (Metacam/Loxicom/Meloxaid ) ?

Whilst it can be possible for our Rabbits to pick up on our stress/anxiety, I think your Bunny's problems are likely to be related to his inability to get to his bum to eat his cecotrophs due to his arthritis. So in the first instance I'd get him examined by your Vet again if he has not been seen by him/her for some time.

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About a month ago a rabbit specialist vet put him up from 0.6ml to 0.75ml twice per day Loxicom 1.5mg/ml (Meloxicam) when he went to have his ear checked and I told her I was worried his poops kept going smaller (like worried about statis - had a bad easter sunday - you may remember we spoke on the ear flushing thread) so was scared his arthritis had got worse - he had been doing binkies again after initially put him on painkillers then did stop (he actually doesn't really do many now but is still bouncy). I didn't get to go inside with him but the Technician did say about an extra painkiller etc in the future etc if needs be, when he gave him back to me. I am loathed to dope him up if it's just my anxiety worrying me (this is what I worry about) and the vet said well you know, we can't actually ask him (Fudge bunny) - ie guess work.

He is bouncing around all up and down the sofas indoors and outdoors like there isn't a problem but I will get him checked out by a vet. I see him eating from his bum multiple times a day so I don't think this is entirely the issue, sometimes he looks like he may flop over doing it occasionally whilst not got his complete balance (ie on the sofa) but has done this for years - like I thought his belly was a bit plump (he is very short for a bunny if that makes sense, his half sister Coco was a lot longer and slimmer, but he was always quite plump, just a litter of 2 in his - like it has always been the same, he's just a little round ball that occasionally rolls over because he's not the skinniest if he's not on hard floor). Unless it's also possibly that he gets stiff in the night and seizes up and that's why - like 2 things combined I don't know - my flat is cold (even in the heat it's not overly too warm for him - he won't sleep in the night on any of his beds (will doze in the day on them), even if I move them to his spot - he sleeps against a cold outside wall on foam mats (he would happily sleep on cold laminate and often seeks out the non-soft surfaces but I am worried about sore hocks so for the last year have tried to cushion the majority of my lounge where he lives (decent size) - I tried putting an L shaped squishy foam dog bed against the wall (he liked it in the middle of the room now is not bothered) and he starts getting annoyed trying to move it if I put it in the spot he sleeps - he likes to sleep under a 2 sided box since making him free range in the lounge (about 2 years ago, then Coco passed 1 year ago - I actually don't know what spot they both used to sleep in together).

Everyone tells me I am just being too anxious and there's nothing wrong with him - I mean I read up a lot on rabbits more than my partner, my parents etc, but even the vets don't seem too concerned, so often I think it's me overreacting. I do see him the odd time with his foot outstretched which is not a normal position like he needs to stretch it out, not often and not for long but not something he did when he was a baby.

Like the ear thing the vet said it was fine and had cleared with the cleaner, but I was paranoid AF. I mean I have anxiety but when it comes to Fudge more so especially after Coco's death, I thought I had done everything I could then I realised that I probably killed her with too much sudacrem, but I don't have anxiety that much if it makes sense, like I feel I know my rabbit, although tI do tend to blow things out of portion from what they tell me. But generally other then the recent trip about his ear I have been confirmed correct by the vet in my thoughts about his health - he was so healthy up until 1 year ago when Coco passed.

He has his meds at 10am and 10pm daily, plus I have added the Oxbow joint support to help support him. Any supplements etc for him people suggest I am more than happy to buy.

Leesa said:

About a month ago a rabbit specialist vet put him up from 0.6ml to 0.75ml twice per day Loxicom 1.5mg/ml (Meloxicam) when he went to have his ear checked and I told her I was worried his poops kept going smaller (like worried about statis - had a bad easter sunday - you may remember we spoke on the ear flushing thread) so was scared his arthritis had got worse - he had been doing binkies again after initially put him on painkillers then did stop (he actually doesn't really do many now but is still bouncy). I didn't get to go inside with him but the Technician did say about an extra painkiller etc in the future etc if needs be, when he gave him back to me. I am loathed to dope him up if it's just my anxiety worrying me (this is what I worry about) and the vet said well you know, we can't actually ask him (Fudge bunny) - ie guess work.

He is bouncing around all up and down the sofas indoors and outdoors like there isn't a problem but I will get him checked out by a vet. I see him eating from his bum multiple times a day so I don't think this is entirely the issue, sometimes he looks like he may flop over doing it occasionally whilst not got his complete balance (ie on the sofa) but has done this for years - like I thought his belly was a bit plump (he is very short for a bunny if that makes sense, his half sister Coco was a lot longer and slimmer, but he was always quite plump, just a litter of 2 in his - like it has always been the same, he's just a little round ball that occasionally rolls over because he's not the skinniest if he's not on hard floor). Unless it's also possibly that he gets stiff in the night and seizes up and that's why - like 2 things combined I don't know - my flat is cold (even in the heat it's not overly too warm for him - he won't sleep in the night on any of his beds (will doze in the day on them), even if I move them to his spot - he sleeps against a cold outside wall on foam mats (he would happily sleep on cold laminate and often seeks out the non-soft surfaces but I am worried about sore hocks so for the last year have tried to cushion the majority of my lounge where he lives (decent size) - I tried putting an L shaped squishy foam dog bed against the wall (he liked it in the middle of the room now is not bothered) and he starts getting annoyed trying to move it if I put it in the spot he sleeps - he likes to sleep under a 2 sided box since making him free range in the lounge (about 2 years ago, then Coco passed 1 year ago - I actually don't know what spot they both used to sleep in together).

Everyone tells me I am just being too anxious and there's nothing wrong with him - I mean I read up a lot on rabbits more than my partner, my parents etc, but even the vets don't seem too concerned, so often I think it's me overreacting. I do see him the odd time with his foot outstretched which is not a normal position like he needs to stretch it out, not often and not for long but not something he did when he was a baby.

Like the ear thing the vet said it was fine and had cleared with the cleaner, but I was paranoid AF. I mean I have anxiety but when it comes to Fudge more so especially after Coco's death, I thought I had done everything I could then I realised that I probably killed her with too much sudacrem, but I don't have anxiety that much if it makes sense, like I feel I know my rabbit, although tI do tend to blow things out of portion from what they tell me. But generally other then the recent trip about his ear I have been confirmed correct by the vet in my thoughts about his health - he was so healthy up until 1 year ago when Coco passed.

He has his meds at 10am and 10pm daily, plus I have added the Oxbow joint support to help support him. Any supplements etc for him people suggest I am more than happy to buy.

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If he appears to be really happy within himself and the 'only' issue is the recurrent episodes of having a mucky bum then it may be that it is something that is going to have to be managed as opposed to permanently cured. I would suggest that you request a full blood profile to assess his major organ function, this is always advisable for any Rabbit on long term medication

Before adding any supplements to his diet apart from the one you already give him to try to help with his arthritis I'd wait until he has a blood profile run and also when you can get his GI tract function more settled. Can you give details of his exact diet at the moment ?

Rabbits sometimes can be affected by our stress levels. I remember one day I was due to go to the Dentist and I went in the garden and Monty gave me a very strange look. He detected something different about me! They are sensitive creatures. Does he have a litter tray with hay in it and does he eat lots of hay?

Jack's-Jane said:

If he appears to be really happy within himself and the 'only' issue is the recurrent episodes of having a mucky bum then it may be that it is something that is going to have to be managed as opposed to permanently cured. I would suggest that you request a full blood profile to assess his major organ function, this is always advisable for any Rabbit on long term medication

Before adding any supplements to his diet apart from the one you already give him to try to help with his arthritis I'd wait until he has a blood profile run and also when you can get his GI tract function more settled. Can you give details of his exact diet at the moment ?

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Thanks. He had his blood work done about 6 months ago last and everything was fine then.

Diet right now is timothy hay topped up throughout the day (he loves it fresh and will leave it after a while otherwise) - this seem more like the softer variety though this bail (I think it's 9kg I buy). Plus 1 of the Oxbow Joint Support.

Previously the last few weeks he had also been eating Orchard Grass and Pro-Fibre pellets. With some fresh apple tree branches (leaves when he was fine, no or hardly any leaves when he started getting mucky).

Before he got messy he would have 10 pellets of Science Selective Senior, occasionally half and half with the standard adult if he's not looking plump and he's not mucky (as I have a huge bag left from before when I tried transitioning over to see if that would help, it didn't). He has these about 2-4pm because I found that seemed the best time to avoid getting a mucky bum. Then after that into about 8pm he would have up to 4 types of herbs or vegetables depending on what I had in - mint, coriander, basil, parsley (flat or curly), kale, spring greens (I think they may set him off one time so not so much on these), romaine or little gem (but I cut this right back as the vet said to take him off that), spinach (he's not keen on that so much but will eat a little), cucumber, dandelions, celery, fennel (he loves this). Occasionally if I am cooking with other vegetables like celeriac or swede he would eat a bit of that too.

If it's summer and the grass is long I will cut some for him with scissors, or we may sit out on the grass and he will devour it. I think too much grass may have been the thing that initially started this episode.

I tend to avoid broccoli, sprouts, cauliflower, bok choi as have suspected those have set him off.

For a treat he would have dried herbs/dandelions/plantain/apple leaves with sticks etc that can get in the yellow Woodlands bags from Pets At Home. Hay cubes if I am going out to keep him busy as he loves them, but I think too much of those set him off too. For a treat if I am cooking carrot or having an apple or extremely rarely some other fruit myself he gets a tiny little bit, but only when he's not mucky.

He doesn't have any of the commercial treat type things, I only give him the natural stuff.


He seems really happy otherwise, apart from not getting nice foods at the moment. I managed to get him out of his naughty phase of being aggressive for food. I find he'll sleep more in the day in his night time spot when he's on hay only like he doesn't have as much energy, whereas with pellets and vegetables he only really doses on his bed. But he's been awake since about 3:30pm today bouncing around and eating hay.

tonibun said:

Rabbits sometimes can be affected by our stress levels. I remember one day I was due to go to the Dentist and I went in the garden and Monty gave me a very strange look. He detected something different about me! They are sensitive creatures. Does he have a litter tray with hay in it and does he eat lots of hay?

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Thanks, it could be me. I can't even trim his nails at the moment without freaking out and getting anxiety. He's going to have to go the vet for them to do it as I'm so scared of making him bleed.

He has a litter tray in but no hay in that (too paranoid of the urine on the hay after what a vet told me about EC), instead he has a big plastic box with a load of hay in there. He poops in there but mostly goes to his litter tray to urinate. Right now yes he's eating lots of hay. He's 6.5 years old and never had to have a dental. When I give him more vegetables he does eat less hay though so always trying to get a happy medium.